Gentle giant

[Snowflake]

I've seen countless videos of people getting knocked out by a punch and the person committing the assault keeps punching/kicking in the head. I consider that to warrant using deadly force so it doesn't happen to me. I'll let the courts figure it out and be happy I can still spell my own name and count to ten...

[BStowers023]

Want to see people getting killed with bare hands? Watch World Star

[RedRocket1647545505]

Come to the ICU at Grant. I can show you about 3-4 people a month who either die or are a potato the rest of their lives because someone curb stomped the fuck out of them.

 

And you need to study up on the escalation of force. Clearly you do not understand it, nor do you understand what constitutes a deadly threat.

[HotCarl]

 

Originally Posted by HotCarl View Post

I'm not sure where you read that the prosecutor allowed the defendant to present his defense? Grand Jury's do not usually hear testimony from an individual who may be charged but in this case Officer Wilson gave a 4 hour testimony. If I'm not mistaken he was not required to do so.

 

Also, the explanation Officer Wilson gave for shooting Wilson was because he posed a deadly threat to himself. Assault, attempting to take an officers firearm (in Wilsons testimony and backed by physical evidence), in addition to not obeying an officers commands and "charging" the officer (also backed by physical evidence) is what led Officer Wilson to shoot Michael Brown.

 

By allowing Wilson to testify the prosecutor allowed Wilson the opportunity to present his defenses. So yes, this is exactly what I meant. And it is damn rare.

 

Yup, Wilson said Brown posed a deadly threat because if Brown didn't pose a deadly threat then Wilson committed homicide. What else was he going to say? But I have some trouble understanding how an unarmed teen (even a big teen) was a deadly threat to a trained cop (who was also damn big at 6'4" 215lbs.) who was in a car, and in possession of not just a gun, but a nightstick, a TASER, and pepper spray. I also don't know how you manage to determine that a teen (even a big teen) is a deadly threat before he causes you any injury. I also don't know how a person continues to be a threat from 30 feet away even after they've already been shot once such that you need to shoot them a few more times.

 

Brown was clearly looking for trouble. But police officers are, in theory, supposed to act with more restraint than the average citizen - not less. Yet this big trained officer didn't even want to try to escape in his car, or fight back, or use mace, or his TASER, or his nightstick before deciding he had no choice but to shoot a teenager? That, to me, doesn't make sense.

 

1. Officer wilson did not have a taser at his disposal, so i'm not sure where you are getting your information from?

2. Brown assaulted Wilson while he was in his car. Wilson's pepper spray is on the left side of his duty belt (side closest to brown) and couldn't be deployed without also affecting himself. Wilson's ASP (aka, "nightstick") was located on the back of his duty belt, pinned between himself and the seat while Brown was hitting him. The only course of defense was to use his firearm.

3. Brown assaulted Wison in his police SUV (backed by physical evidence), this is a deadly threat. Again I'm not sure how you can say he isn't or shouldn't continue to be a threat?

4. An officer can not simply "escape in his car". He has a legal duty to stop a threat to the public. If he were to leave and brown assaulted or killed someone else before being taken into custody then the police dept would be held liable.

 

Brown's actions led to his death, that's it. He assaulted a police officer, attempted to take his gun, ran away, then charged at the officer again.

[wagner]

Brown's actions led to his death, that's it. He assaulted a police officer, attempted to take his gun, ran away, then charged at the officer again.

 

Here you go, pretty much the cliff notes of the entire situation.

 

If Brown had been raised in a way where this type of action was okay we would not be talking about this...

 

 

...we would be talking about where Bill Cosby stuck his cock in the 1960's and how no does not mean yes.

[Otis Nice]

But no, I wouldn't say I've "got it" in the sense of agreement. Responding to a non-deadly threat with deadly force is illegal. True self-defense is always proportional to the threat.

 

100% incorrect. That is a sparring session or sporting event, i.e. boxing or MMA. The exact opposite of a self defense situation.

 

When attacked, it is legal and advised to not meet but rather exceed the force being used against you by every military, police, and self defense instructor. The goal is to go home at the end of the day. Not struggle to hope you survive. If attacked, I will do whatever it takes to survive and go home to my wife and son.

 

...then you can Monday morning quarterback...

 

...I would suggest more firearms training.

 

 

Ummm...

 

I do agree with what you said though.

 

Come to the ICU at Grant. I can show you about 3-4 people a month who either die or are a potato the rest of their lives because someone curb stomped the fuck out of them.

 

And you need to study up on the escalation of force. Clearly you do not understand it, nor do you understand what constitutes a deadly threat.

 

QFT

 

1. Officer wilson did not have a taser at his disposal, so i'm not sure where you are getting your information from?

2. Brown assaulted Wilson while he was in his car. Wilson's pepper spray is on the left side of his duty belt (side closest to brown) and couldn't be deployed without also affecting himself. Wilson's ASP (aka, "nightstick") was located on the back of his duty belt, pinned between himself and the seat while Brown was hitting him. The only course of defense was to use his firearm.

3. Brown assaulted Wison in his police SUV (backed by physical evidence), this is a deadly threat. Again I'm not sure how you can say he isn't or shouldn't continue to be a threat?

4. An officer can not simply "escape in his car". He has a legal duty to stop a threat to the public. If he were to leave and brown assaulted or killed someone else before being taken into custody then the police dept would be held liable.

 

Brown's actions led to his death, that's it. He assaulted a police officer, attempted to take his gun, ran away, then charged at the officer again.

 

/thread

[Ben]

Apparently I grossly overestimated the ability of some folks to have a conversation without resorting to ad hominem attacks....

 

Nevertheless, let me try just one more time. This isn't about whether Brown went looking for trouble - he did. It isn't even particularly about Wilson. My comments are designed to ask why you think, as many of you seem to, that police have a right, superior to any other citizen, to deal death when threatened. So that's the question. What do you think? And, then, why?

[Littleguy]

Lol, you overestimate CR.

[Otis Nice]

People have a right to deal death when threatened.

 

That's the answer. "Play stupid games..." Don't threaten people and it's not a problem.

 

Lol, you overestimate CR.

 

This.

[Diamonds]

Apparently I grossly overestimated the ability of some folks to have a conversation without resorting to ad hominem attacks....

 

Nevertheless, let me try just one more time. This isn't about whether Brown went looking for trouble - he did. It isn't even particularly about Wilson. My comments are designed to ask why you think, as many of you seem to, that police have a right, superior to any other citizen, to deal death when threatened. So that's the question. What do you think? And, then, why?

 

Bartender, I'll have two trayvons!!

[wagner]

If you hear it on the internet, its true... Edited December 8, 2014 by Wagner
not worth it

[jeffro]

huge mob of about 500 people marching down high street right now.

[Diamonds]

huge mob of about 500 people marching down high street right now.

 

What?

[spectragod]

huge mob of about 500 people marching down high street right now.

 

Hands up, don't shoot, I can't breath, blah blah blah

[jeffro]

What?

 

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2014/12/08/columbus-ohio-groups-march-in-columbus-to-protest-police-aggression.html

[PRD2BDF]

Well the Ferguson case, I agree with the outcome, he was a thug and aggressive and wouldn't obey etc etc etc but the NYC one, that was bullahit, evidence was ruled a homicide and the police officer used an illegal hold and there were videos.

[V8 Beast]

The officer acted as he felt he needed to. Some people don't agree with it, some do. If you dive deeper you can find worse cases than this all over the place (like listed above). What people are not saying is that there are millions of officers that do make the right decisions everyday. In normal lines of work a mistake means someone gets mustard on a plain burger or some customers bill may be high. When officers make mistakes people can die... it's part of the job. When you are in a situation that's escalating you are going to have to make a fast decision. They felt his decision was the right one.

 

For those looking for fault in our police force think about this. It's like I tell my employees at work... When you look that closely at anyone, no one looks good. If you go searching for instances of where police are being dicks and abusing their power you will find many videos and even more documented reports. The same way that if you look through my thousands of videos you might find some fat girl on giraffe porn. It doesn't mean all I watch is fat girl on giraffe porn. I think that's the problem now is people are searching for stuff to make it seem like all cops are bad to justify how they feel. It's not making anything better.

[spectragod]

Well the Ferguson case, I agree with the outcome, he was a thug and aggressive and wouldn't obey etc etc etc but the NYC one, that was bullahit, evidence was ruled a homicide and the police officer used an illegal hold and there were videos.

 

It's called lateral vascular neck restraint or LVNR, it is not a choke hold, it's not illegal, it is used to control someone by rendering them unconscious, not from lack of air, but lack of blood flow to the brain(assuming they have one). There are always videos, how about the black cop that killed a white guy, or the black cop that killed another black guy, where are those videos, the out cry,

The riots, the bullshit foot stomping.

 

Stop race baiting and focus on the problem at hand, the people that are out of control, thinking fighting with the police is a good thing, because "it's their right".

 

I personally think we should give all law enforcement across the United states 30 days off, meaning no police protection for anyone. I would probably also just go ahead and shut the prisons down too, we can have all the prisoners turn themselves back in in 30 days, if this sounds good, we can get a petition together and maybe make it happen, sound good?

 

The officer acted as he felt he needed to. Some people don't agree with it, some do. If you dive deeper you can find worse cases than this all over the place (like listed above). What people are not saying is that there are millions of officers that do make the right decisions everyday. In normal lines of work a mistake means someone gets mustard on a plain burger or some customers bill may be high. When officers make mistakes people can die... it's part of the job. When you are in a situation that's escalating you are going to have to make a fast decision. They felt his decision was the right one.

 

For those looking for fault in our police force think about this. It's like I tell my employees at work... When you look that closely at anyone, no one looks good. If you go searching for instances of where police are being dicks and abusing their power you will find many videos and even more documented reports. The same way that if you look through my thousands of videos you might find some fat girl on giraffe porn. It doesn't mean all I watch is fat girl on giraffe porn. I think that's the problem now is people are searching for stuff to make it seem like all cops are bad to justify how they feel. It's not making anything better.

 

^^^1,000,000%^^^ correct, people are quick to judge, they need not look any further than themselves.

[Rustlestiltskin]

 

I personally think we should give all law enforcement across the United states 30 days off, meaning no police protection for anyone. I would probably also just go ahead and shut the prisons down too, we can have all the prisoners turn themselves back in in 30 days, if this sounds good, we can get a petition together and maybe make it happen, sound good?

 

This.

If you guys want to cry and bitch about the way police have to handle criminals then we can propose a "citizen self protection month" where what was said above can come true and you'll have to protect your own ass for 30 days.

[Snowflake]

 

I personally think we should give all law enforcement across the United states 30 days off, meaning no police protection for anyone. I would probably also just go ahead and shut the prisons down too, we can have all the prisoners turn themselves back in in 30 days, if this sounds good, we can get a petition together and maybe make it happen, sound good?

 

.

 

I hate to say it but this is the dumbest shit I've read in a long time. I survive daily without police protection. Not everybody needs you guys to survive in this crazy world...

[buelliganx1]

I hate to say it but this is the dumbest shit I've read in a long time. I survive daily without police protection. Not everybody needs you guys to survive in this crazy world...

 

And thats probably the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. Who do you think makes the streets safe enough that you can survive without a constant daily battle for your existence.

[o0n8]

so 30 days of this?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/K0LLaybEuzA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Turbs3000]

I personally think we should give all law enforcement across the United states 30 days off, meaning no police protection for anyone. I would probably also just go ahead and shut the prisons down too, we can have all the prisoners turn themselves back in in 30 days, if this sounds good, we can get a petition together and maybe make it happen, sound good?

I think one of the big pieces here is that we are talking conservatively about what, 15% of the population, max who have any real hate for the police. Also, I'd argue it would be only a few percent. The only difference is the publicity they are given at this given time. The 'we will show them' mentality towards the 100% because of the few doesn't make much sense. However I do understand the officer outrage when their backs are pinned against the wall like they currently are.

 

I think the only viable point I have heard someone make is that they wish officers turned in the bad apples in their department. Now, obviously it's not as simple as that and maybe those things already happen but the public looks at situations like Beavercreek where "supposedly" other officers believe him to be a major liability well before the shooting. coupled with the media always portraying officers as not ever losing their jobs just moved to desk duty and so forth doesn't sit well with the public, regardless of if that's true or not.

[Snowflake]

And thats probably the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. Who do you think makes the streets safe enough that you can survive without a constant daily battle for your existence.

 

I work in an area of the country where police are almost nonexistent and me and the other 50,000 people here seem to get along fine. Scared little bitches are the ones that seem to need police around.

[jeffro]

I work in an area of the country where police are almost nonexistent and me and the other 50,000 people here seem to get along fine. Scared little bitches are the ones that seem to need police around.

 

Obviously you have never lived in section 8 housing. I did for a 18 months while in college and the times i saw people breaking into cars or residences was crazy.