Anyone have experience with Cheby Volts???

[BigOxley]

Give me some Pros and Cons as a Daily Driver. I found a 2014 Volt with lower miles that looks like a decent deal. I want to eventually get into a Tesla but probably going to wait until the Model III comes out in 2017. I figured the Volt will give me some experience on a plug-in before then.

 

I have an STI and Wrangler for other cars, this will be the 3rd.

[aussiek2000]

We have only sold 2 I believe but have serviced a couple dozen. Nothing major I can think of that has been wrong. Just small stuff here and there. if under 36k it'll have full warranty if you do find anything.

[TTQ B4U]

PM Mallard. I think he bought a nice one for his wife.

[Geeto67]

My father has owned 2 of them now. He got the First one delivered to NY when they first came out - and it was a pilot car. He didn't want to bank on the tech so he leased it (he regrets it because the leasing company wouldn't do a buy back), so his second one he just went out and bought.

 

He loves it an maybe fills the tank once every two months. Here are his driving conditions: he charges it both when he gets home and when he gets to work. His commute is 20 miles each way so he is almost always in electric mode and usually only drops into running the gas engine when he runs errands or takes the car on a 100 mile road trip. He has had 0 problems with either car though he got pissed when a software upgrade showed he was getting less MPG than before (he's borderline hyper-miling).

 

the one thing you will like more about it than the Tesla - you can take it on a road trip. Seriously if you wanted to drive to Rochester right now and not pay all that much for gas it will do the trick. The Tesla? she be stuck in c-bus. It's a real car that happens to be a plug in hybrid. It's not a status symbol toy that makes you look environmentally friendly despite e-car battery manufacturing process being a more dirty process than roadside sex with a $10 Italian prostitute.

 

So here are the downsides:

 

- If you drive it like a normal car you really won't see any benefits. Well you'll see some benefits but not as great as you would if you change your driving style all together. The car is a little nanny about getting you to do this with all sorts of different displays and diagrams that turn warning colors for when you mash the gas or brake. I get that it can't be helped sometimes but after a month you will find yourself hesitating to hit the brake as much because you don't want the leafy green ball to turn yellow (at least that is how it was when I borrowed it for three weeks).

 

Pedestrians can't hear you. At all. Maybe not an ohio problem per se since my dad lives on Long Island and works in NYC, but at least once a day someone steps in front of him not looking and he has to dive for the brakes hard. He's 72, and while he raced mazda cup for an event at Laguna Seca when he was 70 we all still think it's only a matter of time before the giant black oversized golf cart mows someone over at 10mph because they stepped in front of it while looking at their iphone, and dad couldn't get to the brake fast enough.

 

The keyless car thing pisses me of a little, but that is just me. I don't like a transmitter fob because I do stupid things like leave it in a cup holder and walk away. That's the other thing, this thing is quick to auto lock, but I think that is a setting you can adjust. My dad likes it setup so if you sneeze within 10 feet of the car it locks itself.

 

It's a heavy car and it feels like it. Also the ABS - not great. My father last winter slid into a snowbank with the car at very slow speed. Granted it was icy, but my mother's BMW 328xi manual didn't have a single issue in the same spot.

[BigOxley]

Yeah, I found one with 14k miles. Probably not Certified but I'll check.

 

 

My father has owned 2 of them now. He got the First one delivered to NY when they first came out - and it was a pilot car. He didn't want to bank on the tech so he leased it (he regrets it because the leasing company wouldn't do a buy back), so his second one he just went out and bought.

 

He loves it an maybe fills the tank once every two months. Here are his driving conditions: he charges it both when he gets home and when he gets to work. His commute is 20 miles each way so he is almost always in electric mode and usually only drops into running the gas engine when he runs errands or takes the car on a 100 mile road trip. He has had 0 problems with either car though he got pissed when a software upgrade showed he was getting less MPG than before (he's borderline hyper-miling).

 

the one thing you will like more about it than the Tesla - you can take it on a road trip. Seriously if you wanted to drive to Rochester right now and not pay all that much for gas it will do the trick. The Tesla? she be stuck in c-bus. It's a real car that happens to be a plug in hybrid. It's not a status symbol toy that makes you look environmentally friendly despite e-car battery manufacturing process being a more dirty process than roadside sex with a $10 Italian prostitute.

 

So here are the downsides:

 

- If you drive it like a normal car you really won't see any benefits. Well you'll see some benefits but not as great as you would if you change your driving style all together. The car is a little nanny about getting you to do this with all sorts of different displays and diagrams that turn warning colors for when you mash the gas or brake. I get that it can't be helped sometimes but after a month you will find yourself hesitating to hit the brake as much because you don't want the leafy green ball to turn yellow (at least that is how it was when I borrowed it for three weeks).

 

Pedestrians can't hear you. At all. Maybe not an ohio problem per se since my dad lives on Long Island and works in NYC, but at least once a day someone steps in front of him not looking and he has to dive for the brakes hard. He's 72, and while he raced mazda cup for an event at Laguna Seca when he was 70 we all still think it's only a matter of time before the giant black oversized golf cart mows someone over at 10mph because they stepped in front of it while looking at their iphone, and dad couldn't get to the brake fast enough.

 

The keyless car thing pisses me of a little, but that is just me. I don't like a transmitter fob because I do stupid things like leave it in a cup holder and walk away. That's the other thing, this thing is quick to auto lock, but I think that is a setting you can adjust. My dad likes it setup so if you sneeze within 10 feet of the car it locks itself.

 

It's a heavy car and it feels like it. Also the ABS - not great. My father last winter slid into a snowbank with the car at very slow speed. Granted it was icy, but my mother's BMW 328xi manual didn't have a single issue in the same spot.

 

 

Thanks, that's a lot of good info

[El Karacho1647545492]

If you plan to drive it forever, buy it. If you want to upgrade in a few years, lease. I see no reason to buy if you don't plan to drive the wheels off it, EV/Hyb/Plug-in Hybrid values are really tough to guess due to gov't incentives and a shaky, fickle market that LOVES the nextest-bestest thing and forgets about the latest technology in a heartbeat.

 

Ask anyone who bought a Nissan Leaf early on, in 2013 they dropped the MSRP by $6700. They did create a new trim level but the used market didn't care, values for 2012 and 2011 Leafs took a shit and a lot of people, even with the gov't tax credit, were in a huge depreciation hole.

[BigOxley]

If you plan to drive it forever, buy it. If you want to upgrade in a few years, lease. I see no reason to buy if you don't plan to drive the wheels off it, EV/Hyb/Plug-in Hybrid values are really tough to guess due to gov't incentives and a shaky, fickle market that LOVES the nextest-bestest thing and forgets about the latest technology in a heartbeat.

 

Ask anyone who bought a Nissan Leaf early on, in 2013 they dropped the MSRP by $6700. They did create a new trim level but the used market didn't care, values for 2012 and 2011 Leafs took a shit and a lot of people, even with the gov't tax credit, were in a huge depreciation hole.

 

 

I don't plan on keeping it forever. Found a new 2014 at Dave Gill that was still showing an *October Only* lease special, but it was a 10000/year mile allowance.

[Orion]

Thats good info. A+ for thread so far.

[BigOxley]

Anyone know about the $7500 tax credit????

 

The way I read it..... the $7500 goes to your taxes if you owe.

 

So, if you owe $8500 for 2014, you would only owe $1000 once the credit is applied.

 

But if you owe $6500, you would owe nothing once the credit was applied (you don't get $1000 back)

 

I usually get about $800-$1000 from my refund, mainly due to interest paid to my mortgage. So, would I get nothing from the credit?

[cstmg8]

Anyone know about the $7500 tax credit????

 

The way I read it..... the $7500 goes to your taxes if you owe.

 

So, if you owe $8500 for 2014, you would only owe $1000 once the credit is applied.

 

But if you owe $6500, you would owe nothing once the credit was applied (you don't get $1000 back)

 

I usually get about $800-$1000 from my refund, mainly due to interest paid to my mortgage. So, would I get nothing from the credit?

IF that is the case, it sounds like you should buy after the first of the year and change your tax status next year to have less withheld.

[01WS6]

Are you interested in a 2012 with 40k miles?

[Geeto67]

Anyone know about the $7500 tax credit????

 

The way I read it..... the $7500 goes to your taxes if you owe.

 

So, if you owe $8500 for 2014, you would only owe $1000 once the credit is applied.

 

But if you owe $6500, you would owe nothing once the credit was applied (you don't get $1000 back)

 

I usually get about $800-$1000 from my refund, mainly due to interest paid to my mortgage. So, would I get nothing from the credit?

 

Pretty sure it only applies to new cars (first registered owner). Don't think Used cars are eligible.

 

By the way, something I left out before, Because all the weight is low in the chassis the car autocrosses like a champ. Completely neutral. It will turn your recorded gas mileage rating to crap though.

[Orion]

These are fwd, correct? What are they rated at, hp wise?

[Cordell]

I have driven and worked on them, and I think they're really neat cars. If you get one with the mindset that its not going to be like anything else I think you'd love it. If you're going to drive it in winter I'd definitely get heated seats as the heater isn't great even in comfort mode. Everything is set up for efficency so expect the displays and driving modes to reflect that. Personally I like them.

[Jewtoys]

Pretty sure it only applies to new cars (first registered owner). Don't think Used cars are eligible.

 

By the way, something I left out before, Because all the weight is low in the chassis the car autocrosses like a champ. Completely neutral. It will turn your recorded gas mileage rating to crap though.

 

Yeah I've also heard with a good set of tires, they actually handle incredibly well.

 

Cool cars

[BigOxley]

Yeah, tax credit question was towards a new volt.

 

Looking for one under 20k miles if I go used

[Geeto67]

These are fwd, correct? What are they rated at, hp wise?

 

correct. about 150 hp from the electric motors and 84 from the gas (although the two may never be supplying max HP to the wheels at the same time the gas engine does assist over 35mph), 3800lb curb weight. A barn burner it is not.

 

but here are the important parts: 273 ft/lbs of torque at 0 rpm, and the majority of the weight of the car is lower than the top of the tires and sits almost dead center of the car. The car does still bias 60/40 Front/rear.

 

For something short course like an auto-x or an 1/8th mile drag race the volt is well suited because it is not carrying a lot of speed, don't need a top end charge, and instant torque means a hard drive out of the corners each time. For something like a 1/4 drag race or a road course that is over a mile, then the car has no top end charge at all and it is going to feel like the worst nissan altima rental car you've ever driven.

 

BTW, 2011 volts won't let you disable traction control, only 2012 and newer cars. So if you want to do a smokey rolling burnout (which a volt will do) or run it on a dyno you need to look for a mid-2012 built car or newer.

 

And yes there are people that hack/modify the volt. This is mostly done with software tuning.

[01WS6]

Yeah, tax credit question was towards a new volt.

 

Looking for one under 20k miles if I go used

 

Well I have one that's why I asked if you decide if you want one with little more mileage. And no tax credit all that ran out years ago. I can tell you everything you need to know/be aware of in these cars.

[Mallard]

A lot of good info in this thread. We have been happy with ours, but had a few problems covered under warranty. There are some really good lease deals out there, but also be aware that my insurance went up $60/month, so you may want to check rates. We have a 2012, but it looks like in 2013 they added an armrest in the rear, which may be nice for people in the back. However there may not be that much leg room for them. We have two child seats in the back now and we think we need something bigger if it's hauling the whole family.

 

You'll want heated seats, and we don't have a back up camera, but it would be really nice to have.

 

I don't find the dash as distracting as the earlier poster, but they are right, the ABS SUCKS on this car. I always drive the car in "L" because you can 1-foot drive more often and I like the 'engine braking' feeling when I take my foot off the gas. If you are very lightly touching the brakes and you hit a small bump you will lose all deceleration. It's very unnerving.

 

Even so, we like the car and my wife wants another when her lease is up in April, but we don't think it's big enough for us anymore.

 

Let me know if you have any specific questions that haven't already been answered.

[Trouble Maker]

Anyone know about the $7500 tax credit????

 

The way I read it..... the $7500 goes to your taxes if you owe.

 

So, if you owe $8500 for 2014, you would only owe $1000 once the credit is applied.

 

But if you owe $6500, you would owe nothing once the credit was applied (you don't get $1000 back)

 

I usually get about $800-$1000 from my refund, mainly due to interest paid to my mortgage. So, would I get nothing from the credit?

 

I am not an accountant

 

Credits take off of what you owe on taxes for the year, regardless of what you had withheld.

 

I believe certain credits can only decrease your tax liability (what you owe) to $0. I also believe this is one of them.

 

So let's day you made $50k and what you should pay totally for the year $6500. You prepaid, had withheld $5500. You would normally owe $1k at filing but your $7500 credit drops what you owe to $0 so you would get back the $5500 you already paid.

 

I believe other things like child tax credits you get no matter how much you paid, or else they would be pointless since you only get them if you make so little you don't owe much in taxes anyways.

[Orion]

So, why is it that the brakes seem to suck? Does it have to do with the "recharging" action on them?

[thorne]

when i looked at my SHO I also looked at a volt. It was a really neat car and had I not really wanted the bigger ride feel I would have gotten it.

[Trouble Maker]

So, why is it that the brakes seem to suck? Does it have to do with the "recharging" action on them?

 

Up until now most (maybe all?) hybrids cancel regen during an ABS event because it's more difficult to control the 2 systems in concert. Also due to the infrequency of an ABS event there is essentially 0 benefit the customer and maybe even more importantly there is no benefit to the fuel economy ratings. But you can do some really cool things controlling wheel slip with the electric motors that's more difficult/impossible to do with an ICE motor or conventional brakes so it is, or will start to show up in cars.

 

The Volt is a few years old now so I imagine if falls into the former category.

So it's probably mostly just crappy (low rolling resistance) tires and poor tuning.

In the case Phil cited it's probably an issue with the fact that if does cancel regen, but the brake by wire system isn't correctly increasing conventional brake pressure to properly compensate. In a light braking event, if it was doing all of the vehicle braking by regen and if cancelled it due to an ABS event, but didn't increase the conventional brake pressure the decelration would go to 0. I'm hoping and sure he will chime in since he's felt it and I know he can tell the difference between the 2 situations and I have not actually driven the car.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Trouble Maker

[Cordell]

So, why is it that the brakes seem to suck? Does it have to do with the "recharging" action on them?

 

I could try to sound smart and remember specifially what was described in the Volt training, but it's just easier to put it in laymens terms. Basically when you step on the brakes, the car doesn't apply the service brakes unless you are trying to stop fast, under most initial braking the drive motor becomes a generator and slows the car, hence regenerative braking. So there are times where they are certainly not confidence inspiring. The ABS system is very complicated, much more then a normal car, and I'm not going to sit here and claim to be an expert just because I've done the training once, I haven't had to work on the ABS yet. Think of the ABS module as actually absorbing your pedal pressure so regeneration can occur, this can have some effects, but push harder and your pedal pressure will still go to the brakes.

 

 

While I'm going on about the car, what I find really cool is the transmission because that's where all the magic happens. There are 2 motor/generators in the trans, these motors are not the same size, the one in front (closest to the engine) is primarily the generator, and the second (closest to the final drive) is primarily the drive motor. This is how the car spends most of it's time, and is the first of 4 drive modes. When slowing both are generators, when accelerating hard both are drive motors, and if the battery is close to being dead or there are faults the engine can be locked in to help drive the car. However if the drive motors cannot function the engine will not drive the car. The connections between the 2 motor/generators and the internal combustion engine (ICE) within the trans are the key to making it all work, basically clutches and planetary sets similar to what would be in a normal automatic.

 

The car has multiple control modules in addition to the typical Engine control module, and Transmission control module arrangement. Like the Hybrid Powertrain control module 1 and 2 that control different aspects of the transmission and drive motor functions, the battery energy module that monitors the battery and communcates it's condition with everything else, or the accessory DC power module which recharges the 12 volt battery and provides power to all the other modules and accessories because they still run on 12 volts.

 

I also find it interesting that the car utilizes 3 cooling systems, 1 for the engine, 1 for the battery, and 1 for the electronics. The cabin is heated by the 2 stage engine cooling system, when the engine doesn't run there is a bypass valve, auxilary pump, and high voltage heater that are part of that system.

 

Okay I'm done with my info diarrhea, any questions? Like I said earlier it's a neat car, but not like driving a normal car at all.

[Mallard]

Essentially what they said is correct about the issue I have experienced. In hybrids the brake controller is blending regen with friction braking, so stepping on the pedal isn't necessarily putting pressure in your calipers. It is building master cylinder pressure though.

 

However, as I said, I drive with the shifter in L all the time because I like to one-foot drive as much as possible and I feel they let the car coast too much when you release the "gas pedal" using D, which may make matters worse. In this situation I have a fair amount of regen causing a fair amount of deceleration when I remove my foot from the gas with zero pressure in the master cylinder. When I put my foot on the brake lightly I'm probably only building 5 bar or less of brake pressure. If I hit a bump in this condition (could be as small as a crack in the pavement where there is a height difference) the regen will immediately exit and brake pressure may dump. Regen was doing a majority of braking so now I'm coasting. Master cylinder pressure was low so ABS is increasing pressure very slowly (what do you think it's mu estimation is if the wheels slipped at 5 bar of brake pressure?). This is all conjecture on my part. I have no idea if that's what's actually happens inside this shitty TRW ECU.

 

The bottom line is, the ABS is too sensitive over bumps, and too slow to detect high mu after it does enter ABS. There may a good reason that they tuned it this way, but I honestly have no idea.