zeitgeist57 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) This morning, I ordered some parts from RockAuto for the BMW to spruce up Buzzbomb a bit. This thing runs like a top, so I hardly ever pop the hood. Thought to check the serpentine belts to see if they need replacing. While under the hood, the engine coolant looked low in the radiator expansion tank. I filled it up. Then, I realized coolant was at the "cold-temp" mark for the tank; it wasn't low on coolant! I get my siphon pump and it breaks in my hands. I get the bright idea to start it up and let it run, so the coolant will want to escape the tank once I crack the cap. It gets up to operating temp and I crack the expansion tank to coat my driveway with coolant. Let it gush and bubble a bit, then tighten it down. Get in, drive up to Muirfield for a business meeting. Going up 33, I look down and see the temp gauge is pegged HOT. I'm shocked and I pull over, shut it down. Plenty of coolant in the tank? Must be a glitch. I keep driving up to Dublin. At 33 and Emerald Parkway, I coast to the light and the engine stalls. I pop the clutch in gear and it fires right up...drive into the vet hospital and it's clattering like crazy and stalls immediately. I crack the expansion cap and it bubbles insanely. Car smells hot. I freak out and call Sean (Crossle), send him a text. Field a couple of work calls on my cell for a few minutes. Figure I'm f**ked, and I NEED to be at this client meeting at 9:30, I go for broke and start it up. RUNS PERFECTLY. No knocking. I cautiously but happily drive down Brand Rd, through the roundabouts. Temp gauge pegs again, engine starts knocking like crazy. I pull into the clients office, kill the engine....I'm concerned, but put on my gameface. Come out, and it starts up but sounds like it's firing on one cylinder. Dies. I crack the expansion tank and some really heavy bubbling comes through the tank. Smooths out. I try starting it again and it fires up smoothly. I drive back home to swap it with the V, and it's running like a top. Even better than it was before...that knocking must've blown some carbon out of the intake. End up driving it to a lunch meeting, then downtown. Absolutely no problems. THINGS I'M FIGURING OUT: - When I overfilled the system and let it run for 10-15 minutes and relieved pressure, did the coolant superheat or something? Clearly, I somehow introduced air into the system. - Air did clearly cause one of the coolant temp sensors to wig out, pulling timing and causing it to stall. - I had to bleed/burp the coolant cap several times to get the air out of the system, and now it's running fine. I seriously was freaking out, figuring my LS-swap plans were here way before my time/budget were ready. Any thoughts on what had happened? Edited May 8, 2015 by zeitgeist57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90G60 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Sounds like it's time to unload it before it becomes a drain on your wallet! Let me know, I can show and give you the peice of mind you crave. Sorry don't have anything on your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwohio Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude! What did you do?! If you 'pegged' it multiple times, I'm sorry to say but you may be lucky if you avoid a headgasket repair. When you overfill like that you are forcing more pressure on the system than it needs (E36's have a 30 bar system vs 15 bar for most cars) and you probably introduced air into the block somewhere. The PROPER bleeding method is with the bleeder screw NOT the expansion tank cap....come on, Clay, you know better! Take the car home (maybe even have it towed) Let it get cold Jack up front end Start car and just let idle Turn on heat to full blast wait for Tstat to open bleed through BLEEDER SCREW multiple times until no more bubbles come out and pray you didn't fuck your head gasket somewhere...... Text me if you want too..... http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/attachments/3-series-e36/29088d1271904208-1996-318i-radiator-how-bleed-bleedscrewtank.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Forgive me, Kale, for I have sinned. I couldn't even tell you where the bleeder screw is on this thing. I'm assuming it's the large plastic daddy on top of the radiator. [EDIT: Yup, that's what I thought] In all seriousness, I didn't think adding MORE coolant could've created an air-bubble situation! It's chilling in the parking garage now...will see what a full temperature cycle does for it. I was HURRIED and WASN'T THINKING this morning when I tried to fix a problem that didn't exist in the first place! :dumb: Edited May 8, 2015 by zeitgeist57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 If it boiled up out of the cap it could have introduced air pockets as that bleeder is suppose to be the highest point for it to purge air out. The top of the cap is higher than that point. Like said I'd let it cool all the way down top it off if needed. Run it to operating temp at idle and crack the bleeder with a screw driver until a slow steady stream comes out. Let it cool down and then top off as needed and you should hopefully be good to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Also the cap keeps pressure onto the system changing boiling points of the coolant. Without that pressure it could have also boiled somewhere inside the system and added even more air deeper throughout the engine etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 8, 2015 Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 clay, are you having a driveway drinking night this weekend? We can make it a mission to check out the car. It sounds to me like you got air in the system - same thing happened to me in my E30 vert but we can check it out. Also if you need help picking it up I can tag along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted May 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2015 Kerry, that sounds like a great idea. FWIW, the car is with me downtown, so unless something CATASTROPHIC happened in the last few hours it should run all the way home. Thanks for the offer to pick it up, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwohio Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Kerry came by on Friday, and we started up the BMW to get it up to temp. The coolant temp gauge cluster was on the fritz (common problem, solder issue on the instrument panel circuit board) but there were definitely some air pockets in the block until it got hot, then started going for the upper range. The whole time, bleeder valve on the radiator was cracked, BOTH hoses were air-temp (not hot). Sean (Crossle) and I talked at Polaris over the weekend...as I was planning on doing already, he advised that thermostat and waterpump may be issues as well. I had an awesome but busy weekend; did some parts shopping and have a cart filled on RockAuto (after cross-referencing Bavauto, Pelican, and Amazon) and I just have to buy them. Wife is going out of town Wednesday, so it's going to be tough to get work done this week during the evenings. I do appreciate the M42B18...in an engine bay designed for 6-cyls, it's stupid simple to work on the rotating assembly of this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 I will let clay describe it in detail but I went over to Clay's house to check it out. It appears that the thermostat is stuck in the closed position as the upper radiator hose was not pressurizing with any coolant, even well into the red zone. Also the gauge cluster in his car has the usual solder separation so it isn't always giving a solid reading. The coolant is def heating up and there may be some air bubbles stuck in the system, but the coolant is not circulating at anything more than a trickle (weep hole in the T-stat). I recommended to him that since T-stats are cheap and easy to do on the M42 that we start with that but don't be surprised if we have to do a water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwohio Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks for the updates. Glad you hear you have a plan in place. Don't forget to use distilled water when mixing your 50/50 BMW coolant :thumbup: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Wife is going out of town Wednesday, so it's going to be tough to get work done this week during the evenings. We can do another weekend wrench session after the kids go to bed. We can even test the old T-stat using a pot of boiling water on the stove to make sure that it really is a stuck t-stat and not something more sinister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS69 Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Keep us posted on this.... My 325 had just the expansion tank and hoses replaced just before we bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted May 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Well, it's been a hectic week but I spent a good amount of late nights out in the garage. I swapped the thermostat and waterpump out...refilled with distiller water. Tried bleeding several times, but still got really hot. I tried squeezing the rad hoses and that did get some air bled out; at one point the thermostat clearly opened and the electric fan kicked on. It's good that I replaced the waterpump and thermostat, but ultimately i think it was just - and still is - air bubbles in the system I need to work out. My neighbor has a pretty big slope to their driveway...will be there tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, after many tries with HVAC blowing out cold air and the temp gauge getting way too hot, I found this following technique online...It worked so well, I copypasta'd it. May anyone down the road with a similar issue have as good luck with this knowledge as I did. "Cutting the story short, what worked was a combination of a few methods. I elevated the front of the car about 6 inches. Removed the radiator cap and bleed screw. Turned the ignition ON (but didn't start) and set the heater temperature 90F (max), left the ignition ON (but not sure that mattered). Filled the integral coolant resevoir with 50/50 mix until it was all the way full to the top. Then here's the critical part that worked. Removed the upper radiator hose at the radiator end (THANK YOU whoever suggested that). As soon as I loosened the clamp and cracked the seal, the coolant level dropped dramatically. I added more coolant (50/50) slowly into the upturned upper radiator hose for next 10 minutes until it simply flowed out the upper radiator open port, (and coolant resevoir was also completely full simultaneously). Then put the bleed screw back, radiator cap, upper radiator hose, snugged all. Started the engine, revved to about 1500 rpm, heater fan blowing, warm air started coming out in about 2 minutes (that's the key to knowing it is bled). Then idled (and revved) for nearly 10 minutes to make sure it didn't overheat AND that heat continued to blow out the heater vents even at idle. All was well, no more problems." http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...olved-E36-1996 Thanks to everyone who helped me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwohio Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Interesting sequence. Didn't you have to bleed out a bunch of fluid after that point? Glad you got it figured out :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I still think your T-stat was shot, based solely on the fact that the vents were blowing hot air and the car was overheating and system was not circulating as well as it should have been, even with the bleeder open. Anyway, glad to hear the car is back on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 RIP HEADGASKET I worked from home this morning, and went to fire up the BMW to drive downtown. Crank it for a half rotation and it siezes. "Uh oh...feels like hydrolock", I think. Crack the 1st, 2nd sparkplugs...dry. Crack the 3rd and it's wet. Take a sniff and it smells like coolant. :no::fuuuu: Crank the starter with the plug out and it burps the coolant over the fender. Put in the sparkplug and it fires right up. Let it sit for a bit...goes up to operating temp... A few minutes into this and I realize there obviously shouldn't have been f**king coolant in the cylinder to begin with. Once the engine gets up to temp, I crank the heater. No heat whatsoever...air bubbles/no coolant pressure in heater core. :no: I shut'er down and text some friends that I'm fuxored. Thankfully, no water in the oil and the oil level/smell is fine. Wife is super-happy that I kilt it ded. Looking at doing a HG myself. Glad it's the summertime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmwohio Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 You'll have to check that baby for warpage.....because based on this thread, I will almost guarantee you that it needs tanked and decked. Might as well do valve spring retainers and keepers while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yup. I'd welcome a shop that will do the head work. I used Mike @ M&M for my truck back in 2012, but not sure of his BMW abilities... Admittedly, I feel dumb that this damage was self-inflicted, but I'm not shying away from sharing my McSteaks on CR. I'm waiting for some quotes on the work, but looks like parts are pretty cheap (HG kit, torque-to-yield head bolts, etc) for this jerb. Inclined to do everything myself aside from the headwork of course. I do love the idea of an engine swap, but realistically I need to get this thing rollin' again soon...it may be going back down to FL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Bastard Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 I believe there may be a special tool you need to hold the cams while you are working on it. Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeesammy Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 RIP HEADGASKET I believe there may be a special tool you need to hold the cams while you are working on it. Good luck with it. :confused: If he is pulling the head for the HG the cam's will need to come out for the head to go out, even if he was to leave them in TDC won't matter even if the engine is interference as it should have the belt/chain tension loose and the cams shouldn't be spun in either direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 :confused: If he is pulling the head for the HG the cam's will need to come out for the head to go out, even if he was to leave them in TDC won't matter even if the engine is interference as it should have the belt/chain tension loose and the cams shouldn't be spun in either direction. The Cams do not need to come out to service an M42 engine. The head bolts are designed to be accessed with a 3/8" torx and an extension. The only time the cams would need to come out to remove the head are when you drop a bolt or a washer into the cam valley. Re-timing them is a little tricky though since 1) the valve spring pressure will move the cams once you release the timing chain tension and also because the engine sits at an angle in the engine bay. M42 head gaskets pop often and there are a million topics of it on the forums. Here is a write up Clay that I thought might help you mentally walk through it. You are welcome to my bentely manual but I caution you it is for an E30 so it covers the pre 1992 M42 engine which is slightly different. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=443336 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 also I haven't tried it yet but here is a link to a PDF of the bentley manual for E36's: http://www.bimmerwerkz.com/forum/3-series-e36/bmw-e36-bentley-service-manual-pdf-67601.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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