Draco-REX Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 The engine is out. The Carnage: Some Disassembly Acquired It took a big bite out of the head along with nibbles here and there. The lifter hiding in shame I'm blaming this guy, and you'll see why later. There was scarring along the side of the lifter, but I can't be sure if it was the cause or result of the failure. The home of the lifter It's difficult to see, but there is damage around the lip of the hole. Dun-dun-DAA! The Rocker Note the pin, while starting to walk, is still in place. The roller spins freely too. I have two theories. 1. The lifter failed somehow. Either it somehow wasn't supplied oil (there are no other signs of oil starvation in the head) or it somehow bound up in its seat. This let it retract into the head far enough to let the rocker come free. 2. The walking pin in the rocker allowed the roller to bind up and overheat, locking the roller. But the roller isn't discolored like it would be if it overheated, and the cam doesn't show signs of that it was grinding against a stuck roller. I'm leaning towards #1, a lifter failure of some sort, as the cause. The question now becomes. How do we prevent this from happening again? And is it worth doing, or would it be more practical to just get a replacement head and hope it doesn't happen again? I love this car, and the last weekend I had it it was brilliant. But I wonder if an outside observer would think it unwise to stick with this car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Cough lsx swap cough is how you fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I think anything other than the FA20 would be a good fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I'm being told on FT86Club that the valve springs are considered too weak and that is the cause of failures like this. If so, stronger springs are all that's needed to prevent this from happening again. The thing is, the engine was far from being under stress when this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Cough lsx swap cough is how you fix it I think anything other than the FA20 would be a good fix. While Vorshlag is working on one of their LS swap kits for the BRZ/FR-S, I think a Vette would be a better choice if I were to consider that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Its disappointing to see that from Subaru. If you love the car I would fix it though. I had an 06 STi that the oil pickup failed on and I sold it as a roller. I regretted it almost immediately, so I ended up buying an 04 STi. :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I'm being told on FT86Club that the valve springs are considered too weak and that is the cause of failures like this. If so, stronger springs are all that's needed to prevent this from happening again. The thing is, the engine was far from being under stress when this happened. This was my first thought, allowing the valve to float and give it room. Odd that the engine wasn't under hard load though, maybe it came loose and fell all the way out later. Hard to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruizin01 Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 sucks to see that. if it was my car I'd get a head and some springs and hit the restart button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 sucks to see that. if it was my car I'd get a head and some springs and hit the restart button. That's the plan. Used head, aftermarket springs, and a handful of new rockers to cherry pick from. I just need to talk with an engine builder to figure out which springs to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I assume this cant be warrentied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I assume this cant be warrentied? Supercharger and ECU tune kinda killed that. Even though they weren't the cause, I'm sure it would take a day in court to convince a dealership of that. I'd probably end up paying more. And that still wouldn't address the weak springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 will an wrx/STI engine fit in there? serious question, I don't know anything about subarus. I am assuming this is a hydraulic lifter. years ago I had a problem with one of the pontiac lifters collapsing. Same hole, every time, 3 different lifters. Turns out there was a slight obstruction (swarf) in the oil passage that caused the lifter to starve for oil enough to "pump down" but not enough to heat up or seize. When it did it would collapse and I would get this horrible tick. happened at idle as soon as the oil warmed up. Sounds similar to what you have going on - the lifter isn't getting enough oil, it collapses, that opens up the all the clearances and the thing walks. Or it could have just been a defective lifter. If the subaru uses a solid lifter then nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Solid lifters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Would an EJ20 fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Solid lifters. +1. do they make a solid lash adjuster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 will an wrx/STI engine fit in there? serious question, I don't know anything about subarus. I am assuming this is a hydraulic lifter. years ago I had a problem with one of the pontiac lifters collapsing. Same hole, every time, 3 different lifters. Turns out there was a slight obstruction (swarf) in the oil passage that caused the lifter to starve for oil enough to "pump down" but not enough to heat up or seize. When it did it would collapse and I would get this horrible tick. happened at idle as soon as the oil warmed up. Sounds similar to what you have going on - the lifter isn't getting enough oil, it collapses, that opens up the all the clearances and the thing walks. Or it could have just been a defective lifter. If the subaru uses a solid lifter then nevermind. Would an EJ20 fit? Fit? Pretty much. Bolt up to the transmission? No. EJ swaps are few and far between. I think most shops feel that if they're going to go through all the work needed to make it work, they might as well make something more original fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKilbourne Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Is this at the shop in hilliard that orion was telling me about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Is this at the shop in hilliard that orion was telling me about? Yup. ZB's the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKilbourne Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Not far from my house. Might have to check it out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 might be some good heads? http://dayton.craigslist.org/pts/5259008489.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 might be some good heads? http://dayton.craigslist.org/pts/5259008489.html Thanks! Good catch. Hmm.. I think I might jump on this. At the very least I could use the cover, rockers, and lifters from this engine, as well as the RH head for the core instead of my damaged head. ...as long as it isn't too new. Going to have to make some phone calls tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltboostin Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Thanks! Good catch. Hmm.. I think I might jump on this. At the very least I could use the cover, rockers, and lifters from this engine, as well as the RH head for the core instead of my damaged head. ...as long as it isn't too new. Going to have to make some phone calls tomorrow. What is there to think about here? If it was local-I'd buy it and eBay the motor parts seperatly, and likely triple my money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 What is there to think about here? If it was local-I'd buy it and eBay the motor parts seperatly, and likely triple my money! Gotta figure out a way to get it home for one.. I also need to find out if it's a '13-'14 engine, or a '15+ engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattKatz Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 Where is this "Carnage" that you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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