San Bernardino Attack

[Jewtoys]

Oh here we go again...

 

Its not that I don't feel safe, I prefer to feel ready if something were to happen.

 

I can function as a normal adult without one, some people can't.

 

You have better odds of being crushed by a vehicle while crossing the street, so should you wear a helmet while crossing the street?

 

 

I couldn't imagine having to carry a gun with me, whenever I left the house.

[wagner]

You have better odds of being crushed by a vehicle while crossing the street, so should you wear a helmet while crossing the street?

 

 

I couldn't imagine having to carry a gun with me, whenever I left the house.

 

Maybe, but that's why I look both ways when I cross to prevent that, sort of like why people carry a weapon to prevent a possible issue.

 

Soooo, yeah...

 

You don't have to carry anything, sort of like you don't have to be ready if your car has a flat tire. Its all about choices.

 

When I go to Orlando in a month, guess what? Won't have a gun with me and I'm okay with that. I will find other ways to prevent issues and keep my wits about me.

 

Its that easy my friend

[Jewtoys]

Maybe, but that's why I look both ways when I cross to prevent that, sort of like why people carry a weapon to prevent a possible issue.

 

Soooo, yeah...

 

You don't have to carry anything, sort of like you don't have to be ready if your car has a flat tire. Its all about choices.

 

When I go to Orlando in a month, guess what? Won't have a gun with me and I'm okay with that. I will find other ways to prevent issues and keep my wits about me.

 

Its that easy my friend

 

 

I don't know, just doesn't make sense to me. Couldn't imagine having that mindset about my environment, granted I'm aware things can happen. I've had a gun pulled on me before, and had myself been carrying I might not even be here right now?

[wagner]

I don't know, just doesn't make sense to me. Couldn't imagine having that mindset about my environment, granted I'm aware things can happen. I've had a gun pulled on me before, and had myself been carrying I might not even be here right now?

 

Its all about situational awareness and being just a little ready IF something were to happen.

 

Right now there are 14 families wishing somebody would have been doing what you can't imagine.

 

Also, our country is pretty safe, there are places that I try to avoid because in my mind they are not safe. Great example about knowing your situation and where you are going right here

 

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/more-tourists-missing-in-mexico-1312883306373174.html

[Jewtoys]

Its all about situational awareness and being just a little ready IF something were to happen.

 

Right now there are 14 families wishing somebody would have been doing what you can't imagine.

 

Also, our country is pretty safe, there are places that I try to avoid because in my mind they are not safe. Great example about knowing your situation and where you are going right here

 

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/more-tourists-missing-in-mexico-1312883306373174.html

 

 

I get it, but the odds are extremely rare. I would feel like I was giving up some freedom to walk around with a gun, although others feel the opposite.

 

Different strokes I suppose.

[wagner]

I get it, but the odds are extremely rare. I would feel like I was giving up some freedom to walk around with a gun, although others feel the opposite.

 

Different strokes I suppose.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all, at least you realize the odds are rare.

[Aaron]

I don't know, just doesn't make sense to me. Couldn't imagine having that mindset about my environment, granted I'm aware things can happen. I've had a gun pulled on me before, and had myself been carrying I might not even be here right now?

 

So because you would have had a gun, you'd have made dumb decisions to cause you dead?

 

:dumb:

 

I bet not...

[Geeto67]

I carry a firearm or some other form of protection while in public at all times now. I have never been one to look for trouble and will be the first one to walk away from a confilct to lower its tense nature, but if trouble comes looking for me, I'll have an answer for it.

 

You do realize that statistically speaking that answer is most likely to be "shot to death with own weapon", right?

 

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US. when I worked private security in NY I remember being told that I had a 30% chance of my own weapon being used against me in any altercation and that the best countermeasure was better strategy and preventative action training, not a more secure holster.

[Jewtoys]

So because you would have had a gun, you'd have made dumb decisions to cause you dead?

 

:dumb:

 

I bet not...

 

Well I didn't have a gun on me, and ended up not being shot.

 

Who knows, If I were to have a gun with me, it could have turned into a shootout.

[Aaron]

Well I didn't have a gun on me, and ended up not being shot.

 

Who knows, If I were to have a gun with me, it could have turned into a shootout.

 

And this is the exact reason why YOU shouldn't have a gun. The fact that you could even type that, let alone think it, is incredible.

[sol740]

If you don't like firearms, don't buy or carry one.

[2highpsi]

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US.

 

 

To be fair, "mass shootings" tend to happen in places where people aren't allowed to conceal carry.

 

I could link you a dozen instances of CCW holders saving their own or others lives.

[wagner]

You do realize that statistically speaking that answer is most likely to be "shot to death with own weapon", right?

 

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US. when I worked private security in NY I remember being told that I had a 30% chance of my own weapon being used against me in any altercation and that the best countermeasure was better strategy and preventative action training, not a more secure holster.

 

If you don't know how to use your gun or have solid training, you will. So yes, you would have your own gun used on you if you don't know what the hell you are doing.

 

And, how do you know a mass shooting was not stopped or prevented with a firearm, if the person was able to stop it?

 

And yes, one has been stopped: http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/03/us/mohammed-drawing-contest-shooting/

[sol740]

If the security firm you worked for lost their firearms in 30% of altercations with aggressors your security firm fucking sucks.

[Jewtoys]

And this is the exact reason why YOU shouldn't have a gun. The fact that you could even type that, let alone think it, is incredible.

 

 

When you're in that situation report back.

 

 

Every gun toting cowboy thinks they will be able to magically stop any situation. IF I had a gun, and pulled it out once he drew on me things would have ended poorly. I could have been shot dead, or him, or both of us. Instead some talking got the guy to cool his shit, rare case, yes. But I would rather be walking around today, without ever having to shoot someone.

 

 

Also I have no issues with guns, just don't see the need to carry one with me. I've owned guns in the past.

[Aaron]

When you're in that situation report back.

 

 

Every gun toting cowboy thinks they will be able to magically stop any situation. IF I had a gun, and pulled it out once he drew on me things would have ended poorly. I could have been shot dead, or him, or both of us. Instead some talking got the guy to cool his shit, rare case, yes.

 

Why would YOU act different, if you had a gun? You're projecting complete horse shit. You're saying if YOU had a gun, it would somehow take over your rational, situational awareness, making you pull the weapon out, when you shouldn't, and get in a "gun fight."

 

That's ridiculous.

[EssFo]

You do realize that statistically speaking that answer is most likely to be "shot to death with own weapon", right?

 

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US. when I worked private security in NY I remember being told that I had a 30% chance of my own weapon being used against me in any altercation and that the best countermeasure was better strategy and preventative action training, not a more secure holster.

 

It never happens.

 

http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/

[sol740]

When you're in that situation report back.

 

 

Everyone gun toting cowboy thinks they will be able to magically stop any situation. IF I had a gun, and pulled it out once he drew on me things would have ended poorly. I could have been shot dead, or him, or both of us. Instead some talking got the guy to cool his shit, rare case, yes.

 

I think you're projecting a bit. It's simple, you get to choose whether or not to carry a firearm, I respect that choice. I simply ask for the same. Very few CCW'ers I know have the billy-badass attitude you bring up, but there are some, sadly. For me, if a shooting is going down I'm looking for ways to get me and my family away from the situation and into relative safety, the firearm allows me to mount a defense should there be forceful denial of that escape.

 

Unlikely? Absolutely. I don't expect my house to catch on fire either but it's insured. The risk is low, but the consequences for inaction, high. We all have to choose our level of comfort.

[Jewtoys]

Why would YOU act different, if you had a gun? You're projecting complete horse shit. You're saying if YOU had a gun, it would somehow take over your rational, situational awareness, making you pull the weapon out, when you shouldn't, and get in a "gun fight."

 

That's ridiculous.

 

 

Being rational when in those situations, doesn't always happen. Especially when adrenaline is pumping.

 

But let me get this straight, you want to carry while in public, but when you see someone pulls out a gun, then points it at your face 30 seconds later, pulling out your gun shouldn't be an option?

 

Why even carry then?

 

My whole point.

 

I think you're projecting a bit. It's simple, you get to choose whether or not to carry a firearm, I respect that choice. I simply ask for the same. Very few CCW'ers I know have the billy-badass attitude you bring up, but there are some sadly. For me, if a shooting is going down I'm looking for ways to get me and my family away from the situation and into relative safety, the firearm allows me to mount a defense should there be forceful denial of that escape.

 

Unlikely? Absolutely. I don't expect my house to catch on fire either but it's insured. The risk is low, but the consequences for inaction, high. We all have to choose our level of comfort.

 

 

I don't know many CCW holders, but the few I do know always have that billy badass attitude, and always talk about "when something goes down"

 

I don't have any issues with someone carrying, it's your right to do so, Just doesn't make any sense to me, if I ever felt the need to walk out of my house with a gun, it would be time to move for me.

[RyM3rC]

if I ever felt the need to walk out of my house with a gun, it would be time to move for me.

 

You don't sound like a very good Russian Arms dealer. Must have like a band of henchmen or something

[HotCarl]

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US.

 

How would you know? "good guy stops bad guy from killing people with legally obtained firearm" wont sell papers and it wont make headlines. What does make headlines, "14 dead, 17 injured in workplace firearm violence that no one could stop".

 

I recently read an article titled "12 times mass killings were prevented in the last year", I really wanted to link it here but I can't find the exact article. My point is that these things happen often but they're not newsworthy.

[EssFo]

How would you know? "good guy stops bad guy from killing people with legally obtained firearm" wont sell papers and it wont make headlines. What does make headlines, "14 dead, 17 injured in workplace firearm violence that no one could stop".

 

I recently read an article titled "12 times mass killings were prevented in the last year", I really wanted to link it here but I can't find the exact article. My point is that these things happen often but they're not newsworthy.

 

See my link above.

[El Karacho1647545492]

How would you know? "good guy stops bad guy from killing people with legally obtained firearm" wont sell papers and it wont make headlines. What does make headlines, "14 dead, 17 injured in workplace firearm violence that no one could stop".

 

I recently read an article titled "12 times mass killings were prevented in the last year", I really wanted to link it here but I can't find the exact article. My point is that these things happen often but they're not newsworthy.

 

http://controversialtimes.com/issues/constitutional-rights/12-times-mass-shootings-were-stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/

 

Not sure I agree with everything but just providing the link I assume you were talking about.

 

EDIT: Going down the list, there are some pretty strong arguments for a lot of other things BESIDES everyone in the area carrying firearms to protect themselves. I'm going to ignore the speculations such as "authorities say there might've been more victims if..." or "due to the school policy on...", rather just state facts.

 

1+2: both assailants were under 18y/o, but were able to obtain firearms somehow.

 

3: School, site of assault, was a "gun free zone" but both students who stopped the shooter were police officers who obviously have training with guns and retrieved them from their cars.

 

4: The quoted portion of the article fails to mention that the savior in this situation was also a police officer at some point, obviously received specialized training.

 

5: 79 year old assailant, again the article fails to mention the savior is a police officer.

 

6: 62 year old assailant, school resource officer aka police officer stopped him.

 

7: Convicted felon obtained his shotgun illegally from his sister, was later determined incompetent to stand trial. Savior in this situation was NOT a police officer.

 

8: Savior is INCORRECTLY described as just a "shopper at the mall" with a concealed carry license, rather he was trained as an armed security guard by the Oregon Department of Public Safety. Savior NEVER discharged his firearm, and while the "authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack" if you read the savior's description of events, the gunman's AR-15 jammed, he retreated, cleared the gun and killed himself with it.

 

9: Bouncer at the strip club who shot the gunman was U.S. Army infantry prior to being a bouncer

 

10: Not enough info, assuming the victim/CCW was a civilian with no training, but was assisted by coworkers who were not armed.

 

11: Armed security guard stopped the shooting

 

12: Psychiatric patient/convicted felon was able to obtain a gun and kill his case worker, was stopped by CCW carrying psych doctor.

 

Conclusions from this article:

 

1) Over half of the saviors were easily found to have had extensive firearms training, specifically in the context of defending themselves AND OTHERS.

 

2) Of those 5 who I could not easily confirm had such training, 2 of them were up against kids, 2 were up against clearly mentally disturbed people, and one was up against a normal human, but had several other people helping him subdue the attacker.

 

3) Be careful what you quote and what you read, because all these instances could just as easily be spun to support a "we need tighter gun controls and extensive family background checks!" argument. Not that I believe it, but I'm just saying this article is total clickbait.

 

4) The only time you should EVER involve yourself in a shooting situation is if you have extensive training for such a situation, or if you have no other choice and you're in immediate danger of being killed.

Edited December 4, 2015 by El Karacho

[Aaron]

Being rational when in those situations, doesn't always happen. Especially when adrenaline is pumping.

 

But let me get this straight, you want to carry while in public, but when you see someone pulls out a gun, then points it at your face 30 seconds later, pulling out your gun shouldn't be an option?

 

Why even carry then?

 

My whole point.

 

Because in the situation you described, it would only escalate it, probably with an unfavorable outcome. Especially considering a gun is already pointed at me, when you'd want me to try to quick draw McGraw the guy...

 

Carrying a gun doesn't mean you'd have an answer to every situation. If that guy wanted my wallet, he'd have it, and hopefully be gone.

 

If it went somewhere else, then I'd have to make a decision from there, but it certainly wouldn't be trying to draw on a gun in your face.

[jjjxlr8]

 

I don't think in the last two decade anybody has "stopped" or "prevented" a mass shooting with a firearm in the US. ....

 

There are at least two situations that I know of. One happened at a shopping mall in the last year or two (three?). The US mainstream media doesn't want to talk about that, though, as it goes against their agenda of pushing more gun control.