Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I love reading stuff like this. How products like this get greenlit and make their way past all the stage gates of a ginormous corporation prior to being born. After all, any company could make a Veyron class car if they so choose, from Chevy to Audi to Kia. Engineering wise it's all well within their capability. How a company chooses to bring one to market is often the deciding factor, and whether, you know, they plan to make money at it.... Anyhoo, I found this an interesting read: http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/04/review-dodge-challenger-hellcat-just-the-right-car-for-attila-the-hun/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grudes Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImUrOBGYN Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Hadn't realized they'd put so much effort into keeping it usable on the track and beefing up drivetrain components enough to withstand the abuse they gave it in testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Well, reads like this show you the difference between a tried and tested car company, one that we may not give it its due, and an upstart like say Tesla. Not bagging on Tesla, but by way of comparison you have the blogosphere and fanboy darling, the S, which can't complete a single lap of the Nurburgring under full power (and still hasn't) - and in the other corner you have what some deride as a dinosaur of a car, the Hellcat, that's built and ready to do 20plus laps and/or 100 back to back quarter mile runs without failure or performance degradation. Again, not bagging on Tesla, but that there is the difference between a startup and a veteran. One expects you to wet yourself over it and wipe it down daily with a soft cloth diaper, the other expects you to beat the ever loving shit out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robochan Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 fanboy darling, the S, which can't complete a single lap of the Nurburgring under full power (and still hasn't) - and I don't heat my bathwater with a toaster either. You picked a bad car to compare this to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Point me to another car with the hype train of that one to compare it to then. Its also a fair comparison because its been a thing: comparing the S to the Hellcat. Just ask Jonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Point me to another car with the hype train of that one to compare it to then. Its also a fair comparison because its been a thing: comparing the S to the Hellcat. Just ask Jonny LOL at the first 45 seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I know right? Love that video. But more to the point - as we read from the article above, the Hellcat motor is built to and expected to do 100 back to back runs without performance degradation. Thats not just DO 100 runs, but do 100 runs without performance degradation. Insane mode indeed. Is that realistic? Probably not. But what IS realistic, is that the Tesla would not accomplish anything anywhere remotely NEAR that kind of sustained performance ask. Not only can you expect the nanny programming to kick in somewhere around the 3 minute mark and chop power off (what would that net you? 10 runs? if you did nothing but seesaw quartermiles back and forth) but if the nanny mode DIDN'T kick in, and you kept chasing 1/4 runs nonstop, the battery pack would cordially turn into a blowtorch. re - Tesla Roadster. So, well, there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Hands down I'd rather have the Hellcat. I could really care less about the cost of gasoline and with the Tesla being so overpriced in comparison give me the Hellcat any day vs it. Dollar for dollar against the P85D I'd rather have Kirk's RS7 and bitch slap it with an APR Tune. Now that's bad-ass. :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Well, reads like this show you the difference between a tried and tested car company, one that we may not give it its due, and an upstart like say Tesla. Not bagging on Tesla, but by way of comparison you have the blogosphere and fanboy darling, the S, which can't complete a single lap of the Nurburgring under full power (and still hasn't) - and in the other corner you have what some deride as a dinosaur of a car, the Hellcat, that's built and ready to do 20plus laps and/or 100 back to back quarter mile runs without failure or performance degradation. Again, not bagging on Tesla,but that there is the difference between a startup and a veteran. One expects you to wet yourself over it and wipe it down daily with a soft cloth diaper, the other expects you to beat the ever loving shit out of it. No, you have the difference between a new (battery) technology and one that runs on, you said it yourself, dinosaurs. But if you want an apples to apples comparison, really the first DC electric motors predate gasoline internal combustion by nearly 30 years. I assure you, if you gave a gasoline engine and an electric motor both a constant supply of energy, and a constant load, that electric motor will go on FAR longer and reliably than the gasoline will. I know right? Love that video. But more to the point - as we read from the article above, the Hellcat motor is built to and expected to do 100 back to back runs without performance degradation. Thats not just DO 100 runs, but do 100 runs without performance degradation. Insane mode indeed. Is that realistic? Probably not. But what IS realistic, is that the Tesla would not accomplish anything anywhere remotely NEAR that kind of sustained performance ask. Not only can you expect the nanny programming to kick in somewhere around the 3 minute mark and chop power off (what would that net you? 10 runs? if you did nothing but seesaw quartermiles back and forth) but if the nanny mode DIDN'T kick in, and you kept chasing 1/4 runs nonstop, the battery pack would cordially turn into a blowtorch. re - Tesla Roadster. So, well, there's that. Do you even realize why there is this limitation? This isn't limited to Tesla or their inability to engineer a car that can do this, there is just NO battery in the world could do that. The heat that accumulates in the battery packs is quite hard to remove since pretty much all of the materials used in modern batteries (lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt) are relatively poor thermal conductors. Their precautions in neutering power aren't a joke. Thermal runaway in a LiCoO2 type batteries begins at just 302* F. A 90kwh battery is 324 megajoules of energy. That's the same amount of energy you'd find in 150-170lbs of TNT (three different conversions yielded different results.) Yeah, you're not blowing it all off at once, but you don't want that energy to start releasing itself rapidly. Would you want your gas tank igniting if your motor ran too hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted April 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Uh... I understand all that. Kinda why I used the word blowtorch. What exactly are we arguing about? Because it looks like we're saying the same thing. Alot of personal experience with lipos in hi power hi load situations. Didn't need the remedial google battery regurgitation. I believe I stated years ago right here in CR that battery tech was going to be the limiting factor for a long time, and no amount of clever coding can overcome physics. In fact the company I'm contracting to right now is heavily into chemical research for the battery industry. As for electric motors. Well, nobody who's served in the Navy has any misconceptions around the power, reliability, or century+ pedigree of electric motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 I assure you, if you gave a gasoline engine and an electric motor both a constant supply of energy, and a constant load, that electric motor will go on FAR longer and reliably than the gasoline will. I wouldn't go that far. It depends on what the engine was designed for. Most typical automotive engines were not really designed for continuous duty, but there are plenty of other engines that are. Those used in remote industrial sites to power equipment run for years and years without failures. Yes, most are typically designed with diesel fuel in mind as it's easier and safer to keep them fueled, but some run on other fuels and have proven quite reliable as well. Though, the same can be said of electric motors designed for the same abuse. I would say in the proper application, the failure rates i've seen would put properly designed engines as more reliable than electric motors, given the same environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) Will have to post vid from today where the Blue Hellcat took a shit with oil/smoke billowing out after like the 5th pass. Felt bad as it was a nice car. Driver seemed to struggled putting down the power as most passes I saw were low 13's. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/81j7_-znMGc Edited April 29, 2016 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Great article. Every SRT goes through a 24 hour track test before release, although most drag racers running sticky tires are upgrading the drive shaft (and that seems like a smart move). There are Hellcat's in the 9's already. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 Will have to post vid from today where the Blue Hellcat took a shit with oil/smoke billowing out after like the 5th pass. Felt bad as it was a nice car. Driver seemed to struggled putting down the power as most passes I saw were low 13's. Here's the video: https://youtu.be/81j7_-znMGc What happened? Was it completely stock? Probably would be covered by warranty. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 What happened? Was it completely stock? Probably would be covered by warranty. Haven't a clue. Had radials on it and appeared to be learning to put the power down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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