Thanks to Trey (IV Rings) @ MAG

[Versluis]

It's a solid tune for our platform so I'm sure your is too. I'm seeing a little drop in RPM/slip but nothing I'd scream over if it wasn't fixed. Some guys in the S4 world bitch about everything to the Nth degree. APR haters for not having flash-at-home.

 

Call Jeff at Toy Barn. I'm not sure if he'd charge for a flash or even if he'll charge me to update mine. It only takes 20 minutes so bill me for 30 as we know nothing is ever as simple as we think and call it a day is how I see it.

 

I plan on stopping in this week to talk to him. I heard he does not charge labor from another guy that went with them. You shouldn't be charged for the update. From what I have seen when they come out with updates its free for people with outdated tunes.

[Aaron]

Depends on how well it drives. I've been in the Chevy's new C7's and their autos are night and day compared to what you are LOL'ing at and we have known from days past.

 

My guess is Audi went to the 8spd for cost / efficiency reasons though. However I'm sure it holds its own. Not sure if Trey has done a ride and drive with the new S4.

 

6spd difficult launches are LOL

 

:dumb:

 

You're right I was totally talking about the automatic in my Taurus from highschool...

 

I've owned a dsg, I get them, even like them for what they are, an automatic. The best kind, but one nonetheless.

 

Awd lol

[TTQ B4U]

An auto SHO? Please tell me your parents didn't make you drive a non-SHO. I'd have walked.

 

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[Aaron]

An auto SHO? Please tell me your parents didn't make you drive a non-SHO. I'd have walked.

 

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They gave me a 95 se, I sold and got a 95 sho, wrecked then a 94 sho.

 

Yamaha ftw.

[zeitgeist57]

Auto lol. As I watch Petrolicious and other YouToob car vids, I realize that I'm going to have to make sure the majority of my fleet stays old-skool to keep my stick-shift...and I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

If I'm going to get a shifter-less car in the next 10 years, it's going to be a TESLA or BMW i3/i8. :thumbup::thumbup: You can throw a 12-speed automatic behind a gas engine and it's still going to be within 10% MPGs of it's 2010 counterpart. 300-mile range electric car FTW.

[Aaron]

Auto lol.

 

Agreed, I learned at a young age.

[Geeto67]

 

[*] presence of a torque converter = automatic transmission

This is a narrow view and unfortunately incorrect in that it supposes that all automatic transmissions require a torque converter. It is correct in that a torque converter automatic is one of the many types of automatic transmissions out there. Unfortunately most of them died out in America before the second world war, so it is not unusual for Americans to think the definition of automatic transmission starts and stops with torque converter transmissions but that is just not the case. In the 50's there were a lot of european cars that came with a mechanical centrifugal clutch automatics - no hydraulic torque converters.

 

Porsche's sportmatic transmission used a torque converter instead of a clutch but the driver had to still shift into every gear, it is debatable as to whether this qualifies as an automatic since there was no option to have the trans shift for itself, but the majority view is that it is still an automatic or a "semi-automatic".

 

[*] computer controlled shifting doesn't make a DSG an automatic transmission. At it's heart is a manual gearbox with a computer controlling it. To be called an automatic in the traditional sense, it would need a torque converter and hydraulics to make it that. otherwise, it's just a manual system being computer controlled or fully manually controlled.

 

I agree, computer controlled clutch actuation in conjunction with computer controlled shifting makes it an automatic. In the 1930's the Cord 810 and 812s came with a preselector gearbox. The clutch was electrically operated and the lever vacuum operated. The driver could put the gear selector in any position they wanted but the car would not shift until they stepped on the clutch. Guess what - still considered a manual transmission because it requires a human to select the gear and also to operate the clutch. Where the clutch is engaged by mechanical linkage, hydraulics, or a computer signal, if it still requires a person to tell it when to engage and disengage it is still a manual.

 

Also the fact that it conforms to all the user input standards set by the Society of Automotive Engineers for Automatic transmission operation. When you remove the human element to something it is called Automation, finding a new way to make an old transmission design operate automatically makes it an automatic transmission - it just doesn't make it a torque converter transmission, but as we discussed before a torque converter transmission is not the only automatic transmission out there.

 

 

In the end Kerry, I can appreciate your love for a three pedal car but I think that's right up there with the love for playing Vinyl Music. May be more-true in a sense but it's a little antiquated.

I never said the DSG wasn't a technological marvel. It really is and completely something we couldn't have built well 30 years ago. However, for 90% of it's day to day use in a DD street car it offers no real advantage over a torque converter automatic. Does it have it's place? sure. If I was racing Formula 1 you bet your ass I would want one because that is a competition and the standard for the field (yes I know the F1 trans is not really comparable to the street DSG, humor me), but for a commuter car it's just another PRNDL stick in the floor.

 

I get there is this "stigma" about automatics being inferior and a crutch for inferior driving skills. You can't ignore that the DSG does level the playing field a little and does give those who are sensitive some sort of legitimate excuse for when people make fun of them....but honestly who cares. If you are that defensive about your transmission choices that you have to ignore the fact that a DSG is still an automatic transmission, maybe you should change your tampon and get over it.

 

the interesting thing about a DSG is that it takes a completely different set of skills to operate than traditional manuals or automatics. However, it still has a lazy mode "D" which gives you the option of not practicing that skill.

 

Even the new GM 8 and 10 speed auto's are more fun in a performance sense than a manual car. Unless of course how you get to speed is more important than the end result.

 

"More fun" is a subjective opinion statement and not a quantitative value in how much better something is objectively. You think automatics are fun, I don't, it's that simple. From a human interaction standpoint it is always a reduced interface and that is the thing I am trying to avoid. I have owned automatic cars, and I have driven a tiptronic 911 and boxster, a DSG R32 and an Audi A3 with the DSG, and I just find them boring - and for getting on the highway and going to work the experience to be no different than any torque converter automatic.

[TTQ B4U]

This is a narrow view and unfortunately incorrect in that it supposes that all automatic transmissions require a torque converter.

 

No, Iknow others existed but in 2016, and for what most everyone knows and calls and automatic in modern day, a TC is typically involved.

 

 

When you remove the human element to something it is called Automation, finding a new way to make an old transmission design operate automatically makes it an automatic transmission - it just doesn't make it a torque converter transmission, but as we discussed before a torque converter transmission is not the only automatic transmission out there.

 

 

 

 

However, for 90% of it's day to day use in a DD street car it offers no real advantage over a torque converter automatic.

 

I think in terms of efficiency overall it's great for a DD over a traditional system. More power, better mpg's and better performance. It's also more fun than a traditional manu-matic. Shifts done manually are light years above the average DD'er tap-shift aka tap-delay-slowshift.

 

I get there is this "stigma" about automatics being inferior and a crutch for inferior driving skills.

 

meh, for me it's not about a stigma around skills. for me it's about the sheer PIA a stick can be in rush hour. I drive all over the 5 states around us and then some and with roads becoming more crowded every day, I welcome the break.

 

You can't ignore that the DSG does level the playing field a little and does give those who are sensitive some sort of legitimate excuse for when people make fun of them....but honestly who cares. If you are that defensive about your transmission choices that you have to ignore the fact that a DSG is still an automatic transmission, maybe you should change your tampon and get over it.

 

No defensiveness, just a chime-in on correcting the technicals of things. I see your point about removing human interaction automating things but I don't call a DSG an automatic in a traditional sense, because in fuction the thing it shares in common with a traditional TC Auto is it's ability to have a computer take over if/when needed. Otherwise, it's more a traditional manual transmission than TC Auto in the way it's designed and functions.

 

the interesting thing about a DSG is that it takes a completely different set of skills to operate than traditional manuals or automatics. However, it still has a lazy mode "D" which gives you the option of not practicing that skill.

 

The lazy mode or the more improved mode really. Why operate a clutch when a computer can do that and rev match for you. One still gets to choose exactly when to up or down shift if they wish which you can't do in the same way with a traditional auto.

 

"More fun" is a subjective opinion statement and not a quantitative value in how much better something is objectively.

 

it is subjective but for me anything that is more efficient, delivers more power, better economy, can outshift most on a completely consistant bases thus allowing better overall performance, allows me freedom to control or be controlled makes what I want my car, even a DD'er turd more fun.

 

You think automatics are fun, I don't, it's that simple.

 

I would agree, manual control is more fun at times. Having teh ability to have it both ways is rewarding too.

 

From a human interaction standpoint it is always a reduced interface and that is the thing I am trying to avoid.

 

There's definitely a place for the purism of it all.

 

for getting on the highway and going to work the experience to be no different than any torque converter automatic.

 

that day I saw you in the Jeep on 270.....I guarantee I was having more fun than you in a stick shift or the guy next to me in the Automatic Accord.

 

 

 

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[Aaron]

No defensiveness, just a chime-in on correcting the technicals of things. I see your point about removing human interaction automating things but I don't call a DSG an automatic in a traditional sense, because in fuction the thing it shares in common with a traditional TC Auto is it's ability to have a computer take over if/when needed. Otherwise, it's more a traditional manual transmission than TC Auto in the way it's designed and functions.

 

You have consumed all the coolaid, all of it.

 

Nothing you can do in your DSG, can not be accomplished in the 8/10 speed tq converted autos out now. Or, for that matter, anything besides LC, that a mid 90s "slap shift" auto could...Shift speed is a direct result of transmission technology, hence the new ZFs.

 

Also, you're also skipping the auto upshift programming that is in the large majority of these AUTO transmissions. You had to void your warranty, and get a DSG tune to get it to not upshift at redline.

 

One still gets to choose exactly when to up or down shift if they wish which you can't do in the same way with a traditional auto.

 

Wrong, see above.

[unfunnyryan]

One still gets to choose exactly when to up or down shift if they wish which you can't do in the same way with a traditional auto.

 

I guarantee I was having more fun than you in a stick shift or the guy next to me in the Automatic Accord.

 

the funny thing is, auto accords with paddle shifters get to choose exactly when to up or down shift with a traditional auto. It will only ever force a downshift when it's about to stall. It will never up shift automatically in "select shift" mode.

[TTQ B4U]

I've voided every warranty on my cars since the early 90's. Never a worry in my world from doing so.

 

I drank your AWD German Beer and then you go all Redneck Budweiser on me. Thanks Pal!

 

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[Aaron]

I've voided every warranty on my cars since the early 90's. Never a worry in my world from doing so.

 

I drank your AWD German Beer and then you go all Redneck Budweiser on me. Thanks Pal!

 

I get it, and would too, but the point is its an auto.

[Geeto67]

meh, for me it's not about a stigma around skills. for me it's about the sheer PIA a stick can be in rush hour. I drive all over the 5 states around us and then some and with roads becoming more crowded every day, I welcome the break.

 

It's not for everyone. I personally don't mind at all, but it is personal preference. The only time I was ever bugged with a stick was when I drove a truck in NYC delivering radiators. but that was well over a decade ago.

 

 

 

No defensiveness, just a chime-in on correcting the technicals of things. I see your point about removing human interaction automating things but I don't call a DSG an automatic in a traditional sense, because in fuction the thing it shares in common with a traditional TC Auto is it's ability to have a computer take over if/when needed. Otherwise, it's more a traditional manual transmission than TC Auto in the way it's designed and functions.

 

In order to correct the "technicals" you have to be correct, which you aren't. You are redefining "automatic" to exclude your transmission when the industry is inclusive.

 

 

Why operate a clutch when a computer can do that and rev match for you.

Because skills and practice.

 

 

 

 

it is subjective but for me anything that is more efficient,

debateable because it is still heavier

 

delivers more power,

in the same car delivers the same power. DSGs seem to be stronger than the manuals in most german non-performance specials, but stock for stock they are putting out the same power

 

better economy,

again debatable because heavier. Also DSGs don't shift to neutral and coast

 

can out-shift most on a completely consistent bases

fair point. I mean so can a modified TH400 with a shift kit, but stock it is probably much better,

 

thus allowing better overall performance, allows me freedom to control or be controlled makes what I want my car, even a DD'er turd more fun.

Your freedom is illusory when shifting yourself - it is just invisible because you don't want to break your car.

 

 

that day I saw you in the Jeep on 270.....I guarantee I was having more fun than you in a stick shift or the guy next to me in the Automatic Accord.

 

that probably had a lot more to do with the speed snail under your hood and the fact that you were north of a buck on the speedo. Having a car that doesn't struggle to hold 85mph because it is barn door with a 100K+ miles on it means the honda accord was having more fun then me, but then again I was in top gear not shifting.

[Zx2guy19]

Bros. The responses in this thread are too fucking long. I'm laying on a beach in Cancun and don't want to read your PhD dissertations about a fucking transmission.

 

Mike- congrats to your mom man, looks like she got a really nice car. Trey is the man.

[Geeto67]

Bros. The responses in this thread are too fucking long. I'm laying on a beach in Cancun and don't want to read your PhD dissertations about a fucking transmission.

 

so tell the guy who is holding the gun to your head forcing you to read every thread to lighten up.

 

You are in a beach in Cancun and you are looking at this thread instead of...well...just about anything more interesting that is going on in real life around you right now? I don't know what to say.

[Zx2guy19]

so tell the guy who is holding the gun to your head forcing you to read every thread to lighten up.

 

You are in a beach in Cancun and you are looking at this thread instead of...well...just about anything more interesting that is going on in real life around you right now? I don't know what to say.

 

Taking a break from all the sex and alcohol for a few minutes. Sue me. Oh wait, aren't you a traffic lawyer? Ha

[zeitgeist57]

Admittedly, I enjoyed reading the discourse above between Tim and Kerry. I thought some good points were brought up by both sides, and I appreciate the civil tone. The one thing that still stands out in my mind, though....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

auto lol.

 

 

:gabe:

 

 

 

 

I walk by a car I know came with a stick-shift option, and I look in the window at the center console. I see an automatic stalk shoved in "PARK", or I see some stupid BMW lever-thingy that looks like someone superglued a keyfob to the console? Worse yet, it's a Ferrari or Lambo and there's no stalk in between the seats, like some EUNUCH??? Part of me goes "lol".

 

I've driven and ridden in a LOT of modern performance automatics/DSGs (Thanks, BMW Performance Driving School!) and I still enjoy wringing out a stick.

 

Man has made some impressive engineering accomplishments in moving cars and boats, yet some people still sail, row, or bike where they want to go or justforthefunofit.

[TTQ B4U]

debateable because it is still heavier

 

than a standard manual but then it has two of them inside.

 

in the same car delivers the same power. DSGs seem to be stronger than the manuals in most german non-performance specials, but stock for stock they are putting out the same power

same engine power but less drive train loss thus power to the wheels or to the ground they do offer an advantage.

 

again debatable because heavier. Also DSGs don't shift to neutral and coast

check the weight stats I am not sure a DSG unit is a pig. you might enjoy free wheeling to save a few bucks but I enjoy 100% power delivery via full time engagement through every shift.

 

Admittedly, I enjoyed reading the discourse above between Tim and Kerry. I thought some good points were brought up by both sides, and I appreciate the civil tone.

 

the civil tone is a given man. kerry is cool and he buys me coffee too.

Edited May 19, 2016 by TTQ B4U

[oh8sti]

Thanks,

 

Eric

[Geeto67]

I walk by a car I know came with a stick-shift option, and I look in the window at the center console. I see an automatic stalk shoved in "PARK", or I see some stupid BMW lever-thingy that looks like someone superglued a keyfob to the console? Worse yet, it's a Ferrari or Lambo and there's no stalk in between the seats, like some EUNUCH??? Part of me goes "lol".

.

 

I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who does this, and actually I have been pleasantly surprised a few times. For instance I was walking by a Saturn suv the other day and had to do a double take because I didn't know they were even made in stick. Not that I would buy one, it just made me happy to know it existed.

 

The cars that let me down the most: pickup trucks/SUVs. When I moved to Long Island in high school I fell in with the off-road crowd. All those 70's and 80's c-10s, K5s, Broncos, jeeps, and scouts had manual transmissions. So great. Now when I see an auto bronco or an auto Tacoma I shed a tear like that Native American in the littering commercial. You know how hard it is to find a manual trans quad cab Nissan Frontier FX4? Not easy.

[-Alex-]

Sleek looking car, but the black trim really cheapens it to me. Is an All Road available with color matched trim?

[Geeto67]

Sleek looking car, but the black trim really cheapens it to me. Is an All Road available with color matched trim?

 

It's unpainted plastic, the logic being that you are probably going to take your allroad to the malls with overgrown parking lots and the brush won't scratch the wheel arches and chin spoiler. lol

 

Seriously though, the two tone is a feature and trademark of the allroad. On the darker colors like black and Utopia blue they actually paint the trim silver which kind of defeats the purpose of having raw black plastic that you don't have to worry about scratching. You can get the all road in color matched trim, it's a $1500 option. $1000 for the "Full paint finish" option and $575 for the paint color. It is only available on Mythos Black, Florett Silver, and Glacier White. for $3900 they will paint it whatever color you want (customized paint option).

[IVRINGS]

Thanks again for everyone here allowing me to help and be the go to person for everyone's Audi needs. As many have talked about I do love the new DSGs a lot, but for now all three cars we currently own are all manuals and all in the VW/Audi group. :fuckyeah: