Where the F*** were the parents?? (CAUTION GEETO and TIM quote battle inside)

[TTQ B4U]

 

If you truly believe everything is equal and fair and everyone has the same opportunity in America because it helps you sleep better at night, the facts don't support it and it's fundamentally not true but there is nothing I can do about it because you sleep better at night.

 

Life isn't equal and fair and that's okay. I'm not in favor of it being so either as that means there are people working hard or leveraging what Thier family and past have brought to them and others who feel they are somehow magically entitled to the same for no reason.

 

This isn't a socialist country and life isn't fair. Again that's okay. Go make of life what YOU can with what opportunities YOU have. Don't tread on what others have because you think everyone is somehow deserving of things that aren't theirs. Not every kid shoukd get a trophy or be made to feel it's equal to come in last as it is first. That's part of the pussification of America.

 

Yes, I sleep well at night and don't go around playing a victim all butt-hurt about what my nieghbor has and I don't.

 

San Francisco values can suck a dick like many of them enjoy doing.

 

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Exodus]

http://www.use.com/images/s_1/18cdf9f417b33e165590.jpg

[cdk 4219]

Just once Tim I would like to hear you say..."you know, it's sad that this kid got a concussion, and I really feel for this overwhelmed mother trying to manage 4 kids at the zoo." I mean empathy is a real thing, and not just a power prof Xavier has on the x-men.

 

Also I completely forgot you are a zoo enclosures expert and your opinion that it is "more user friendly" means that it is safe. Come on man, it's a thing designed to interact with kids, designers need to be looking at that part more closely and sometimes litigation forces them to do that.

 

Maybe she should have less children, and while on the subject, you should get fixed yourself. Please go back to NYC where they embrace your views.

[Otis Nice]

Kerry's...views CR as trolls poking other trolls.

 

Oh the ironing.

 

I've never seen someone type so much on an internet forum, and achieve so little in communication. Of course, Kerry would blame everyone ELSE on CR for our lack of understanding. :eyes:

 

When someone has an inflated self view this sort of thing happens.

 

calling someone a "liberal pussy" doesn't make anything more racist - it just makes you look like a closed minded a-hole.

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgytmoK611r8dy8go1_500.gif

 

The end. I couldn't read anymore mindless drivel past this point.

[kirks5oh]

I mean, I can't be the first to point out the sky is always falling attitude, right? This isn't news to you.

 

 

 

please define what makes something a "pussified" state? gun control can't be the singular issue...

 

California is a socialistic shithole than needs to collapse into the ocean. honestly if I had to live in Cali, or nyc, or leave the us, I'd rather live in Canada. I'm on vacation so I refuse to argue multiple reasons why.

[Shmaa]

What I have learned from Kerry.

 

No matter who's fault it is. It's always someone else's fault...

[TTQ B4U]

California is a socialistic shithole than needs to collapse into the ocean. I'm on vacation so I refuse to argue multiple reasons why.

 

Completely agree.

 

Kerry can enjoy the reads:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/55-reasons-why-california-is-the-worst-state-in-america

[o0n8]

CR, never a disappointment on a slow day at work.

[Geeto67]

Completely agree.

 

Kerry can enjoy the reads:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/55-reasons-why-california-is-the-worst-state-in-america

 

I read that whole article Tim and all I can say is I'm really disappointed in you. I was expecting something real and I get what is apparently the middle class conservative version of a Facebook top ten list. Seriously, many of the items on that list were just unsupportable opinion...I mean...5 of the items are just names of cities.

 

i don't think I was expecting anything as massively vacuous as that. I dunno Tim, maybe I was expecting something a little more grounded in reality or at least supportable by some semblance of actual data analyzation...and maybe I am just expecting too much of you.

 

Also your blatant homophobia is tacky. Ok it's more than tacky but I'm being kind.

[wagner]

[TTQ B4U]

I read that whole article Tim and all I can say is I'm really disappointed in you. I was expecting something real and I get what is apparently the middle class conservative version of a Facebook top ten list. Seriously, many of the items on that list were just unsupportable opinion...I mean...5 of the items are just names of cities.

 

i don't think I was expecting anything as massively vacuous as that. I dunno Tim, maybe I was expecting something a little more grounded in reality or at least supportable by some semblance of actual data analyzation...and maybe I am just expecting too much of you.

 

Also your blatant homophobia is tacky. Ok it's more than tacky but I'm being kind.

 

 

Kerry, I think the disconnect is that this is CR not a court of law. Expectations my friend. The list however is pretty solid and the links provide enough support. If you want court-case level citations, remember you're on the internet. In the case of Cali WYSIWYG it's that freaking obvious. Again, no data analyzation needed. You don't need to dig a well when the water is right there in front of you. Please.....

 

Anyone familiar with those cities in Cali will LOL at the cities listed as it's so true.

[Geeto67]

Nobody is expecting a court of law Tim, I just think I was giving you too much credit. I'm not expecting "court level citations" but something written by actual academics would have been nice. You know, a study or two. I'm not really all that interested in your opinions, they aren't really anything I haven't heard before, I'm interested (fascinated actually) in what you relied on to form you opinion. If it is stuff like this, I'm not really all that interested anymore.

 

There was almost nothing "solid" there, maybe one or two items out of 55 that rose to the level of beyond highly suspect. it's just pandering to an already conservative audience.

[TTQ B4U]

Nobody is expecting a court of law Tim, I just think I was giving you too much credit. I'm not expecting "court level citations" but something written by actual academics would have been nice.

 

Academics are all leftist anymore and you know that.

 

 

You know, a study or two. I'm not really all that interested in your opinions, they aren't really anything I haven't heard before, I'm interested (fascinated actually) in what you relied on to form you opinion. If it is stuff like this, I'm not really all that interested anymore.

 

My opinion is based on my personal experience in Cali. Both personally and within the business world. One really only needs to ask the residents and read through opinions of business leaders too. I also read opinions and listen to those that I work with and an extensive list of customers that we have there.

 

There was almost nothing "solid" there, maybe one or two items out of 55 that rose to the level of beyond highly suspect. it's just pandering to an already conservative audience.

 

Feel free to refute anything they cite.

 

 

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Geeto67]

Academics are all leftist anymore and you know that.

 

No they aren't, there are actually people out there in academia that are not "liberal" unless you are so far right that even the republican extremists look liberal. But at that point you kinda have to be honest with yourself that you have made some very large leaps of faith that the data in the common realm doesn't support. I am not saying there are a lot, but it does exist. There are a lot of theories out there as to why this is (I prefer the self selection bias myself) and they are interesting, but just making a blanket statement and giving up is not prima facie evidence that you can't have an intellectual or academic conversation with a conservative point of view.

 

At the end of the day you can't mess with the numbers. You can mess with the interpretation, you can mess with the collection but as long as you adjust your view and address those points (and the mechanics of collection are devoid of tampering) the data is still credible. It doesn't become less credible because you declare all of academia liberal - 4 is not liberal or conservative it is just 4. You can maybe say the way that 4 was collected was "liberal" in criteria, but you can't say "that 4 is a 5 because I believe it is a 5 an dif you believe it is a 4 you are a pussy".

 

 

My opinion is based on my personal experience in Cali. Both personally and within the business world. One really only needs to ask the residents and read through opinions of business leaders too. I also read opinions and listen to those that I work with and an extensive list of customers that we have there.

 

Really? because it looks like your opinion is based on this other guy because you are using his points as yours. And it looks like he started with an opinion and then went searching for data (where he could - as I said some of the statements are literally just "California is the worst because: Sacramento") that could be made to support the assertion - its like a conservative version of buzzfeed.

 

Feel free to refute anything they cite.

That's like asking me to refute something from mad magazine, get real. On it's face its a joke, if you can't see that...I don't know what to tell you.

[Geeesammy]

You are an intelligent guy Kerry and I dont like admitting that but you are blind if you sincerely believe higher education isnt catering to leftists needs. "Safe spaces" "trigger warnings" lectures on white privilege in 2016, I mean its becoming blatantly obvious to outsiders looking in now.

[Geeto67]

just to get us back on topic:

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/06/01/480284223/a-gorilla-is-killed-and-our-parent-shaming-culture-springs-to-life

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2991619/parent-shaming-on-the-rise-how-social-media-creates-so-many-parenting-experts/

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/inside-trend-parent-shaming/story?id=37752623

[Otis Nice]

I'm not really all that interested in your opinions, they aren't really anything I haven't heard before...

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdgytmoK611r8dy8go1_500.gif

[sol740]

This story has it all. Kids, animals, a chance to act all self-righteous about any number of topics one can pretend to be an expert on, whether that's animal behavior, tranquilizer dynamics, parenting, who's on welfare, who's not. It's the perfect shitstorm.

[Geeto67]

You are an intelligent guy Kerry and I dont like admitting that but you are blind if you sincerely believe higher education isnt catering to leftists needs. "Safe spaces" "trigger warnings" lectures on white privilege in 2016, I mean its becomming blatantly obvious to outsiders looking in now.

 

There is a liberal bias in education but its a little bit of an Ouroboros (snake eating its own tail). Political and Religious Conservatives claim that Academia discriminates against them and claim academic bias as to why the environment of academia is inhospitable and discriminatory to them, while politically and religious liberal people claim the conservative viewpoint itself invites academic bias in it's base mentality and use it as a justification to discriminate in hiring practices. When both sides are claiming the same root cause for the same reason it's hard not to think they are both right, but you have to wonder if there isn't something else going on.

 

Topics of lectures are not a good indicator of bias, the point of academia is to have open minded discussions. White privilege is a thing, It does exist - but only by talking about it and analyzing data do we understand it's size and scope.

 

There is a great article from 2006 on this (unfortunately you have to pay for it):

http://poq.oxfordjournals.org/content/70/3/304

 

Just to summarize in Academia there are areas that are less affected by conservative vs liberal so it isn't an "even bias". Studies like economics, political sciences, foreign affairs, etc...are not generally biased against conservatives, where as more traditional humanities studies like psychology, social sciences, etc...favor liberal political and religious outlooks. Even some areas like medicine will bias against religious conservatism but not political conservatism.

 

As I have said the outlook I personally prefer right now is "Self-Selection". conservatives don't go into academia because they prefer higher paying jobs in the private sector, and also some fields require an open-mindedness that some political conservative viewpoints don't support.

 

 

my point is - you can still have a conservative viewpoint supported by academic standards for credibility without taking on liberal bias. My disappointment with Tim is that instead of selecting something like that - he just picked some biased garbage that is highly suspect and thinks its perfectly ok "because liberal bias". But hey...don't let facts get in the way of a good bias.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Geeto67

[xlr8tn]

it's now Friday......most people quit giving a shit on Wednesday.

[AngryBMW]

Ok but the real argument here is this:

 

That gorilla is an incredibly endangered species. Humans, especially babies, are not.

 

Should have let the gorilla live.

-Marc

 

The real question is do you value the (potential) life of a human over a super-endangered animal? We don't know for sure the kid would have been harmed by the gorilla

 

I mean...

-Marc

[TTQ B4U]

My disappointment with Tim is that instead of selecting something like that - he just picked some biased garbage that is highly suspect and thinks its perfectly ok "because liberal bias". But hey...don't let facts get in the way of a good bias.

 

simply stated Kerry doesn't agree with me and likes trying to make me feel if approval is what I'm after when I really have no concern for it.

 

Kerry also doesn't want to believe any of the citations or articals referencing many pretty clear points and opinions from a large number of varying sources because their facts don't match what he feels academia might provide.

[TTQ B4U]

just to get us back on topic:

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/06/01/480284223/a-gorilla-is-killed-and-our-parent-shaming-culture-springs-to-life

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2991619/parent-shaming-on-the-rise-how-social-media-creates-so-many-parenting-experts/

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/inside-trend-parent-shaming/story?id=37752623

 

 

"shaming" arguments are commonly used to deflect from people having to actually take responsibility. sorry dude, but in the end what is shameful is the mother still doesn't admit that she fucked up and let a 3 fucking year old run free at the zoo without an adult watching them and the result was she won the prize she was playing to get.

 

The "mob or bullying" aspect then comes up when the power of social media shows that more than just a small handful of people join together to hold said persona accountable.

 

I'm just awaiting the moment that Parent Shaming get's declared a disease that the gov't will help support the curing of through a social program of some sort. Will likely be put forth by a leftist supported by some academia articular written by an social worker.

[Geeto67]

simply stated Kerry doesn't agree with me and likes trying to make me feel if approval is what I'm after when I really have no concern for it.

 

Kerry also doesn't want to believe any of the citations or articals referencing many pretty clear points and opinions from a large number of varying sources because their facts don't match what he feels academia might provide.

 

Actually Tim, I like the intellectual sparing but I am trying to get you a level where you will be taken seriously. It's a readjustment of your method, not your message that needs to happen. You can't rely on suspect sources and expect your message to be thought provoking when it can be seen through as clear as glass.

 

Here let me help:

 

"shaming" arguments are commonly used to deflect from people having to actually take responsibility. sorry dude, but in the end what is shameful is the mother still doesn't admit that she fucked up and let a 3 fucking year old run free at the zoo without an adult watching them and the result was she won the prize she was playing to get.

 

you can't take the position that "shaming arguments are used to deflect" when you in the very next sentence you admit you are seeking to shame someone. It's inconsistent. Your position should be that "social shaming provides a public service to society" not "shaming is a red herring but no I was actually trying to shame someone".

 

Also "run free at the zoo" is emotional and inflammatory. It is also not actually supportable. It marks your argument as argumentative for the sake of drawing an emotional response. A better way to phrase it would probably read "the mother should be embarrassed and ashamed because the kid being able to get as far as he was is clear that she was neglecting her parental responsibility". Her admitting it is not a resolution you are likely to get and really isn't the resolution you want - you want people to be better parents so lead with that.

 

 

the end result is you get something like:

Discussions regarding the the social aspect of public shaming are moot to this conversation - the mother should be shamed as public shaming has a long tradition of readjusting societal and social behaviors in spaces where the law does not cover. The mother should be embarrassed because the kid being able to get as far as he was is clear that she was neglecting her parental responsibility. If more people were publicly held accountable for their actions in the court of public opinion then maybe there would be fewer cases in the courts of Ohio.

 

I know you think you are saying the same thing but you aren't. What yours does is set up an argument that can only be answered emotionally, which means you can't win. The best you can do is elicit an equal emotional response from your opponent and the worst is they disregard you completely. At least above you open the door to the discussion about societal accountability and standards for what qualifies as parental negligence. I mean it's still flawed in that you assume causation through outcome but your original argument did that anyway.

[TTQ B4U]

Actually Tim, I like the intellectual sparing but I am trying to get you a level where you will be taken seriously. It's a readjustment of your method, not your message that needs to happen. You can't rely on suspect sources and expect your message to be thought provoking when it can be seen through as clear as glass.

 

Kerry, we're both in sales and I hope you realize that I'm not here to help you or anyone overcome their own objections and change their mind. I know my audience. This isn't a jury or courtroom. You might consider the previous article and it's multiple references and sources suspect or without merit but as noted, you're welcome to refute them. Don't confuse that with my believing that single blog is the end all be all either, but also as noted, I'm not interested in posting academia level references.....because again, I know my audience.

 

Here let me help:

 

you can't take the position that "shaming arguments are used to deflect" when you in the very next sentence you admit you are seeking to shame someone. It's inconsistent. Your position should be that "social shaming provides a public service to society" not "shaming is a red herring but no I was actually trying to shame someone".

I think my point is pretty clear and effective. You're welcome to disagree but in the end, the facts are on my side as the end result is her child fell in a mote and was attacked by a Gorilla. First in nearly 40yrs at that zoo. She should just come forward and admit she fucked up, took her eyes off a very anxious 3yr old and it resulted in a pretty tragic situation. What happened is a direct result of her not anyone else. She's the parent who fucked up.

 

Had this been a child who fell into a river at the park because of her doing the same thing we wouldn't be installing fences around the enter Scioto and blaming the city for never having installed them. Had he darted into a street and was struck by a car she'd not be getting a free-pass either.

 

Instead she's choosing to blame someone else. How predictable and common. I bet her husbands crimial past is as a result of the political system not providing enough education and resources, blah blah. Victim mentality.

 

Also "run free at the zoo" is emotional and inflammatory. It is also not actually supportable.

eye witnesses said she took her eye off of him and he quickly made a move through the fence and into the enclosure. IIRC the details were posted on a facebook page by one of them.

 

Her admitting it is not a resolution you are likely to get and really isn't the resolution you want - you want people to be better parents so lead with that.

I really honestly don't care if she becomes a better parent. That's her decision to make or not. What I get pissy about is people like her shirking responsibility and constantly trying to point the finger at others when they should infact own up to their own actions first. She actually should be ashamed of not being adult enough to own that. Not me shaming her mind you, her shaming herself through HER actions...or in this case, lack of action by not parenting well.

 

I know you think you are saying the same thing but you aren't. What yours does is set up an argument that can only be answered emotionally, which means you can't win.

Again, not here to convince you to change your view on the matter Kerry. I know my audience (and you) and your liberal love too much to think you will change. You won't and by trying to be more eloquent or academic even isn't going to do anything different. Ask anyone here. I'm merely pointing out to you my point of view and like you do, enjoy the banter.

 

I can appreciate your point of view in how to present an argument Kerry, but I already know you buy what I would be attempting to sell so I'm saving time and just being a bit more blunt. Feel free to give people like this a break if you wish. I won't.

 

In your world nothing will change on her end, you'll just fuck it up for everyone else who does parent better. We'll essentially be lowering the bar. Same shit Obama has been doing for his entire term. Lowering the standards and letting those who actually perform well pay the price. Fuck that noise. The world has better things to do than slow down for those that can't or won't keep up. There's a place for them but it's not in the land of the successful. Parents everywhere actually parent well and their kids do in turn have things the lessor parents won't be able to provide. That's life. I just hope this kid grows up stronger and smarter than his mom.