Where the F*** were the parents?? (CAUTION GEETO and TIM quote battle inside)

[TTQ B4U]

And to add....We weren't there...How do we know what happened or exactly how long little johnny took to master ninja his happy 4 year old ass into the gorrilla pit.....I'm just saying it seems most are passing judgement without really knowing what happened.

 

We don't need to know how the kid fell into the exhibit in order to hold the mother accountable. She was the one there responsible for his safety. This "judgement" as you call it, in this case, is based on the end result that a mother failed in her responsibility to keep an eye on her child and by doing so she put his life in danger. She's guilty of child endangerment and that doesn't require evidence of an actual injury only the potential for a harm or injury to the child.

 

.ITs just getting old and I for one am tired of seeing nothing but people bitch and complain about everything yet NEVER offer anything constructive or positive...

 

Holding the parent in this case accountable for the actions of her child is the answer. That is the constructive solution you seek. If she is not held accountable she will never learn. Society has a right to expect that those participating in it will learn from their McSteaks.

[MattKatz]

Once again....This all still goes back to the simple fact that people who don't know are trying to pass judgement and blame. I know its been said that no one in 40 years has ever gotten into this area...but lets play devils advocate. Lets say there was a hole no one could ever access in the last 40 years because a display (or trash can, or food cart, or wall removed from a remodel, etc.) was placed in front of it, and lets just say for example, maybe on this day, the display was moved, removed, or who knows what happened that may have exposed this place for a child to slip through that had never been accessed or accessible before. And lets just say for the sake of argument that this parent had two children, and they are standing there viewing the gorillas all is right in the world, when one child say begins to scream, cry or for some reason garner the immediate need for the attention of the parent. Lets just say that the parent was holding both children's hands....one on their left and one on their right.....The child on the left is the one who makes the "disturbance" and the parent, beinf a parent, immediately attends to the childs needs that seem to be of an emergency situation based on the childs reactions. Lets say the parent kneels down, turns slightly to their left and lets go of the hand of the child on the right because they are in need of both hands for the situation. Now, in that moment the parent lets go of the hand, lets say the other child sees this interesting looking opening and in an instant moves toward it......Now the parent who has knelt down to attend to the ailing child realizes that (lets say) the child had pinched their finger and is going to be fine....so they stand back up to resume the previous position and reach for the childs hand that was ust their only moments ago....and there is no hand, they turn and look down and their is no child. Now, think about all of this happening in a matter of 30 seconds or less.....Is the parent still being negligent?.....Are they a horrible parent? Whos at fault now?

 

What I'm saying is we do not know what happened or what led up to this child getting into someplace that no one had managed to get into in the 40 years of the exhibit, yet we are being awfully fast to place blame and pass judgement IMO. You cannot possibly hold the hand of a child 24/7 no matter how much people want to to try to protect them from harms way. Things do happen, some are completely accidental with no fault really what so ever...Its called life, and things in this life do happen that are not always preventable, and not always explainable. Its easy for people to pass judgement but in this day and age it seems harder for people to consider the reality of life and the fact that everyone should be perfect....Just as they are.

[MattKatz]

We don't need to know how the kid fell into the exhibit in order to hold the mother accountable. She was the one there responsible for his safety. This "judgement" as you call it, in this case, is based on the end result that a mother failed in her responsibility to keep an eye on her child and by doing so she put his life in danger. She's guilty of child endangerment and that doesn't require evidence of an actual injury only the potential for a harm or injury to the child.

 

 

 

Holding the parent in this case accountable for the actions of her child is the answer. That is the constructive solution you seek. If she is not held accountable she will never learn. Society has a right to expect that those participating in it will learn from their McSteaks.

Actually we do need to know how.....Because as I just have shown with an example....Its easy that it could be the fault of someone, or something else. The problem is your already passing judgement and laying blame without knowing what happened by only picking bits and pieces of the information and using that to try to make your point. Sometimes knowing the entire scope of a situation does make all the difference.

[Rocky31186]

TLDR: Mother at fault.

 

 

 

Once again....This all still goes back to the simple fact that people who don't know are trying to pass judgement and blame. I know its been said that no one in 40 years has ever gotten into this area...but lets play devils advocate. Lets say there was a hole no one could ever access in the last 40 years because a display (or trash can, or food cart, or wall removed from a remodel, etc.) was placed in front of it, and lets just say for example, maybe on this day, the display was moved, removed, or who knows what happened that may have exposed this place for a child to slip through that had never been accessed or accessible before. And lets just say for the sake of argument that this parent had two children, and they are standing there viewing the gorillas all is right in the world, when one child say begins to scream, cry or for some reason garner the immediate need for the attention of the parent. Lets just say that the parent was holding both children's hands....one on their left and one on their right.....The child on the left is the one who makes the "disturbance" and the parent, beinf a parent, immediately attends to the childs needs that seem to be of an emergency situation based on the childs reactions. Lets say the parent kneels down, turns slightly to their left and lets go of the hand of the child on the right because they are in need of both hands for the situation. Now, in that moment the parent lets go of the hand, lets say the other child sees this interesting looking opening and in an instant moves toward it......Now the parent who has knelt down to attend to the ailing child realizes that (lets say) the child had pinched their finger and is going to be fine....so they stand back up to resume the previous position and reach for the childs hand that was ust their only moments ago....and there is no hand, they turn and look down and their is no child. Now, think about all of this happening in a matter of 30 seconds or less.....Is the parent still being negligent?.....Are they a horrible parent? Whos at fault now?

 

What I'm saying is we do not know what happened or what led up to this child getting into someplace that no one had managed to get into in the 40 years of the exhibit, yet we are being awfully fast to place blame and pass judgement IMO. You cannot possibly hold the hand of a child 24/7 no matter how much people want to to try to protect them from harms way. Things do happen, some are completely accidental with no fault really what so ever...Its called life, and things in this life do happen that are not always preventable, and not always explainable. Its easy for people to pass judgement but in this day and age it seems harder for people to consider the reality of life and the fact that everyone should be perfect....Just as they are.

[TTQ B4U]

You cannot possibly hold the hand of a child 24/7 no matter how much people want to to try to protect them from harms way. Things do happen, some are completely accidental with no fault really what so ever...Its called life.

 

I see the point you're trying to make but that last phrase is about it not being a fault because life happens isn't going to fly and that's exactly why people are in an uproar. The mother needs to be held accountable.

 

One of the components of charging her with endangerment includes an omission of care by her. To be charged she doesn't have to proactively put a child in danger or a high risk situation but rather she can be charged for failing to do something that she was responsible to do. In the case here, the mother had a responsibility to insure a toddler who can't read nor understand the rules is in her care at all times. There is a presumption in the law that deems this the case without any additional evidence. If the presumption is shown, then the burden shifts to the defendant to disprove the presumption.

 

In the end, she isn't going to go into court and claim "life happens" or "kids will be kids" and expect to get off. The burden will then be on her to prove she was off saving another life or whatever you want to plug in as her excuse. Until then, society has the right to hold her as the responsible party for what happened.

[TTQ B4U]

Actually we do need to know how.....Because as I just have shown with an example....Its easy that it could be the fault of someone, or something else. The problem is your already passing judgement and laying blame without knowing what happened by only picking bits and pieces of the information and using that to try to make your point. Sometimes knowing the entire scope of a situation does make all the difference.

 

No you don't as I've already noted. There is a presumption in the law and in my world day to day that allows me to "pass judgement." The burden now lies with the mother not me or Rocky or anyone else. Until she proves the scope of the situation is different, she is the guilty party and is held accountable. There is no room for "life happens" or "kids do stupid shit" excuses in the law or in life.

 

TL;DR - Mom is responsible for the child; should be held accountable and in the event she has some crazy circumstances, the burden is on her to prove the situation is different than it appears both in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of others with common sense.

Edited May 31, 2016 by TTQ B4U

[TTQ B4U]

All this reminds of me of any number of "youths" that are shot and killed by the police and then their mom goes on TV crying the blame game at cops. That same parent never accepts responsibility for their role in the child's life to insure their 13yr isn't putting themselves in harms way by sneaking out at night with gang-banger friends robbing stores.

 

THAT refusal for parents to parent is what is wrong with society today. Time for society to hold parents accountable for the actions and in-actions in life.

 

Life doesn't just happen and when shit goes wrong, parents need to "account" for what happened and why and in the end own the fact that they are the parent and responsible for their own damn kids. They also need to be "taught" a lesson and held to the expectation that the event that occurred will not be repeated.

Edited May 31, 2016 by TTQ B4U

[RedRocket1647545505]

What ever happened to those wrist leashes my parents used to put on me as a kid?

[Coaster]

The child stated his intentions enough that other people overheard it. Then he carried through.

 

If he stated he was going to stick a fork in a light socket and his mother turned her back and left him with fork in hand then he electrocuted himself would we not blame her?

 

I may not have kids but I know my 3.5yo nephew well enough that if he said he wanted to climb in with the gorillas I'd have him at 100% attention until we were well away from them.

[Sledhead36]

Accidents do happen........apparently this dude accidentally banged this loser 4 times.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pictured-parents-accused-neglect-after-8085810.amp?client=safari

[MattKatz]

Sigh....I can see just in this thread a lot of what is wrong in the world today....Its sad really that people must always be so closed minded to see things only in the way they do....which as we know is ALWAYS CORRECT.

[xlr8tn]

I have 3 kids and currently have a 3 year old. This is an impossible scenario in my family. When in public my kids are on their best behavior and don't do shit unless I allow them too. If they do something it's 100% my fault because they aren't old enough to make good decisions all the time and it's my job to make those decisions for them right now. Accidents happen and all that but if you're in an even border line situation where harm can come to your kids its your responsibility as a parent to be at your best.....I'm guessing that didn't happen here. Someone was busy sucking on a slushy or posting to facebook how kick ass the zoo was instead of watching their kid.

[TTQ B4U]

Accidents do happen........apparently this dude accidentally banged this loser 4 times.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pictured-parents-accused-neglect-after-8085810.amp?client=safari

 

Michelle Gregg later defended her actions on Facebook in a post claiming "accidents can happen."

Nice try there Michelle but accidents don't "just happen" This was a direct result of your "in-action" and lack of parenting of your kid while out in public. People make me fucking sick.

[TTQ B4U]

Sigh....I can see just in this thread a lot of what is wrong in the world today....Its sad really that people must always be so closed minded to see things only in the way they do....which as we know is ALWAYS CORRECT.

 

Sorry but I don't call giving someone a hall-pass on parenting of a child being open minded. Again, I've cited the law and the basis for my opinion. I can't speak for others but just looking at the response to the matter I'm not alone. TONS of what's wrong in the world today is due to lack of parenting and responsibly by people who call themselves parents yet they hardly fit the description of one.

 

Time for them to wake up and realize these things don't "just happen" to them they happen "because of them."

 

I'm guessing that didn't happen here. Someone was busy sucking on a slushy or posting to facebook how kick ass the zoo was instead of watching their kid.

 

^^ this.

[Farkas]

Had this been a story about a boy nearly killed by slipping away from mom and dad and gotten his hands on a loaded firearm, I'm fairly certain no one would have given them a pass like some did in this case of the Gorilla.

[Geeto67]

Sigh....I can see just in this thread a lot of what is wrong in the world today....Its sad really that people must always be so closed minded to see things only in the way they do....which as we know is ALWAYS CORRECT.

 

dude it's Columbus racing...it's basically trolls trying to troll other trolls in the "internet" lobby of just another douchebag motel forum. There are like 5 people that actually say anything serious around here or car related for that matter. Empathy for fellow humans doesn't exist on the internet - and if it does it is often labeled "gay".

 

for example Tim's a pretty sensible guy in real life but his PDQS4 "persona" here would have you believe he has never heard the words "white" and "privilege" used in the same sentence. Seriously, every time he posts something I have to stop myself from even jokingly asking if the red armband goes with everything he owns or does he just not wear it on days when it clashes with his outfit. And yet in real life? absolute sweetheart.

[verse]

Had this been a story about a boy nearly killed by slipping away from mom and dad and gotten his hands on a loaded firearm, I'm fairly certain no one would have given them a pass like some did in this case of the Gorilla.

 

Yeah, people would throw a fit that the child had access to the gun, the parents are responsible of that access. In this case, the Gorilla is the gun, and the person who is responsible for access is the zoo. You shouldn't have to worry about your child being able to climb into a gorilla exhibit. From what I've seen, there is basically a few bushes separating the public from the moat around the exhibit.

[Sledhead36]

Surprise! The mother just hired an attorney to sue the Zoo for not having a safe environment? Why are these morons allowed to use their children as bait to make millions?

[Geeto67]

Surprise! The mother just hired an attorney to sue the Zoo for not having a safe environment? Why are these morons allowed to use their children as bait to make millions?

 

Or....and hear me out here...what if this kid falling in actually is evidence of an unsafe environment? Zoo regulations covering enclosures are kind of dated in that they primarily focus on keeping the captive animal in, keeping the human animal out is a secondary consideration. I don't know that they have kept up with the types of crowds that modern zoos see.

 

I mean this is how things sometimes get safer. Seat belts, airbags, safer fuel cells, and crumple zones in cars didn't just happen because the automobile companies are altruistic, it happened because of the poking and prodding finger of litigation.

[TTQ B4U]

Or....and hear me out here...what if this kid falling in actually is evidence of an unsafe environment? Zoo regulations covering enclosures are kind of dated in that they primarily focus on keeping the captive animal in, keeping the human animal out is a secondary consideration. I don't know that they have kept up with the types of crowds that modern zoos see.

 

Meh....I've been there, in fact was just there this spring. Don't have any photos or videos as the exhibit wasn't active when we were there but here's a video showing it. It's a great and much more user-friendly exhibit than ours. Columbus is nice but there are many others around the country that have way better viewing than Cbus Zoo.

 

https://youtu.be/meh6W-JaEqU

 

In the end, it's sad that this mother didn't keep an eye on her own toddler. Someone could have easily snatched and taken him out of sight. Instead baby mama is likely going to get a settlement for being stupid. Such a great system we have. It encourages stupidity and leads to ruining nice things for the rest of us.

[Sledhead36]

Or....and hear me out here...what if this kid falling in actually is evidence of an unsafe environment? Zoo regulations covering enclosures are kind of dated in that they primarily focus on keeping the captive animal in, keeping the human animal out is a secondary consideration. I don't know that they have kept up with the types of crowds that modern zoos see.

 

I mean this is how things sometimes get safer. Seat belts, airbags, safer fuel cells, and crumple zones in cars didn't just happen because the automobile companies are altruistic, it happened because of the poking and prodding finger of litigation.

 

Yeah right, while certainly possible, not very probable. 37 years without one incident. I call that a pretty good track record.......don't liberalize this and make it everybody's fault but the person who was in charge. I hate victims. Bottom line, listen to her voice in the video, she was no where as nervous as anybody else there. There were other mothers that were frightened for this child and she was cool, calm and collective. She has been a bad mother for a long time. And I believe she rarely know was where the children are.

[Geeto67]

 

In the end, it's sad that this mother didn't keep an eye on her own toddler. Someone could have easily snatched and taken him out of sight. Instead baby mama is likely going to get a settlement for being stupid. Such a great system we have. It encourages stupidity and leads to ruining nice things for the rest of us.

 

Just once Tim I would like to hear you say..."you know, it's sad that this kid got a concussion, and I really feel for this overwhelmed mother trying to manage 4 kids at the zoo." I mean empathy is a real thing, and not just a power prof Xavier has on the x-men.

 

Also I completely forgot you are a zoo enclosures expert and your opinion that it is "more user friendly" means that it is safe. Come on man, it's a thing designed to interact with kids, designers need to be looking at that part more closely and sometimes litigation forces them to do that.

[Sledhead36]

If this is the line of thinking that the world is turning into, I absolutely want nothing to do with it. I've done plenty of crazy things in my life and I always knew that I may get my ass in trouble, but I was accountable. The minute I think the world should start protecting me, from absolutely everything, we should just shut everything down. There will be no more zoos, there will be no more racetracks, there will be no more anything...... Hell, ladder companies or even afraid to make them these days because, of the freaking morons and the shit that they do with them. You have to put so many labels on them to tell people what not to do with the ladder, Darwin is our friend. He makes the stupid people go away. What I find is hilarious, we have over 1000 people a day who die or are injured from texting in a car while driving. But you want to spend a ton of money researching gorilla enclosures, in which there's been one moron in 37 years who got over the rail and actually into the cage....... I would find another cause and focus on that. This one's a pretty closed case.

[DTA09]

As pointed out in an interview I heard yesterday. The exhibit is made more to keep the animals in rather than keep people out.

 

This is the first incident ever at the zoo in over 100 years of operation so I would say the zoo has did it's part to keep people as safe as possible.

[xlr8tn]

The bars at a zoo are meant to keep animals in....not people out. I just have a hard time finding the zoo at fault here for anything. They did their job....they had a reasonable barrier that didn't allow the animals to get near people. It's not their responsibility to keep the people away from the animal.....that falls on the people visiting. If someone comes to your house and sticks a fork in your toaster should you be at fault for leaving the toaster stored to close to the forks or do you expect people in your house to use common sense while visiting?