SloSVTruck Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 just had another electrician come out, He checked everything, said everything is wired right and tight. Said he thinks that it's the transformer as well. I've called the electric company but they aren't going to come out until tomorrow unless I'm willing to pay the 150 dollar "on call" fee. I've now had 3 separate electricians come out and tell me the same thing, they think it's on the electric companies side. When your parents had these issues, did the electric company replace the items that they damaged? So far my battery backup sump pump system is fried ($500), 11 LED light fixtures at 29.99 a piece, blueray surround sound ($500), cable box ($?), roku 3 ($99), random electrical outlets, the outdoor lighting in the garage, and 5 arc fault breakers are now fried. That's just what I've found so far... I'm at a loss how a company that i pay for is going to charge me to come out on the weekend and they are saying this is because I have power even though lights dim and flicker, etc.... Unfortunately they rarely will take the blame for this sort of stuff.... and even if they do good luck getting them to pay for replacing anything. It's a shame like you said we pay these company's all this money for a service and when things like this happen they want to try and shove the expense down our throats. Let us know how it all turns out.... im interested to hear what they find/do. Good luck, maybe just for the sake of things and to prevent further damage..... start unplugging your valuable devices and turn the breakers off to anything thats not really necessary..... Or..... if your already planning to use your insurance anyway..... plug in some more old junk stuff you want replaced and let it rip.... hahahahahah Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cstmg8 Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 No, AEP will claim it's an "act of God" that they can't control, like freeze and thaw. Home owners insurance will cover it. Don't be surprised if it takes two trips for them to find an issue. Be persistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Call the electric company back and have them come today. If the problem is on their side either they will waive the fee or you'll be making an insurance claim anyhow. Insurance should pay out for that fee since it will mitigate any further damage. electrician I spoke with said the oncall guy will find every reason in the world to not climb up on the pole to replace the transformer and I will end up getting billed the 150 for sure. I've unplugged most things of value and turned off the breakers. Guy said Consolidated Electric is really bad about that and I'm better off just waiting until tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Unfortunately they rarely will take the blame for this sort of stuff.... and even if they do good luck getting them to pay for replacing anything. It's a shame like you said we pay these company's all this money for a service and when things like this happen they want to try and shove the expense down our throats. Let us know how it all turns out.... im interested to hear what they find/do. Good luck, maybe just for the sake of things and to prevent further damage..... start unplugging your valuable devices and turn the breakers off to anything thats not really necessary..... Or..... if your already planning to use your insurance anyway..... plug in some more old junk stuff you want replaced and let it rip.... hahahahahah Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk LOL, ya we unplugged most things except for tv. I'm running off of battery for my laptop so let's hope that turning my Macbook brightness down will keep it going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 No, AEP will claim it's an "act of God" that they can't control, like freeze and thaw. Home owners insurance will cover it. Don't be surprised if it takes two trips for them to find an issue. Be persistent. I spoke with my wife, she said she will call them 3 times a day until they fix it. (she doesn't work so she has the time to do it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro Posted June 5, 2016 Report Share Posted June 5, 2016 Unfortunately they rarely will take the blame for this sort of stuff.... and even if they do good luck getting them to pay for replacing anything. It's a shame like you said we pay these company's all this money for a service and when things like this happen they want to try and shove the expense down our throats. Let us know how it all turns out.... im interested to hear what they find/do. Good luck, maybe just for the sake of things and to prevent further damage..... start unplugging your valuable devices and turn the breakers off to anything thats not really necessary..... Or..... if your already planning to use your insurance anyway..... plug in some more old junk stuff you want replaced and let it rip.... hahahahahah Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Bruh this is every single company in the unites states right now. Insurance companies included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 electric company just came out. Of course nothing was acting up...said he's going to go back through my usage history and see what he sees, but said everything looks good... trying to blame the cable going to the house as the issue... said the neutral wire might be getting destroyed since it's a buriable. He's going to put a voltage tester on the line as well as have someone go and take a look at the transformer. He also recommended that I get rid of the Arc Fault breakers in the house. Said they've been known to cause problems. Stay tuned. It doesn't really seem like I'm making much progress other than I replaced alot of the damaged stuff yesterday and the power has come back to at least normal results. He did ask if we had a lightning strike or something which I don't know the answer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 electric company just came out. Of course nothing was acting up...said he's going to go back through my usage history and see what he sees, but said everything looks good... trying to blame the cable going to the house as the issue... said the neutral wire might be getting destroyed since it's a buriable. He's going to put a voltage tester on the line as well as have someone go and take a look at the transformer. He also recommended that I get rid of the Arc Fault breakers in the house. Said they've been known to cause problems. Stay tuned. It doesn't really seem like I'm making much progress other than I replaced alot of the damaged stuff yesterday and the power has come back to at least normal results. He did ask if we had a lightning strike or something which I don't know the answer to. It is possible that the wire may have gotten messed up. I almost always recommend running conduit from the house to the pole when doing things like that..... They should be able to put some sort of meter on the lines to monitor the voltage and see the dips.... As far as the arc faults..... if you've never had any issues with them i woulf leave them alone. When they first came out they were giant pieces of crap.... and i still say they are just a big money scam from the manufacturers. But.... the new codes pretty much mandate everything in the house on an arc fault, the newer ones are alot better and can actually prevent issues from happening. Least it sounds you got a tech that is trying to figure it out... Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Was it wet or raining when the issue was happening??? Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Electric company came back out, they tested the lines from the pole to the house, etc... said lines test fine. They put a meter that measures load and put load on it... came out fine. They said the transformer is overloaded in the winter time, but summer it's fine. They put me on a list to replace the transformer, but said the transformer shouldn't be the issue. They did recommend that I get rid of the Arc Fault breakers as soon as possible. I'm thinking that's my next step at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Was it wet or raining when the issue was happening??? Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk the random power flux is any weather, when shit start popping, it was saturday when we had some rain. Nothing was flooded, but the ground was wet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 They did recommend that I get rid of the Arc Fault breakers as soon as possible. I'm thinking that's my next step at this point. I can't believe the power company said this, it's code now to have them, like SloSVTruck said. It's honestly downright irresponsible for them to suggest this. I can't imagine any licensed electrician would do this as it won't be up to code. So they are saying to do it yourself or have a handyman do it. Then when your house burns down the insurance company will say it's because you took your arc faults out the electric company will act like they would never tell you that. It might be an OK idea for trouble shooting/diagnosis. As a long term solution, I'd tell them to go pound sand and fix their supply. I haven't the faintest idea how a bad AFCI would cause issues on the incoming legs of your supply. Down stream, yes, but upstream, that would be a little strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 I can't believe the power company said this, it's code now to have them, like SloSVTruck said. It's honestly downright irresponsible for them to suggest this. I can't imagine any licensed electrician would do this as it won't be up to code. So they are saying to do it yourself or have a handyman do it. Then when your house burns down the insurance company will say it's because you took your arc faults out the electric company will act like they would never tell you that. It might be an OK idea for trouble shooting/diagnosis. As a long term solution, I'd tell them to go pound sand and fix their supply. I haven't the faintest idea how a bad AFCI would cause issues on the incoming legs of your supply. Down stream, yes, but upstream, that would be a little strange. Morrow county has no codes... and I've now had 4 certified professionals all tell me the same thing, get rid of the arc fault breakers. Another suggestion I got was to put a ground rod onto my sub panel for the hot tub and pool. (I have ground rods for the pool already, but no ground rods going directly into the sub panel.) I did notice that we had a little bit of rain just now and my UPS decided to beep at me telling me that there was a drop in voltage. Not really sure what could have caused that besides that the UPS is running off of one of the Arc fault breakers. I'm thinking my next steps would be to replace the breakers and put a ground rod onto that sub panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 Morrow county has no codes... and I've now had 4 certified professionals all tell me the same thing, get rid of the arc fault breakers. Another suggestion I got was to put a ground rod onto my sub panel for the hot tub and pool. (I have ground rods for the pool already, but no ground rods going directly into the sub panel.) I did notice that we had a little bit of rain just now and my UPS decided to beep at me telling me that there was a drop in voltage. Not really sure what could have caused that besides that the UPS is running off of one of the Arc fault breakers. I'm thinking my next steps would be to replace the breakers and put a ground rod onto that sub panel. Honestly.... morrow county not having codes doesn't matter.... its code pretty mucv everywhere else and people dont have these sort of issues..... it really sounds like a feed issue because the whole house is acting wierd..... You said you only have what 6 arc faults or so???? Probably for all the bedrooms and smoke detectors? Anything else will have no effect from the arc faults.... You was talking about the microwave making the fan spin faster? After doing further research it made a little more sense to me..... the microwave should be on its own circuit seperate from the bedroom fan which is probably on an arc fault. When you ran the microwave it probably caused a phase imbalance from the neutral not having a gooe connection somewhere... im guessing those two circuits are on seperate phases.... when the microwave was turned on it caused the voltage to spike on the opposite leg which made the fan spin faster..... At least thats a theory that made sense to me..... The ground rod for the hot tub shouldn't matter.... and if im not mistaken is actually a bad idea.... the hot tub panel is considered a sub panel which means it should have all its conductors going back to the main panel and have seperate grounds and neutrals (which from the way you described the install it sounds like its correct) if you add the ground rod to that panel and something shorts out it could bypass the breaker its supposed to trip because its not going to the correct ground path..... As far as them testing the lines.... i thought the only way to check for small shorts and things was to hook up a megger to the lines which if they did that they would have had to disconnect all wires going to the transformer and to the meter..... Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 6, 2016 Report Share Posted June 6, 2016 I can't believe the power company said this, it's code now to have them, like SloSVTruck said. It's honestly downright irresponsible for them to suggest this. I can't imagine any licensed electrician would do this as it won't be up to code. So they are saying to do it yourself or have a handyman do it. Then when your house burns down the insurance company will say it's because you took your arc faults out the electric company will act like they would never tell you that. It might be an OK idea for trouble shooting/diagnosis. As a long term solution, I'd tell them to go pound sand and fix their supply. I haven't the faintest idea how a bad AFCI would cause issues on the incoming legs of your supply. Down stream, yes, but upstream, that would be a little strange. Yep.... if an arc fault was bad it should only effect the circuits directly tied to it.... and typically they will trip out if anything is funny, they are very sensitive. Never heard of them doing anything like the issues you are having... Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Honestly.... morrow county not having codes doesn't matter.... its code pretty mucv everywhere else and people dont have these sort of issues..... it really sounds like a feed issue because the whole house is acting wierd..... You said you only have what 6 arc faults or so???? Probably for all the bedrooms and smoke detectors? Anything else will have no effect from the arc faults.... You was talking about the microwave making the fan spin faster? After doing further research it made a little more sense to me..... the microwave should be on its own circuit seperate from the bedroom fan which is probably on an arc fault. When you ran the microwave it probably caused a phase imbalance from the neutral not having a gooe connection somewhere... im guessing those two circuits are on seperate phases.... when the microwave was turned on it caused the voltage to spike on the opposite leg which made the fan spin faster..... At least thats a theory that made sense to me..... The ground rod for the hot tub shouldn't matter.... and if im not mistaken is actually a bad idea.... the hot tub panel is considered a sub panel which means it should have all its conductors going back to the main panel and have seperate grounds and neutrals (which from the way you described the install it sounds like its correct) if you add the ground rod to that panel and something shorts out it could bypass the breaker its supposed to trip because its not going to the correct ground path..... As far as them testing the lines.... i thought the only way to check for small shorts and things was to hook up a megger to the lines which if they did that they would have had to disconnect all wires going to the transformer and to the meter..... Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk yes, the microwave is on it's own breaker. I would agree, I think something else is going on here. I just have absolutely no idea what. The electric company did cut the power to the house to do their testing. I also looked in the meter tonight and there actually isn't even a ground wire run from the box into the house. There is a ground on the side of the house, but the ground and neutral are tied together in the box. Because of this, I'm not really sure what a ground rod next to the sub panel would even do for me. Honestly at this point, we are all just taking guesses. No one can find anything wrong. All connections coming to and from the house are tight, everything in the box is tight. We replaced the Arc Fault breakers with standard breakers tonight just to see if my issues persist or go away. 2 of the arc fault breakers actually smelled burnt. (the one in the dining room where absolutely nothing is plugged in and the one in the master bedroom where everything is behind surge protectors) At this point, I've had 3 separate electricians through my house as well as the electric company and no one can find an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I'm done trying to troubleshoot this myself. I need a GOOD electrician who can figure this out. It's been going on for far too long and I'm really not interested in my house burning down. Anyone know of a GOOD electrician? This shit needs to be tracked down and fixed and apparently, I'm not doing a good job of finding one who can track this issue down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 Got ahold of a local electric company (the owner works some crazy hours) and he asked me a bunch of questions over the phone and said it for sure has to be a neutral problem. He's coming out tomorrow afternoon to hopefully figure out what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 yes, the microwave is on it's own breaker. I would agree, I think something else is going on here. I just have absolutely no idea what. The electric company did cut the power to the house to do their testing. I also looked in the meter tonight and there actually isn't even a ground wire run from the box into the house. There is a ground on the side of the house, but the ground and neutral are tied together in the box. Because of this, I'm not really sure what a ground rod next to the sub panel would even do for me. Honestly at this point, we are all just taking guesses. No one can find anything wrong. All connections coming to and from the house are tight, everything in the box is tight. We replaced the Arc Fault breakers with standard breakers tonight just to see if my issues persist or go away. 2 of the arc fault breakers actually smelled burnt. (the one in the dining room where absolutely nothing is plugged in and the one in the master bedroom where everything is behind surge protectors) At this point, I've had 3 separate electricians through my house as well as the electric company and no one can find an issue. If you dont have a disconnect outside the hise before going into your panel it should be a 3 conductor wire going from thr panel into the house, 2 hots and a bare neutral. The ground can be done 2 ways really.... running a single copper wire to a ground rod from the panel (everything would be bonded in the panel then) or by running the single copper wire into the meter and bonding it all there. Sometimes they will use the copper wire line as a ground also...... either of those ways is fine though. Im a licensed electrician been doing it for about 15 years now.... i consider myself pretty good but this problem seems to be intermittent now.... it kind of sounds like moisture/water might have something to do with it.... hopefully this last guy can figure it out.... If not i may be able to come take a look.... at this point id consider it more of a personal challenge to figure it out hahahahahah. Best of luck hope he figures it out. Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) LOL, I hear ya. Last night, everything was dry and we'd notice lights flickering / dimming and the fans slowing and speeding up. I'm not sure how intermittent it is to be honest as we have almost everything except for the essentials turned off up to the house at this point. It is 2 hots and a neutral, at the pole, there's a ground wire that connects to it, and in the basement, there again is a ground wire that connects inside the box to the ground / neutral bars that are bonded together at the bottom. One thing that was brought up to me this morning, as right before the power goes into the house, the power is connected to an electric line that goes out to the garage out back. My question is since that electric spike obviously carried itself out back to the garage, how can I test that electric wire going back to the garage to see if that is the failure point? The electric company was able to hook a machine up at the side of the house, but they won't do it for the garage because it goes into the panel. Edited June 7, 2016 by smokin5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 My thoughts as I've been following this thread: - I wish Josh all the best in figuring this all out. - Members like SloSVTruck are what makes CR such a great community. Thanks, Jon! - As a homeowner, this sounds F**KING TERRIFYING. I'd be sooo nervous of everything exploding that's plugged into a wall... Here's a pic of me at Josh's house: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/54c87a1f69bedd244987fe20-1200-600/better-call-saul-chuck-1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 LOL, I agree with Clay on everything he said. There's a reason why I set my alarm for once an hour and walk the house to make sure nothing has burnt up as well as have only the essentials running and all other breakers turned off and things unplugged. luckily we are getting a few cool days and I'm hoping that by the time that it warms up this weekend, this issue will be resolved. (or we remove our unreplacables and go away on a vacation and let the place burn down) jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 The state of Ohio has building codes, and AFCI are part of them. Morrow county just has no code beyond state code Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 My thoughts as I've been following this thread: - I wish Josh all the best in figuring this all out. - Members like SloSVTruck are what makes CR such a great community. Thanks, Jon! - As a homeowner, this sounds F**KING TERRIFYING. I'd be sooo nervous of everything exploding that's plugged into a wall... Here's a pic of me at Josh's house: http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/54c87a1f69bedd244987fe20-1200-600/better-call-saul-chuck-1.jpg LOL careful now.... dont plug the typewritter in.... or we may lose all history as we know it... bahahahh Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloSVTruck Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 LOL, I hear ya. Last night, everything was dry and we'd notice lights flickering / dimming and the fans slowing and speeding up. I'm not sure how intermittent it is to be honest as we have almost everything except for the essentials turned off up to the house at this point. It is 2 hots and a neutral, at the pole, there's a ground wire that connects to it, and in the basement, there again is a ground wire that connects inside the box to the ground / neutral bars that are bonded together at the bottom. One thing that was brought up to me this morning, as right before the power goes into the house, the power is connected to an electric line that goes out to the garage out back. My question is since that electric spike obviously carried itself out back to the garage, how can I test that electric wire going back to the garage to see if that is the failure point? The electric company was able to hook a machine up at the side of the house, but they won't do it for the garage because it goes into the panel. Can you explain the garage thing a bit more??? The wires come out of the meter to a junction box or something????? Then go underground to say a pole building???? To feed a panel out there???? Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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