Mr. Jones Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 http://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html?m=1 Old but good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 just gonna leave this here.... a good watch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I love when people assume that the NRA is funded by the gun manufacturers. We are talking about US based manufacturing of precision machined parts. Not exactly a combo that is raking in the dough hand over fist these days. Not to mention that there is a 10% excise tax on sales of completed firearms. The NRA has millions of PAYING members that all pony up at least $20 a year. Not to mention the fund raisers and donations they get from their own group of wealthy individuals. Thank you. I can't fucking stand it every time I hear Hitlery get on stage and talk about the NRA lobbying like its something no citizen wants. BREAKING NEWS: It's funded by your own citizens, you dumb bitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 I love when people assume that the NRA is funded by the gun manufacturers. We are talking about US based manufacturing of precision machined parts. Not exactly a combo that is raking in the dough hand over fist these days. Not to mention that there is a 10% excise tax on sales of completed firearms. The NRA has millions of PAYING members that all pony up at least $20 a year. Not to mention the fund raisers and donations they get from their own group of wealthy individuals. It's a combination of paying members, special interests groups, fundraising, and manufacturers. The majority of the money does come from it's members and from charitable contributions ....but...doesn't that make it worse that the NRA is taking their money and using it to keep them uninformed? I am not saying every NRA member is going to suddenly change their mind, but I have to imagine there are some people that disagree with paying to keep information suppressed from them. this is a pretty good article breaking down where the money comes from and how the recent election years have driven donations: http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/ Edit: oops I spoke too soon: http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1 In its early days, the National Rifle Association was a grassroots social club that prided itself on independence from corporate influence. While that is still part of the organization's core function, today less than half of the NRA's revenues come from program fees and membership dues. The bulk of the group's money now comes in the form of contributions, grants, royalty income, and advertising, much of it originating from gun industry sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robochan Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 When guns are banned. http://i.imgur.com/l2kl7ZC.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 17, 2016 Report Share Posted June 17, 2016 On the other hand, if I was standing there pulling my trigger finger in the air with no gun in my hand, I wouldn't kill people. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelliganx1 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 On the other hand, if I was standing there pulling my trigger finger in the air with no gun in my hand, I wouldn't kill people. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people. In 1978 Jim Jones killed 900 people with cool aid and some poison. People don't need guns to kill each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwilli1647545487 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 On the other hand, if I was standing there pulling my trigger finger in the air with no gun in my hand, I wouldn't kill people. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people. So if I put a gun in your hand you would lose all morality and immediately start killing people? Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 So if I put a gun in your hand you would lose all morality and immediately start killing people? Good to know. just trying to prove what a stupid quote the former (in the video) is with an equally stupid quote. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" makes for a dandy T-shirt but the more it gets repeated when a mass shooting happens, the less reasonable debate about how to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 how to keep guns out of the hands of the wrong people occurs. So is anyone who was investigated but not charged a wrong person? In the end the shooter here was a bad dude but from what I've read the FBI didn't find anything to tag him with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiek2000 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Source? Yea, pretty certain that isn't even remotely true... http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/GUNS-IN-OTHER-COUNTRIES-Contact-Violent-Crime-Rates-per-Industrialized-Country.png http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/GUNS-IN-OTHER-COUNTRIES-Firearm-Ownership-and-Homicides-Rates-per-Country.png http://www.gunfacts.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/GUNS-IN-OTHER-COUNTRIES-Australia-Homicides-before-and-after-gun-ban-with-trend-lines.png http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/ all the sources are cited in the bottom of that link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 On the other hand, if I was standing there pulling my trigger finger in the air with no gun in my hand, I wouldn't kill people. Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people. Yes, PEOPLE are the problem, not the object. I will not disagree at all that guns make the process a bit easier, but the constant in this equation is the person part. Here is something to think about for a second: What has changed in this country to cause such an uptick in mass shootings? There have always been guns in this country, heck, a lot of people used to hunt for their own food. Why were there not more mass shootings 30,40, or 50 years ago? What about school violence? Kids used to bring pocket knives to school all the time and we did not have mass stabbings back in the 20s,30s,40s,50s, or 60s did we? I think that we, as a society have changed for the worse. We have allowed "freedom" for people to be assholes, and now we are seeing the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I think that we, as a society have changed for the worse. We have allowed "freedom" for people to be assholes, and now we are seeing the results. Agree. Proof that tolerance can be taken a bit too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 Agree. Proof that tolerance can be taken a bit too far. I would not use the word tolerance, maybe "acceptable behavior" that is now allowed. The problems that leads to any type of violence is really a multi-layered in nature. We have allowed certain things to be come "the norm" and that's how we have landed where we are. There is not object like a gun to blame here people, its us, the humans that have put all the ingredients in this shit stew, turned on the heat, and just kept eating it without trying to fix what's in the fucking pot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buelliganx1 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) I watched a video the other day that was trying to equate the increase of mass murders to the end of"assault" weapons ban in 2004 so I did a little quick googling to see what other events happened in 2004 because I'm old and have ashitty memory. Well guess what else happened in 2004? Facebook was launched. I'm not trying to blame anything on Facebook but I could see a valid argument that we as a society just weren't prepared for THAT kind of social interaction. I think people had a hard time dealing with Facebook warriors as well as Facebook bullying and just didn't know how to deal with it. Never before could you state your opinion somewhere and literally have someone from anywhere with any social or ethnic background challenge your ideas. I don't know what the answer to all of this is but I do know that compared to the number of legal gun owners in this country the number of them that use them illegally is microscopic and I'm pretty tired of being viewed as some kind of scared psychopath just because I own guns just like I'm sure every Muslim is tied of being looked at like a terrorist. Edited June 18, 2016 by buelliganx1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I watched a video the other day that was trying to equate the increase of mass murders to the end of"assault" weapons ban in 2004 so I did a little quick googling to see what other events happened in 2004 because I'm old and have ashitty memory. Well guess what else happened in 2004? Facebook was launched. I'm not trying to blame anything on Facebook but I could see a valid argument that we as a society just weren't prepared for THAT kind of social interaction. I think people had a hard time dealing with Facebook warriors as well as Facebook bullying and just didn't know how to deal with it. Never before could you state your opinion somewhere and literally have someone from anywhere with any social or ethnic background challenge your ideas. I don't know what the answer to all of this is but I do know that compared to the number of legal gun owners in this country the builder of them that use them illegally is microscopic and I'm pretty tired of being viewed as some kind of scared psychopath just because I own guns just like I'm sure every Muslim is tied of being looked at like a terrorist. Not just Facebook, but the 24 hour news media cycle. Infamy is all but guaranteed, and for a small pathetic mind that is capable of committing such an atrocity, infamy is often the end game. That's why, IMO, you have hypocritically religious zealots using ISIS and Islam to, in their minds, lend validity to their acts. In their mind it makes them part of something bigger, rather than just some mentally diseased asshole with a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8tn Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 I would not use the word tolerance, maybe "acceptable behavior" that is now allowed. The problems that leads to any type of violence is really a multi-layered in nature. We have allowed certain things to be come "the norm" and that's how we have landed where we are. There is not object like a gun to blame here people, its us, the humans that have put all the ingredients in this shit stew, turned on the heat, and just kept eating it without trying to fix what's in the fucking pot... interesting point and one I hadn't really thought of....may have to adopt this one. It makes perfect sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC K9 Posted June 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Honestly, I have been around guns from one extent to another. I grew up hunting. I am not a gun nut. I only own a few. I view them like I view all the tools in my garage. They are just another tool, with certain purposes, and when not used properly, people can get hurt. I do not own an AK, AR, or anything like that. A couple hand guns, a .22, shotguns here and there, etc. That being said, I have kicked around buying an AR because I can, and they are fun to shoot. Now, flame suit on: do I think the average citizen should be allowed to walk into a store and buy an AR, AK, or similar firearm? Not really. I don't think items like that should have ever been allowed to be available to the general market in the first place. But because they were, now we find ourselves in the situation we do now. Most people that will buy them are "good" people. But I get sick of hearing "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Yeah, that's true, but the amount of damage those people are able to inflict is FAR greater with an AR and 5 30rd mags, than if they were to have a Remington 870 wing master with 5 rounds. I liken it to pit bulls, and other powerful breed dogs. Anybody can get them. And the dogs in and of themselves are fine. I can't say I have an issue with any breed. But the problem is, anybody can "breed" them, they get sold for cheap, and you get bad owners. When you have bad owners, you have said powerful breeds attacking other people or dogs. Is it the dogs fault? Nope. It's the retards that own them. But here is the thing, when a pit, rott, etc gets shitty, it is able to inflict FAR more damage than your stupid min pin, chihuahua, scottish terrier, etc. (All of which I have had act aggressively far more often that "powerful" breeds). But when your grandmas spoiled shitty little min pin bites you, what? You get a little bit of blood on your finger. Wash it out, put on a band aide, and you are fine. When Grandma's shitty pit bites you, the damage is FAR worse. The point is, since we as a species are pretty crappy and we refuse to self-regulate ourselves anymore in most aspects of our lives, and it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone else, should that one person have the ability to ruin it to the extent that they currently can as opposed to there being regulations in place to help limit said damage? How many people would have died at Pulse if the guy only had access to shotguns that hold 5 rounds? 10? 15? Side note, I still don't get why I can carry an ar-15 down the street, but I can't legally carry a sword... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 What has changed in this country to cause such an uptick in mass shootings? There have always been guns in this country, heck, a lot of people used to hunt for their own food. Why were there not more mass shootings 30,40, or 50 years ago? The news cycle and the fact we now loosely classify them as mass shootings instead of just tying them to the activity of the shooter. That's it. there have been mass killings in this country since there have been guns in this country, but it has only become more noticeable since they went from local news to national. I think we used to call them massacres back then. August 1st This year marks the 50th anniversary that Charles Whitman killed 14 people (plus his mother) from a tower on the UT Austin campus. Did you think he was the first? He wasn't even the only that year (the Rose-Mar college of beauty shooting happened just 3 months later). In April of that same year in my hometown of Long Island, a teacher was fatally wounded trying to stop a student from gunning down his classmates with a shotgun. We are just talking about 1966 here and mass shootings at schools (it's an easier stat to find). I would love to see what the statistics are if there is even really an uptick - but oh wait, NRA is still de-funding gun research. What about school violence? Kids used to bring pocket knives to school all the time and we did not have mass stabbings back in the 20s,30s,40s,50s, or 60s did we? yes we did. it just wasn't national news. The "good ol' days" really weren't that "good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/ all the sources are cited in the bottom of that link. :lolguy::lolguy::lolguy::lolguy: Thank you for doing exactly what I had hoped for, I had a good laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 The worst school massacre in U.S. history didn't even involve a gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Aren't ~75% of all homicides committed with a pistol? Why aren't we going after those? Answer: we aren't, yet. Lets get the 'scary' ones off the street that contribute to <1% of homicides, because that makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8tn Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 Honestly, I have been around guns from one extent to another. I grew up hunting. I am not a gun nut. I only own a few. I view them like I view all the tools in my garage. They are just another tool, with certain purposes, and when not used properly, people can get hurt. I do not own an AK, AR, or anything like that. A couple hand guns, a .22, shotguns here and there, etc. That being said, I have kicked around buying an AR because I can, and they are fun to shoot. Now, flame suit on: do I think the average citizen should be allowed to walk into a store and buy an AR, AK, or similar firearm? Not really. I don't think items like that should have ever been allowed to be available to the general market in the first place. But because they were, now we find ourselves in the situation we do now. Most people that will buy them are "good" people. But I get sick of hearing "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Yeah, that's true, but the amount of damage those people are able to inflict is FAR greater with an AR and 5 30rd mags, than if they were to have a Remington 870 wing master with 5 rounds. I liken it to pit bulls, and other powerful breed dogs. Anybody can get them. And the dogs in and of themselves are fine. I can't say I have an issue with any breed. But the problem is, anybody can "breed" them, they get sold for cheap, and you get bad owners. When you have bad owners, you have said powerful breeds attacking other people or dogs. Is it the dogs fault? Nope. It's the retards that own them. But here is the thing, when a pit, rott, etc gets shitty, it is able to inflict FAR more damage than your stupid min pin, chihuahua, scottish terrier, etc. (All of which I have had act aggressively far more often that "powerful" breeds). But when your grandmas spoiled shitty little min pin bites you, what? You get a little bit of blood on your finger. Wash it out, put on a band aide, and you are fine. When Grandma's shitty pit bites you, the damage is FAR worse. The point is, since we as a species are pretty crappy and we refuse to self-regulate ourselves anymore in most aspects of our lives, and it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone else, should that one person have the ability to ruin it to the extent that they currently can as opposed to there being regulations in place to help limit said damage? How many people would have died at Pulse if the guy only had access to shotguns that hold 5 rounds? 10? 15? Side note, I still don't get why I can carry an ar-15 down the street, but I can't legally carry a sword... me and you think exactly alike.....that's been my stance for years. I hunt so it always feels like a true double edged sword and that I'm being a traitor to my fellow gun owners but I really see no useful purpose to own an assault rifle....or pistol for that matter. I just have no use for either. I've also thought for awhile that hunting should be mandatory for every kid from 9-18 years old. There would be a lot more people around that had a greater respect for life and firearms if that were the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted June 21, 2016 Report Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Honestly, I have been around guns from one extent to another. I grew up hunting. I am not a gun nut. I only own a few. Same. the amount of damage those people are able to inflict is FAR greater with an AR and 5 30rd mags, than if they were to have a Remington 870 wing master with 5 rounds.Yet shot guns are involved in murdering more people each year than all rifles combined. How many people would have died at Pulse if the guy only had access to shotguns that hold 5 rounds? 10? 15? He probably would have blown the place up or set it on fire / both. Loons like this guy aren't going to be limited by our laws. Edited June 21, 2016 by TTQ B4U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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