Between two ferns: Clinton Edition

[Mojoe]

I had a few minutes to kill and enjoyed spinning your words in a quote, as you so often do. Enjoy your weekend.

[Geeto67]

I had a few minutes to kill and enjoyed spinning your words in a quote, as you so often do. Enjoy your weekend.

 

Minute MURDER!!!!!!

 

just kidding. you as well. bummed nobody wanted to touch my twilight zone reference.

[zeitgeist57]

pandering....effective campaigning via pop culture media....6 of one half a dozen of the other....comme si comme ca.

 

honestly I find regular people's reaction to the politicians way more offensive than anything either of them have said...but then again the monsters are due on maple street.

 

I think that "effective campaigning" is specifically why this thread was created. I would question how many millennials were pulled to Hillary's Dark Side from her performance on a Funny or Die ad. The world may never know.

 

Not her first effort to pander, and it's still just as ineffective and unmemorable as it was from 21 years ago.

 

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/23/495172227/watch-20-years-before-two-ferns-hillary-clinton-played-forrest-gump

 

Kerry, if she is such a great candidate, and Donald Trump is so bad, why is it so neck-and-neck? You wanna take the low road and say 50% of America is a basket of deplorables? You know you want to. C'mon, it'll make you feel better saying that half of the polled public is stupid/misinformed/bad instead of agreeing that Hillary is actually just as unpalatable - maybe even moreso - than Trump.

[Geeto67]

I think that "effective campaigning" is specifically why this thread was created. I would question how many millennials were pulled to Hillary's Dark Side from her performance on a Funny or Die ad. The world may never know.

no but it will have enough info to make an educated guess after the election. Still I think we can all agree it wasn't the "safe" or traditional thing to do.

 

 

Kerry, if she is such a great candidate, and Donald Trump is so bad, why is it so neck-and-neck?

Because the "popular" ratings like the gallup poll are often so far off as to be largely ineffective as a barometer of who will win the electoral college vote. 4 times the president has lost the popular vote and won the electoral vote outright, and many more times has the Gallup pole or it's historical equivalent been wrong about the next president (ever see the Dewey beats Truman headline?). Even when it gets it right it's often off by a margin of 10% or more (e.g. Mitt Romney had 48% popular vote but actually a 38% electoral college vote).

 

 

You wanna take the low road and say 50% of America is a basket of deplorables?

Nope, and I am pretty embarrassed for her that she took that path. It's unbecoming of what we expect of a world leader. I mean, I am not saying it isn't necessarily false as many, many, many left leaning news sources have pointed out (e.g. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/09/trump_s_basket_of_deplorables_hillary_clinton_was_right.html) or true, but it's the kind of dividing comment this election didn't need. It is the kind of shitty throw away joke her campaign didn't need because it does more harm than good and further polarizes the country. I mean, she has some traditional republican leaders pulling for her against trump now, why dis-enfranchise them.

 

You know you want to. C'mon, it'll make you feel better saying that half of the polled public is stupid/misinformed/bad instead of agreeing that Hillary is actually just as unpalatable - maybe even moreso - than Trump.

 

I think there is a portion of the population that is extolling hate against her purely because she is a woman and no other reason. I don't know how large but it is significant to be noticed. I don't believe that a man with her previous experience would have had nearly as difficult time or as polarizing a reaction.

 

I think you are being generous when you say half. I think it's much larger than that, and I include myself in those numbers. I work very hard to be more informed than most and the reality is unless you are part of the political machine, you or I haven't the first idea how the machine really works. Our educational system is a real let down in this area, and the ugly race it has been hasn't helped one bit. Is she just as unpalatable? eh....maybe she doesn't say nearly as much racist or sexist, or wildly ugly things as trump and that gives her a slight edge, but no politician is really palatable. least of all presidential nominees. Remember the 2000 election? what a race to the bottom that was. or how about the 1988 election between Dukakis and Bush....yeesh (remember when being a "card carrying member of the ACLU" was an insult?). Being uninformed is not a "deplorable" thing here - the deck is stacked against and the politicians want us to be ill informed and vote with our emotionally manipulated hearts.

 

What is deplorable is the nature in which regular folks seem to be treating each other on both sides of the aisle. I applaud Trump for "speaking his mind" in a very polished arena and exposing the true flaws in the political system, but I can't pretend his message isn't one of hate. I love that he single handily destroyed the republican party and brought the dissatisfaction of the American people with their political system to the forefront as a real issue. I just wish he hadn't done it at the cost of exposing how ugly and divided this country still is on key issues of civil rights and liberties.

[zeitgeist57]

You cannot mandate social acceptance, and criminalizing violation of civil liberties will only radicalize the fringe.

 

I think Hillary's inability to bring voters away from Trump shows her laughable abilities. She's not "of the people"...she needs to throw position and threats around to garner respect and remain above the law to get her way. There's no "Hope and Change" with Hill, and that's sad: that campaign slogan worked for Obama but died unproven as policy change in the last 8 years of his presidency. Maybe another stance will resonate with voters.............

 

I love hearing people say how broken the system is...but Trump isn't the guy for them. I get that, but how long are you going to wait for the right candidate to come along and shake things up? If it's not Trump, why is it not Hillary or Gary Johnson? Or Bernie?

[Geeto67]

You cannot mandate social acceptance, and criminalizing violation of civil liberties will only radicalize the fringe.

I am pretty sure you don't mean how this translates. I guess the best response is...yes but you can't sit back and do nothing either.

 

I think Hilary's inability to bring voters away from Trump shows her laughable abilities as President. She's not "of the people"...she needs to throw position and threats around to garner respect. There's no "Hope and Change" with Hill, and that's sad. I offer that since "Hope and Change" didn't work for Obama, maybe another stance will resonate with voters.............

 

We won't know till the actual election. and at this point I have no confidence in whatever poll numbers are right now because the "leader" is well within the margin of error.

 

Hope and change didn't work for the guy who got elected for 2 terms? seems like a pretty effective campaign strategy to me.

 

I love hearing people say how broken the system is...but Trump isn't the guy for them. I get that, but how long are you going to wait for the right candidate to come along and shake things up? If it's not Trump, why is it not Hillary or Gary Johnson? Or Bernie?

 

Who says shaking things up necessarily leads to winning an election? Trump is certainly shaking things up and is causing good in that it is showing that there is an alternative strategy for the republican party. I really want him to make the republican party pay for purging the fiscal Conservatives but socially mainstream politicians from their rolls in the 1980s, and the only thing that makes me sad is that it has taken 30 years for that retribution to come. It's what they get for deciding to suckle the fetid teat of hatred and bigotry disguised as moral and religious conservatism (not saying all religions are bad, but the mega churches that donate heavily to the republican party to further suppress gays, racial minorities, jews, and women certainly are). I want him to shake things up in the party itself, but because of his own prejudices I just don't want him to win.

 

Here is what I am hoping will happen: republicans lose the next election, the republicans will eschew the morally righteous nutjobs and pick someone who is likeable, socially mainstream, and fiscally conservative where it counts. Preferably someone with armed service experience, esp navy. That kind of candidate would be a juggernaut against any democratic opponent, incumbent or otherwise. They renew their image and selectively pick the battle ground so as not to pull the mainstream right more right, but pull the just left of center to their side of the line. If they do that they will set them selves up for a dynasty.

 

what will probably really happen is the old guard will close ranks to outsiders and continue to throw the unlikeable unpalatable socially whack-a-doodle candidates like Ted Cruz against the wall like so much sit com spaghetti just to see if it sticks (#laverneandshirleyreference) while continuing to advocate the suppression of civil rights religious donors want, all while fondling their old balls to squeeze ever last cent out of their paid for hate speak. The country has changed and unfortunately the current conservative agendas are coming down on the wrong side of history.

 

At this point I am riding it out. Don't care who is leading and will just let the tale of the tape be the thing that settles it in November.

[cdk 4219]

Thanks Hillary, just got my affordable health insurance bill $980 per month for 3 people in good health. This has been the affordable way to triple my bill in 6 years. Keep dropping coverage to make it "affordable" , but it guess I will have to work harder to pull everyone else up the hill of shit. And by the way if you haven't noticed Geeto has no head in the cloud, it is up his rear end. Hopefully he has great Obamacare for his head extraction.

[TTQ B4U]

Hope and change didn't work for the guy who got elected for 2 terms?

 

worked for him but not for the country or the people. he's been a bag of turds for us as a country. we've effectively lowered the bar and did so on the backs of the middle class and she's out to screw those who actually are successful.

[gillbot]

tl;dr

[zeitgeist57]

That's what I meant about "Hope and Change": very effective campaign strategy for Obama, but given the state of race relations, pay equality for women, and the socioeconomic income gap, it's failed the country over the last 8 years.

 

Dems are running out of nice, "kum-ba-ya" ideas to preach about that haven't already been unfulfilled in this country. At least Bernie and Elizabeth Warren preach knocking down the establishment and free everything for everyone...and even that's not garnering enough popularity.

[Geeto67]

Thanks Hillary, just got my affordable health insurance bill $980 per month for 3 people in good health. This has been the affordable way to triple my bill in 6 years. Keep dropping coverage to make it "affordable" , but it guess I will have to work harder to pull everyone else up the hill of shit. And by the way if you haven't noticed Geeto has no head in the cloud, it is up his rear end. Hopefully he has great Obamacare for his head extraction.

 

You live in Dublin, you can afford it. :p

 

 

 

 

he's been a bag of turds for us as a country. we've effectively lowered the bar and did so on the backs of the middle class and she's out to screw those who actually are successful.

 

You can say that about every president. Literally every goddamn one since Carter.

 

Tim the only thing that disappoints me more than your angry misogyny toward Clinton, is your largely unspecified aggression toward the current president. No politician is ever going to back your political leaning. You should take up golf instead.

[Geeto67]

That's what I meant about "Hope and Change": very effective campaign strategy for Obama, but given the state of race relations, pay equality for women, and the socioeconomic income gap, it's failed the country over the last 8 years.

We've made more progress on these issues in the last 8 years than in the 20 preceding it. If you were expecting total eradication of those problems then your expectations are too high. Also a good portion of those things aren't really in the presidents job description, I mean he can support them when they come up and propose limited legislation, but he still needs congress to do the heavy lifting. If anything has failed the country it's obstructionism in congress people.

 

 

Dems are running out of nice, "kum-ba-ya" ideas to preach about that haven't already been unfulfilled in this country. At least Bernie and Elizabeth Warren preach knocking down the establishment and free everything for everyone...and even that's not garnering enough popularity.

 

That's not actually what they are advocating, but that's what it sound like to people whose dicks still get rock hard with rage when someone mentions communism. The general public is impatient, and progress is slow. If we stop the momentum on one thing it can take 20 years to get it back.

[TTQ B4U]

Tim the only thing that disappoints me more than your angry misogyny toward Clinton, is your largely unspecified aggression toward the current president. No politician is ever going to back your political leaning. You should take up golf instead.

 

Misogyny? Really? Try again. She's a liar and a fraud who thinks her shit doesn't stink and that she's entitled to do whatever she wants. Could care less that she has tits.

 

Obama..... You weren't here when I raged on the people of America falling for his BS back in 08. I won't rehash all that but he's lived up to everything said back then. The shit space that many are in and where they were ones that voted for him deserve what they've got....thus thanks Obama.

Save

[TTQ B4U]

That's what I meant about "Hope and Change": very effective campaign strategy for Obama.....but it's failed the country over the last 8 years.Dems are running out of nice, "kum-ba-ya" ideas.

 

^^ this. at some point I would imagine even the dumbest turds supporting Obamafail and Hil liar y will have to admit it's time to deliver results and time to solve real-world problems. who knows though, maybe ignorance and stupidity will ask for four more years of crap.

[Geeto67]

Misogyny? Really? Try again. She's a liar and a fraud who thinks her shit doesn't stink and that she's entitled to do whatever she wants. Could care less that she has tits.

 

 

You called her a bitch in this very thread. Or did you not think that that particular insult was denigrating to women?

[TTQ B4U]

You called her a bitch in this very thread. Or did you not think that that particular insult was denigrating to women?

 

I think I've called you a bitch at some point too No, I don't think calling a woman or a guy a name puts me in a category like that. Time for her to show her Thick NY Skin.

Save

[10phone2]

well this turned into a shit storm. lol

[oh8sti]

Hillary wins and we have a negative generational landslide into the abyss that will be impossible to reverse. We also set a dangerous precedent that if you lie, cheat and are in the right family, you too can achieve great things...or at least get more rich.

 

Trump wins and you have a stall in the social issues like what bathroom do I pee in.

trump isn't acting like he isn't rich and powerful. He is. She requires a special podium for the debates so she doesn't see so insignificant on the same stage as him. Pretty interesting. All the fems are going to go nuts when they find out

[cdk 4219]

You live in Dublin, you can afford it. :p

 

 

And you are a lawyer, albeit a shitty one, you pay for it. And please while you are at it return to you democratic shit infested east coast where you are welcome, and your views are invited.

 

You can say that about every president. Literally every goddamn one since Carter.

 

Tim the only thing that disappoints me more than your angry misogyny toward Clinton, is your largely unspecified aggression toward the current president. No politician is ever going to back your political leaning. You should take up golf instead.

 

With this regime , the more I work, the more I get penalized, it's just that simple. The fact of the universe is that bad things will drag good things down to their level, and you and Hillary Clinton's government are no exception. The government as we see it is broken, Hillary clearly will not repair it with her thinking,only drag most down monetarily.

 

$12,000 a year for health insurance is just the beginning, instead of regulating lawyers that suck up billions per year with law suits, and drive all prices to astounding levels because of giving stupid people money for not knowing the coffee was hot when they spilled it on themselves. Just another example of stupid people dragging others down.

[Geeto67]

With this regime , the more I work, the more I get penalized, it's just that simple.

I agree, you should totally stop working more than you do already. stop earning money too. That will teach them.

 

The fact of the universe is that bad things will drag good things down to their level and you and Hillary Clinton's government are no exception.

This is not a fact - its not even a credible opinion. This is just a very pithy cynical phrase with no basis in anything other than stirring up knee-jerk emotional reactions. It is also mathematically impossible since the way averages work good things and bad things tend to come to some agreement in the middle that is neither as good or as bad as either part individually.

 

Also it's cute to think you are the "good" in this. As Nietzsche said: "There is no moral phenomenon, only moral interpretation of phenomenon". I don't know why you include me in the government as if I had anything to do with it.

 

The government as we see it is broken, Hillary clearly will not repair it with her thinking,only drag most down monetarily.

I think you should probably have a basic understanding of how government works before you declare it broken. Actually it is working just the same as it always was, it just isn't serving your interests all that well...what ever you interests actually are because other than Rush Limbaugh regurgitated sound bites I really can't tell from your rambling.

 

 

$12,000 a year for health insurance is just the beginning, instead of regulating lawyers that suck up billions per year with law suits, and drive all prices to astounding levels because of giving stupid people money for not knowing the coffee was hot when they spilled it on themselves. Just another example of stupid people dragging others down.

 

Thank you, you have saved me a bunch of time. I know that once someone brings up the Mcdonald's coffee suit that everything they say regarding tort reform or personal responsibility is literally just merit-less garbage. There are many intelligent arguments for tort law reform, you have literally touched on 0 of them.

 

Also you do realize that the economic detriment the tort system puts on the cost of insurance and heath care makes the case for socialized medicine, right? In countries where there is a national health care plan the costs of medicine and insurance and not substantially affected via tort law settlements.

[Geeto67]

I think I've called you a bitch at some point too

Pretty sure you haven't, and if you had it was likely to challenge my masculinity (even in a playful way) by comparing me to an undesirable female. Bitch has a different meaning for men than it does for women, even you know that.

 

 

No, I don't think calling a woman....a name puts me in a category like that.

 

Actually that's exactly what it does when the insult is one of specific gender bias. That you don't realize it is part of the larger misogynistic problem plaguing America. There are many gender neutral insults you could have used, but you didn't, and there are probably many gender neutral reasons why you probably dislike her but you didn't focus on any of those either.

[TTQ B4U]

Pretty sure you haven't, and if you had it was likely to challenge my masculinity (even in a playful way) by comparing me to an undesirable female. Bitch has a different meaning for men than it does for women, even you know that.

 

end of day Clinton is a a bitch. even the liberal media and anchors have said she looks and acts unhapy a lot. There's no joy or glow about her. her likability aka undesirableness is clear to so many. the more I hear here and see her ads, the more I see this too. she has shared very little outside just trying to bash Trump.

 

the larger misogynistic problem plaguing America.

Nope, don't see it. Certainly not around her. People don't like her for her and her past not because she has tits.

 

why you probably dislike

the main reason I dislike her is she lacks integrity and has air that amplifies her untouchable nature. she needs put in place and it's classic that it's Trump. Even IF she wins he will have put her in place as did Bernie. She won't have won so much as others have lost. sweet justice either way.

 

her track record sucks and her policies for the most part are crap too....and that's including both her lies and the true reality, but it's near impossible even for her to know when she's being real. I'm sure we'll talk in more detail after tonights feature event.

[zeitgeist57]

Please, Tim...the argument Kerry builds against what you say only works if he paints you as sexist. Can't you fall in line like he wants you to? :gabe:

 

Your argument that you don't like Hillary because of her personality and policies will only make Kerry type more.

[Geeto67]

end of day Clinton is a a bitch. even the liberal media and anchors have said she looks and acts unhapy a lot. There's no joy or glow about her. her likability aka undesirableness is clear to so many.

 

So what you are saying is she would be prettier/more likeable/not a bitch if she smiled more often. :dumb:

 

Nope, don't see it. Certainly not around her. People don't like her for her and her past not because she has tits.

Some people don't like her for a variety of reasons that are not gender specific. However, many do not like her for gender specific reasons. I don't think you can speak for everyone in america on this issue so you should probably just stick to talking about yourself and use "I" more often. You claim your reasons are not gender specific yet you make no case for it, and in fact make a case for exactly the opposite by using very gender specific insults.

 

the main reason I dislike her is she lacks integrity

So you like no politician then. I am not sure why people insist on "integrity" in politics that is derived from consistency when really we want our politicians to change their mind and support the ever changing needs of their constituency. The politicians who don't change their positions - history has show to be on the wrong side of issues because they supported things like segregation.

 

 

and has air that amplifies her untouchable nature.

This is probably the most gender neutral thing you have said and probably the most Freudian in that you may be projecting how you interpret strong women. Still, I can't argue with subjective feelings - you are completely entitled to not like her because you think she talks down to you, but at least be honest as to why you feel that way and understand it is specific to you and you alone.

 

she needs put in place and it's classic that it's Trump. Even IF she wins he will have put her in place as did Bernie. She won't have won so much as others have lost. sweet justice either way.

What place is that Tim? in the kitchen making you a sandwitch?

 

her track record sucks and her policies for the most part are crap too....and that's including both her lies and the true reality, but it's near impossible even for her to know when she's being real. I'm sure we'll talk in more detail after tonights feature event.

 

Well it's no secret she's not your candidate, but after talking politics with you Tim I am fairly certain no person in politics today is your candidate. Likeable or not, she is going to be well prepared and prepped. Not that it matters because the Presidential race is the US's most famous popularity contest.

 

 

Can I just point something else out? The two primary duties of the President are to be the Commander in Chief and the head diplomat in foreign relations. all this other stuff considered "hot topics" in the election the president actually has very limited power changing and must rely on congress to do the heavy lifting. Why aren't more people outraged that our leader of the military does not have a military background and has not since 1992. Or is foreign diplomacy and military strategy something most of America just assumes anybody can do?

[zeitgeist57]

Can I just point something else out?

 

NO.

- All of CR