10phone2 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 may as well move this future shit storm to the kitchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 may as well move this future shit storm to the kitchen HAHAHA As soon as the term "liberal shitbird' was used I was hooked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 No you said "literally everything" you fucking derp. Don't type literally everything if you are only referring to certain things. Just because you are mad bro, doesn't make you right. Ok maybe "Literally everything" is a little hyperbolic...how about almost everything they purchase with a very few limited exceptions. There does that satiate your OCD? And for the record the 2 things you're mentioning (groceries and housing) the poor get for freee or pay considerably less for :dumb: Serious question...do you even know what public assistance programs are? or how they work? or do you just hear welfare and work yourself into a frothy hate boner for people getting free money from your taxes? The overwhelming majority of public assistance programs are temporary, not lifetime. That means that things like welfare, WIC, TANF, food stamps, medicaid, and unemployment benefits, etc...you can only get for a limited time and with limited exceptions. And that is provided you meet the qualifications, which many do not. Only about 27% of eligible people actually receive public assistance (Welfare's End, Gwendolyn Mink - Cornell University press) because the system is difficult to navigate and actually structured to dis-incentivize participation in some areas. But tell me again how all the poor are getting "free food". Dude I get it - you have this notion in your head that everyone is lazy and that's why they are poor and I'm sure it is a good fiction that feeds your ego in some way, but it just isn't based on anything factual. There are 100's of studies over the years that all come to the same conclusion over and over again and even indicate the problem isn't improving. but the only lazy person here is you because you don't take the time to actually know what you are talking about. You've bought someone's line of bullshit and built a castle of conservatism on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 In what world do poor people pay more for transportation? The money I've spent on maintenance costs alone in the past year would be enough to buy a bus pass each month for the next five years, or a couple dozen bicycles from Wal Mart. Maybe I'm the poor one. Joke's on me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 And for the record the 2 things you're mentioning (groceries and housing) the poor get for freee or pay considerably less for :dumb: Is this an opinion or a statement of fact? Would it be possible to change your view on this? If so, what would you need to see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 In what world do poor people pay more for transportation? The money I've spent on maintenance costs alone in the past year would be enough to buy a bus pass each month for the next five years, or a couple dozen bicycles from Wal Mart. Maybe I'm the poor one. Joke's on me Hard to take your kids to the doctor on a couple dozen bicycles. It's harder to get a decent job and/or move out of a shithole if you're relying on busses (how's the bus service in Hilliard?) This is 6 and a half pages, challenge yourself to make it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hard to take your kids to the doctor on a couple dozen bicycles. It's harder to get a decent job and/or move out of a shithole if you're relying on busses (how's the bus service in Hilliard?) This is 6 and a half pages, challenge yourself to make it through. I'm not here to shit on the poor, I'm just saying there's no way transportation is more expensive for them, generally speaking. Even if they buy a $500 car that breaks down every month, I don't see how it costs more than your average Joe that puts 2k down on a newer car and spends $350/month in payments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Just because you are mad bro, doesn't make you right. Ok maybe "Literally everything" is a little hyperbolic...how about almost everything they purchase with a very few limited exceptions. There does that satiate your OCD? Serious question...do you even know what public assistance programs are? or how they work? or do you just hear welfare and work yourself into a frothy hate boner for people getting free money from your taxes? The overwhelming majority of public assistance programs are temporary, not lifetime. That means that things like welfare, WIC, TANF, food stamps, medicaid, and unemployment benefits, etc...you can only get for a limited time and with limited exceptions. And that is provided you meet the qualifications, which many do not. Only about 27% of eligible people actually receive public assistance (Welfare's End, Gwendolyn Mink - Cornell University press) because the system is difficult to navigate and actually structured to dis-incentivize participation in some areas. But tell me again how all the poor are getting "free food". Dude I get it - you have this notion in your head that everyone is lazy and that's why they are poor and I'm sure it is a good fiction that feeds your ego in some way, but it just isn't based on anything factual. There are 100's of studies over the years that all come to the same conclusion over and over again and even indicate the problem isn't improving. but the only lazy person here is you because you don't take the time to actually know what you are talking about. You've bought someone's line of bullshit and built a castle of conservatism on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrCkK0pCLVI But to answer your question as to what I think of people on welfare. Yes, there are a good number or them that are lazy and take advantage of the system. If you truly think that everyone on welfare is trying their hardest to create a better life for themselves you're out of your mind. When I was at school at Columbus State many of my classes would start out with 30-35 students and literally the week after the Financial Aid checks were sent out, those same classes cut down to 15-20 people. Coincidence? I think not (real life experience). I have no issue with helping people in need. What I do have an issue with is people viewing things like welfare, section 8 housing and food stamps as entitlements like society owes them. I'm sorry if I am not pro having more kids for more government income. Someone that can't even make enough money to provide for themselves certainly shouldn't be having and "raising" children. No welfare and government handouts are not meant to be permanent but some people create a way of life living off of it. How is that bettering them or society? We clearly need stricter requirements so that people like the girl in the video I posted can't get away with taking advantage of the system like that. Is this an opinion or a statement of fact? Would it be possible to change your view on this? If so, what would you need to see? Well let's see. Who pays for section 8 housing? Who pays for food stamps and WIC? What would change my opinion on that? Eliminating that. That's unreasonable and I don't want programs like that completely eliminated but to say that poor people pay more for housing and groceries is absolutely insane. I'd love to hear your argument though on how poor people pay more for housing and groceries. I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I'm not a big fan of generalizing, but I think that conservatives and liberals often talk past each other on issues like this because they're addressing different levels. Paying 20x the actual cost of tires is fucking stupid, and it really doesn't take much math ability to run the numbers and realize that renting-to-own a set of shitty Chinese 185s is a really poor financial decision. It's hard to have sympathy for someone who can't figure that out, and as much as I wish we weren't wired this way, I can't deny that humans love a good opportunity to point and laugh at dumb people. At the same time, I think it's important for someone in society to fly up to 30,000 ft and take a big picture look at why people do stupid stuff. As an analogy, smoking is also really fucking stupid. It doesn't take much research ability to realize that smoking is bad for you, and expensive, and it's hard to have sympathy for someone who can't figure that out. But smoking is bad for society; it creates expensive health problems, it hampers the quality of the workforce, indoor smoking is a deterrent to commerce, etc. I, for one, am glad as hell that someone took the time to research why people make the dumb-ass decision to start and continue smoking, and then promoted policies, products, and campaigns to get people to quit. I think it's raised the quality of life for the average American, and I think it's made society better. Maybe people would have gotten there on their own eventually, but I think a society were people work on stuff like this from a high level is going to be better than a society where people just shrug and say, "stupid people do stupid things, can't be helped" Likewise, I think it's important that someone is working on understanding why some people will pay so much for some stupid tires. That doesn't mean paying too much for stupid tires isn't stupid, but it doesn't mean we can't take a step back and try to understand a pattern of behavior that seems so illogical to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I'm not here to shit on the poor, I'm just saying there's no way transportation is more expensive for them, generally speaking. Even if they buy a $500 car that breaks down every month, I don't see how it costs more than your average Joe that puts 2k down on a newer car and spends $350/month in payments. It's not the up front cost, it's the opportunity cost. Have you ever ridden the bus to get to work or class? You have to budget a ton more time into your commute, there is an opportunity cost to that. You have to live AND work somewhere that is accessible by public transit, that is an opportunity cost and limits your overall choices. Even buying a $500 car and fixing it when it breaks; you then have to carry insurance which is very expensive in poor areas, you have to buy gas, you have to spend time learning to fix it and there is opportunity cost to all those things. Some people are born on 3rd base and spend their whole lives thinking they hit a triple. My old man was born and raised in the slums of Lisbon til he was 15. Came to America a poor immigrant with only an older brother in this country. You know how he became a wealth manager in charge of a $66bn portfolio at one time? Hard work. Solid education. And a fuckton of help from assistance programs and friends who helped him meet the right people. Nobody does it on their own, and to think poverty is simply a symptom of laziness or stupidity is one of the most arrogant, narcissistic views in the entire world. I struggle to understand how people think that poverty is proof of someone deserving to be poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonrottes Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 I CAN NOT EVEN RIGHT NOW skimming the thread I see some shitting on the poor and stupid... Been there, where a flat causes me to miss work and spending money I don't have. But, if you have $20 get a ride from a friend and take your happy ass to a junkyard and get a used tire.... not idea I know, but $20 for a tire that will last you until you have the cash to get a set of new tires is a hell of a lot better than R2O.... But I guess the majority of poor people are stupid, and this probably looks like a great deal to them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 How did this go from morons paying $1000 more than retail price for $180 tires to assistance programs and welfare? Oh, that's right because Kerry got his feelings hurt again :dumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 It's not the up front cost, it's the opportunity cost. Have you ever ridden the bus to get to work or class? You have to budget a ton more time into your commute, there is an opportunity cost to that. You have to live AND work somewhere that is accessible by public transit, that is an opportunity cost and limits your overall choices. Even buying a $500 car and fixing it when it breaks; you then have to carry insurance which is very expensive in poor areas, you have to buy gas, you have to spend time learning to fix it and there is opportunity cost to all those things. Some people are born on 3rd base and spend their whole lives thinking they hit a triple. My old man was born and raised in the slums of Lisbon til he was 15. Came to America a poor immigrant with only an older brother in this country. You know how he became a wealth manager in charge of a $66bn portfolio at one time? Hard work. Solid education. And a fuckton of help from assistance programs and friends who helped him meet the right people. Nobody does it on their own, and to think poverty is simply a symptom of laziness or stupidity is one of the most arrogant, narcissistic views in the entire world. I struggle to understand how people think that poverty is proof of someone deserving to be poor. Well said. No argument here. I just think statements like "poor people pay more for transportation" are silly at face value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Well let's see. Who pays for section 8 housing? Who pays for food stamps and WIC? What would change my opinion on that? Eliminating that. That's unreasonable and I don't want programs like that completely eliminated but to say that poor people pay more for housing and groceries is absolutely insane. I'd love to hear your argument though on how poor people pay more for housing and groceries. I'll wait. But whether it’s vouchers or public housing, the vast majority of low-income families don’t receive any housing support. The programs are overwhelmed by the demand. Two-thirds of families at or below the poverty guideline receive no assistance at all, according to the 2013 American Housing Survey. About 17 percent get a government subsidy, 15 percent live in public housing, and 1 percent benefit from a rent-controlled unit. In addition, TANF provides a safety net to significantly fewer poor families than in the past: in 2014, just 23 families received TANF benefits for every 100 poor families with children, down from 68 families receiving TANF for every 100 poor families in 1996. Even more troubling, 12 states’ TANF programs reach only ten families or fewer for every 100 poor families. TANF often is these families’ only source of support; without it they would have no cash income to meet basic needs. People consistently overestimate the size and benefit of government assistance programs. Conservative politicians, dating back to Reagan's debunked-but-still-widely-believed "welfare queen," paint a picture of poor people living the good life on the government's dime. Liberals like to think that by voting D or updating their facebook status they've already solved world hunger. Suffice it to say, even taking into account meager government assistance, poor people still pay more for most things. Having shit credit or no credit usually means paying more for a crappy apartment than it's really worth. Rents are high in poor neighborhoods for what you get, and most people don't get help from the government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Some people are born on 3rd base and spend their whole lives thinking they hit a triple. My old man was born and raised in the slums of Lisbon til he was 15. Came to America a poor immigrant with only an older brother in this country. You know how he became a wealth manager in charge of a $66bn portfolio at one time? Hard work. Solid education. And a fuckton of help from assistance programs and friends who helped him meet the right people. Nobody does it on their own, and to think poverty is simply a symptom of laziness or stupidity is one of the most arrogant, narcissistic views in the entire world. I struggle to understand how people think that poverty is proof of someone deserving to be poor. See you said it yourself, hard work and working to improve one's situation. People who live on assistance are worthless, plenty of them go nowhere. Congratulations on your father being one of the few who uses it for what it's for, the only people I've personally seen are simply taking advantage with no motivation or pride in themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Me, I wish I could afford to buy into the bracket of cars that don't depreciate. If you can get the initial capital together, daily drive classic Ferraris or air cooled Porsches and then sell them a couple years later for more than you paid. At least I'm a home owner, so I pay less for housing than schmucks who rent. Stupid schmucks. Don't they know that owning an expensive house in a highly desirable zip code is so much smarter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Some of you should go find a grocery store that's open 3rd shift, and sit there all night with the nighttime cashier the weekend that food stamps cards get renewed. That was my wife's second job when we were struggling, but we weren't getting any assistance. I sat there many nights watching her back because security left at midnight. I have seen many bottom feeders and worthless people, also how disrespectful they are. We worked our way out of that, those people are still there. Fuck them, fuck all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonrottes Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro *raises hand* Yo' I'm the Poor CR Minority... Edited April 12, 2017 by Benjamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supplicium Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Just because you are mad bro, doesn't make you right. Ok maybe "Literally everything" is a little hyperbolic...how about almost everything they purchase with a very few limited exceptions. There does that satiate your OCD? Serious question...do you even know what public assistance programs are? or how they work? or do you just hear welfare and work yourself into a frothy hate boner for people getting free money from your taxes? The overwhelming majority of public assistance programs are temporary, not lifetime. That means that things like welfare, WIC, TANF, food stamps, medicaid, and unemployment benefits, etc...you can only get for a limited time and with limited exceptions. And that is provided you meet the qualifications, which many do not. Only about 27% of eligible people actually receive public assistance (Welfare's End, Gwendolyn Mink - Cornell University press) because the system is difficult to navigate and actually structured to dis-incentivize participation in some areas. But tell me again how all the poor are getting "free food". Dude I get it - you have this notion in your head that everyone is lazy and that's why they are poor and I'm sure it is a good fiction that feeds your ego in some way, but it just isn't based on anything factual. There are 100's of studies over the years that all come to the same conclusion over and over again and even indicate the problem isn't improving. but the only lazy person here is you because you don't take the time to actually know what you are talking about. You've bought someone's line of bullshit and built a castle of conservatism on it. welfare dependency is far from temporary. Generations of families have not gotten off it, that system supports dependency to future generations. ~20% of the total population is on Welfare, 25% of those people are considered dependent by official measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Liberals hate poor people and use their shoulders as their pedestal to push an agenda down the throats of everyone opposed to them. Truly disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 *raises hand* Yo' I'm the Poor CR Minority... There was a huge amount of sarcasm in that image. By reading this place, everyone here is in the upper middle class and 1%. Personally I look at that graph and think, wow is that fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 In what world do poor people pay more for transportation? The money I've spent on maintenance costs alone in the past year would be enough to buy a bus pass each month for the next five years, or a couple dozen bicycles from Wal Mart. Maybe I'm the poor one. Joke's on me ok let's break this down: For cars (yes poor people own cars, some of them even live in them): - Insurance coverage in low income neighborhoods coverage higher which usually leads to more individuals foregoing coverage for loss like theft and accident coverage. so if something happens to the car they are out of pocket. - law enforcement: tends to be higher in low income neighborhoods and can be somewhat aggressive (meaning choosing to write a ticket in legitimately contestable situations) so costs can be higher paying them. Plus once they start building the insurance costs go up. - Maintenance: As most low income people aren't good credit risks they are often out of pocket for car purchases. This means really old unreliable cars with higher maint costs. It also means a lot of deferred maintence and opportunities for things like the rent to own tire dealers. - service: gas stations and business in general tend to have higher operating costs and thus fuel prices tend to be slightly higher. Public Transportation: So a lot of the costs associated with public transit that affect the poor don't come in the form of actual money spent but rather the opportunity cost and the restriction of the job market. - Time: Unless you live in NYC, public transport often takes significantly longer which means that if you are looking to work two jobs there are many that you can't take because it just isn't possible to get between the two places in time. Remember these are sometimes people with families too so time lost on the bus is time that has to be paid in the form of child care or elder care, or some other form of lost time. - Distance: Can't take a job that you can't get to. If there isn't a feasible way to reliably get to the job that means you lose out on the extra pay. Well what if the only jobs available aren't in your local job market? Jobs on bus and train routes tend to have more competitive employment pools than those that are harder to get to. Remember we are talking about low income individuals, most of whom are unskilled, so it isn't like there are a lot of jobs to go around in the first place and a small applicant pool. Competition drives wages down not up so they lose out on the opportunity to make slightly more money in the same job as well. - Reliability: the types of jobs that low income individuals usually qualify for tend to be unforgiving with regard to attendance. So you are at the mercy of the reliability of the public transport system. One of the reasons I chose to ride a motorcycle into Manhattan every day instead of the subway was because every day there was some kind of train delay. It made getting to and from work unpredictable. Also I once had to spend 45 minutes in a crowded broken down subway car standing next to a homeless man who shat himself. My job was pretty forgiving if I was 15 minutes late because the E train broke down, do you think the boss of a guy working at mcdonalds is going to be forgiving when his employee is late because he bus broke down 3 times in one week? no, he can just get another employee who lives on a different bus line or has a car. you can't think of these things in a vacuum, everything interconnects. There are always related costs that don't seem like transportation costs until you realize they are a symptom of only taking one type of transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 How did this go from morons paying $1000 more than retail price for $180 tires to assistance programs and welfare? Oh, that's right because Kerry got his feelings hurt again :dumb: You are the guy who wants to talk politics, this is where that conversation leads every single time. If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you :dumb: If you just want to talk politics because you want internet hand jobs from other conservatives, well then at least be honest to yourself: being a car enthusiast does not automatically mean someone is conservative - we come from all walks of life. Your precious little conservative beliefs are not safe here if you want to express them, people are going to argue with you. So stop getting all butt hurt and being a whiny cry baby when the conversation turns into this and face it like a man. take some responsibility for your actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Because some of CR still doesn't see how it's expensive to be poor and some of you missed the point entirely, here's my explanation. Transportation: Taking the bus cost time and money, when time itself is also money. This leads to the next category. Food/basic supplies: You're poor and don't have a car. You walk or take the bus to a corner store that is more expensive than a grocery store because the bus route to the grocery store in a nice neighborhood is an hour each way. You end up paying more for everything. Housing: You are in cheap housing but your house (and car if you are lucky enough to have one) gets broken into. Regularly. Insurance: What was that about being broken into regularly? There goes your rates. Might as well not have insurance, nothing you own is worth enough to make a claim anyways. Healthcare: You don't have money to get a regular checkup or visit to the dentist. That toothache? Just live with it until it develops into something worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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