Diamonds Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I'd subscribe. It will be months before he gets around to it. He's the typical liberal. Bitches about EVERYTHING yet somehow never has a solution I'm genuinely interested to hear. I know how you solve the problem. It actually would involve "give" on both sides. But, the probl m is that the right side feels like the left side would mistake their "give" for fault and then try to tug it... there actually could be balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Well, First off I don't think there is a singular action that will serve as a "solution" to anything. I spent my life around legislation and how it really works and what I would like to see is some progress and evolution in a certain direction that is more considerate of the needs and wants of the American people. What I would like to see change: - The dickey Amendment to the omnibus spending bill repealed. This amendment prevents the CDC from funding research directly on gun use and gun violence. The current environment is one of ignorance all around because there hasn't been a good study done since 1993. It would be nice to have some actual metrics and to make informed policy decisions instead of being deadlock in this area of extremes. - Following the ban on research being lifted we could have a real analysis on the supply side. I think that the current process of background checks is deeply flawed, but I would like to know what flaws and loopholes are actually contributing to some of the problems and what are not. Right now any legislation is basically just taking a guess as to what will have an effect. Here is an example: We all assume mass shooters are mentally ill because their acts are usually incomprehensible, but we don't know how many of them actually seek treatment to a level that could be used to restrict their access to firearms. A bill right now on restricting access to the mentally ill is a shot in the dark - but with someone looking at the actual numbers that would be generated by renewed research, we could not only justify a bill like that but could narrow it to the types of mental illness history that is most closely linked to incidents. More importantly what if research turns up that most accidental home shootings are because of a certain method of storage? - wouldn't it be nice to be having a conversation about home storage solutions and improved safety training rather than bans on the weapons itself? - On the gun show side of things I would like to see the wild west nature of that give way to responsible selling with background checks, but on the upside I don't see how the interstate commerce restrictions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which the NRA drafted prior to their own internal coup d'etat) are relevant anymore so maybe those could go away. So gun shows start to look more like trade shows and less like dirt floor quasi black market swap meets. - I don't think the federal government should have all the controls. Carry and Conceal laws should remain at the state level because, well, carrying in Wyoming vs carrying in NYC are two different situations and let the local experts handle that. I like the DOT/DMV model for how the background and vetting process works: the federal government sets up a set of recommendations and minimum standards and runs a certification agency for the few items that have heavier restrictions, and the states adopt them and build on it as they see fit. I would like to see as part of those recommendations a standardized and comprehensive training program. this way the states still mantain their own control but the laws become more standard from state to state. Wouldn't it be nice if a CCW in one state was recognized in every one because of standardized training and vetting? Here is what I think will happen: - The NRA will not put up much of a fuss on the banning of bump stocks. To be honest I firmly believe they are relived that the national focus is on that and not AR15s or something they would actually have to take a stand on. So they don't resist as hard and in all likelihood bumpstocks, and maybe trigger cranks, get banned. After that they will then resume their usual fear mongering that every liberal the world over wants to take their guns. - The democrats will continue to not get the voter turn out in repeal of the dickey amendment and gun research will continue to be de-funded. By the way the whole reason it was defunded in the first place was an early 1990's study that said a person with a gun in their home had a greater risk from being shot than a person without. This went against the NRA's hardline narrative since 1977 of people being generally safer with guns (despite there being no actual proof that this assertion is true). - Another mass shooting will happen in 3-6mos and we will start this cycle all over again until the next mid-term election. Depending on how fed up the voter base is with the lack of progress this may allow the democrats to take back the house and senate. I think the GOP is aware of this hence the softer narrative coming out of them following vegas. What we can do: - drop the narrative that the liberals are demanding an outright ban. I think there are more people saying 9/11 was an inside job than there are people calling for a complete and totalitarian gun ban, and it's as equally a crazy proposition. Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the liberal moral compass of the supreme court has outright defended that a ban is unconstitutional and will never happen - you can't get more definitive than that. Most people in the political spectrum want to have this conversation, and you have to be open to this conversation - thinking everyone who wants to talk about gun control is talking about a ban is not being open. - Drop this hardline "2nd amendment must not be infringed" nonsense. 1) the constitution doesn't exist in a vacuum, the founding fathers didn't intend for it to stand alone but rather be the cornerstone on which a body of federal laws and judiciary could be built. Federal laws, including gun control laws, are backstopped by the constitution, they do not exist in spite of it. 2) Even the founding fathers couldn't agree as to the definition of the 2nd amendment. It has come to be defined by the body of federal laws it inspired. The actual narrative of the 2nd as a standalone right comes not from any historical context, but the NRA's Cincinnati Revolution in 1977, led by Harlon Carter. Prior to this the NRA was a sportsman organization and had a seat at the table in shaping all gun related legislation. Post 1977 it has become a hard line political machine seeking to roll back 200+ years of federal laws. - Stop supporting the current administration of the NRA. The NRA used to be a sportsman organization dedicated to positive things like education and sensible discussion that earned them the right to shape legislation and even receive and distribute free surplus ammo and targets from the government. From 1934 to 1977 every gun control bill passed was at least in part written by the NRA, and almost all the training programs came from them. Post 1977 their primary focus is to roll back all the NRA's previous work, spread lies, create a public ignorance, and protect the interests of the industry including helping the transition from rifles to hand guns through their "self defense" narrative (for which again there is no statistical proof). It is the Post 1977 NRA that advocated shooting police and government agents (ruby ridge), they profit from keeping the American public ignorant by lobbying hard for the dickey amendment and continuing to protect it, they continue to run an aggressive media hit campaign that continues to foster the division in this country and makes an enemy out of anybody looking to have a sensible conversation. Does the organization do some good? yes the training, and the work with the boy scouts, and sometimes their lawsuits against some state action are justified (except they contribute to the environment where the states are forced to act in an extreme way so it's hard to chicken or egg those situations), but there is also something very rotten in there and it needs to be excised like a tumor. The organization doesn't need to go away, just be better at representing all owners and not fringe interests politically. ok...so those are my thoughts - have at it CR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustlestiltskin Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 TL&DR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Will read later. Looks like a solid reply Sent from my Galaxy Note 8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99StockGT Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Excellent use of knowledge and research to make a quality reply, enjoy that much more than monkeys throwing poo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Geeto, define the gun show loophole. I'd like to see how much you know. Define it. Tell me why it's a problem. And then I'll reply to your novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Brian Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I'll chime in after Bob's question. Lots of points bought up and almost too much for my love of typing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 I'm a second amendment guy, but isn't the gun show 'loophole' just a private transaction between to people at a gun show? Similiar to a gunbroker deal? Gun show or not, an FFL cannot sell (legally) without a background check. If so, that Crowder video is misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Also, does the anti-gun crowds complete misunderstanding of guns really bother anyone else? It may be knit-picky, but I legitmately heard the argument the other day that "handguns are fine, but we need to ban automatics and semi-automatics". You would think if someone was so passioate about something they would educate themself on the specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 You would think...someone...would educate themself... Therein lies the problem with "both sides". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Also, does the anti-gun crowds complete misunderstanding of guns really bother anyone else? It may be knit-picky, but I legitmately heard the argument the other day that "handguns are fine, but we need to ban automatics and semi-automatics". You would think if someone was so passioate about something they would educate themself on the specifics. Why educate yourself when you can just repeat the incorrect information you hear, read and see? I had a friend of mine from NYC wife told me that I should be considered a felon because I own assault rifles and other guns because it's only a matter of time before I kill someone. She was being dead serious too, it was so bad my friend actually sent me a message apologizing for her insanity. As long as you have people like Hillary, Pelosi, and others bumping their gums it will always be a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Beard Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 http://freedomdaily.com/shocking-vid-2nd-shooter-just-accidentally-leaked-exposes-massive-media-coverup/ So this just surfaced, its not definitive but first conspericy about a cover up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) ASDF Edited October 7, 2017 by Diamonds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammit Charlie Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Kerry- let's try a both sides of the isle approach. Both narratives on both sides need to be drop, not just the gun grabber side. Could you provide any specific items that the NRA has proposed for legislation in the last 20 years that your concerned with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Mart Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 ASDF Diamonds am I right or wrong? I’ve always been curious about this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 I’m not chiming in again till Monday, but keep talking some good stuff being brought up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 Diamonds am I right or wrong? I’ve always been curious about this one. I'm waiting for Geeto to respond to my last post. Geeto, I'm only not responding so I do t taint your opinion. Nothing personal (this time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrodh Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 *Eats popcorn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 http://freedomdaily.com/shocking-vid-2nd-shooter-just-accidentally-leaked-exposes-massive-media-coverup/ So this just surfaced, its not definitive but first conspericy about a cover up. LOL people are so dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewtoys Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 LOL people are so dumb. So many people buy into that nonsense. That's the scary part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 http://freedomdaily.com/shocking-vid-2nd-shooter-just-accidentally-leaked-exposes-massive-media-coverup/ So this just surfaced, its not definitive but first conspericy about a cover up. Las Vegas PD said there was only one shooter "in the room." Nothing about any outside. There is also body cam video of a bullet coming through a tarp from INSIDE the venue. 0:05-0.06 of this video. You see something go through the tarp towards MB that comes with a loud bang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 Las Vegas PD said there was only one shooter "in the room." Nothing about any outside. There is also body cam video of a bullet coming through a tarp from INSIDE the venue. 0:05-0.06 of this video. You see something go through the tarp towards MB that comes with a loud bang Just stop. Save the dignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigOxley Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Just stop. Save the dignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Here's something to think about that would shut down all these "theories" I have yet to see any confirmation of what direction people were shot from and the slugs pulled from anybody yet. Has this been talked about in the news? Would this information not lay out what happened? To me, how the media spins all these events is entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.