Tax Reform

[TTQ B4U]

Better than being a dumb fuck thinkig giving the govt more money will fix things or that what we need is more socialized programs.

 

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[oh8sti]

Ah yes, I remember how decisions were looked at differently after the last big tax cut and spending went down. Totally starved the beast. Well done Republicans.

 

You're a gullible twat.

 

Greg - sometimes you don’t win. Sometimes you have to stop worrying about things outside of your control. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean it matters. That’s the lie of the liberal.

 

Do you think I’d give a fuck if Hillary won? I don’t allow the system to dictate my happiness. I’ll just keep closing more business.

 

You keep crying about all your social problems and all the racists/sexists things trump says. I’ll be over here snapping necks and cashin checks.

[greg1647545532]

Better than being a dumb fuck thinkig giving the govt more money will fix things or that what we need is more socialized programs.

 

What a stunning defense of the tax bill.

[greg1647545532]

Greg - sometimes you don’t win. Sometimes you have to stop worrying about things outside of your control. Just because you have an opinion doesn’t mean it matters. That’s the lie of the liberal.

 

Do you think I’d give a fuck if Hillary won? I don’t allow the system to dictate my happiness. I’ll just keep closing more business.

 

You keep crying about all your social problems and all the racists/sexists things trump says. I’ll be over here snapping necks and cashin checks.

 

Again, what a stunning defense of the tax bill.

[oh8sti]

Again, what a stunning defense of the tax bill.

 

My reply had less to do with the tax bill and more to do with you as a person and the way you choose to be affected by things that you have no control over.

[greg1647545532]

My reply had less to do with the tax bill and more to do with you as a person and the way you choose to be affected by things that you have no control over.

 

Yes, I'm sitting here seething every day over Trump, blood roiling, tossing and turning over politics. You figured me out.

[TTQ B4U]

What a stunning defense of the tax bill.

 

Im Not defending it. I'm just pointing out some points in general. I'm sure there are some things in it I might not agree with but I don't obsess over them.

 

In general I agree with many of his overall administration objectives. I control my financial situation and future and like it that way. I am not going to apologize for focusing on me and my family first and foremost. If people work smart, save, invest and be responsible they will be fine. Those that don't won't and honestly fuck them. Finances and retirement aren't difficult concepts. People make them out to be because then they don't have a plan or discipline.

 

Feel free to adopt a family if you wish and give away more of your money to them. I have a family and am going to stay focused on them. Together if more people did the same the country would be In Far better shape. Instead we have a portion of societal trash that brings the majority down because they are either lazy, stupid or just feel entitled.

 

I'll gladly help and support efforts to get hard working contributing members of society for a short term so they can get back on-track. Fuck the above mentioned trash and freeloaders we keep letting come here without any real value to offer our country. Every single person, their dependents and God knows how many relatives that are here without merit are zapping the system resources for the rest of us. It's time to stop creating more lifetime crutches using our hard earned money and time for everyone to step up their own game.

 

Life isn't complicated. People earn money based on their skills and value of them to society. Jobs are often had based on effort and that includes making an effort to know the right people. Don't have skills then go get them. Don't have a job that pays well then go work hard and get one. Millions of people have done it. Live in a shit hole area for jobs and schools then move. Again, millions do it daily.

 

America is the land of opportunity so stop making excuses. Life isn't fair, never has been and never will be. We all deal with such situations daily. No one is special in that regards. It takes skill and will not a govt or a larger tax burden on the rest of us to make shit happen. Not everyone is going to be a doctor, not everyone will make great money and there will always be people above and below the poverty level. Everyone has to own where they are and make the most of what they have and are willing to do. Most of what we are is because of us, it's not like everyone is a victim and gets to play that card for years on-end. Setbacks happen but we still owe it to ourselves, family and those around us to get back in the fight and not be a burden on society as a whole.

 

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Edited December 30, 2017 by TTQ B4U

[TTQ B4U]

Let me say it again. The fucksticks in Washington are still spending the money that you don't think they know how to spend, but now they're borrowing it so your kids can pay it back. What a great dad.

 

Agree and giving them more isn't the answer. It's time to take some of that money back and stop the madness of poor spending. Time to focus our spending on US not the rest of the world and time to clearly define for the world who has a right to be here and be Americans. We decide that not France, Germany or other fuck-sticks that have ruined who they once were.

[zeitgeist57]

Why don't you like the current administrations performance? The economy is booming, they just lowered taxes (more monies for us and not them), Trump has put his foot down with foreign country's disrespecting us and pretty much told the UN to go F themselves which has needed to be said for a long time now. We're focusing more on us now and not them. Bringing jobs back to the United States. Putting our foot down on illegal immigration. I think the Trump administration is doing a very good job to say the least. Is he PC? No. Who gives a shit though? The President shouldn't determine social issues, that's on society. I mean, if all you do is listen to the main stream media then I can see why you'd think Trump is the next Hitler.

 

I had a “who gives a fuck?” attitude in my mind when Trump was brash on the campaign trail (and still cringe at some of the things he said). However, I thought, If he gets in office, he’s going to get things done. “Drain the swamp”. Washington outsider. Someone with a bit of business sense. Magically, I expected, he would understand the gravity of the Office of the President, and tone down the rhetoric in order to get more done...be more presidential.

 

After his first year, he was unsuccessful and spent waaaay too much time doing stupid travel bans, and couldn’t break apart ACA. This tax bill is his only “victory” and it’s unsure how it will help for the amount it’s going to cost us.

 

His private sector business board collapsed, he has cycled through more cabinet members that Obama did in his entire term (and still hasn’t filled a number of open positions), and His worst enemy in all of this is himself. He needs to tone down the noise and focus on getting stuff done.

 

Love that stock market, but the rest of it is silly/scary.

[Ben]

The current Republican ethos relies on a lie about macroeconomics which, unfortunately, many of you seem to be swallowing. Ready? Here's the lie: Companies make hiring and location-related decisions based on tax rates.

 

This is simply not true.

 

Companies decide where they will build plants and offices based on the availability and expense of the labor force. If you need 500 people to sew sneakers all day, it doesn't matter what the tax rate is, you're not building your plant in the U.S. Why? Because U.S. workers won't accept $0.50 per hour to work in a sweat shop. Conversely, if you want to build a tech company, you go to Silicon Valley. It is expensive as hell there and taxes are high but that's where the good programmers live and that's where the venture money can be found.

 

Now let's talk about hiring. Companies hire workers when there is demand for their products. When they have mountains of cash (as, by the way, many companies did during most of the Great Recession) but there’s no demand for whatever they sell, they don’t hire people and they don't feel pressured to increase wages. They give the cash out to shareholders or top execs (who are often one-and-the-same) or they hoard it for a rainy day.

 

The widget factory, in short, hires more workers when it needs to produce more widgets. When does it need to do that? When more people want to buy widgets. When does that happen? When more people have money to buy widgets. When do massive numbers of people have more money to buy widgets? When the people who don’t already have all the money they need get more.

 

So... If you really want to create jobs (and not just give a giant BJ to the uber-rich donor class) – create demand. If you want to create demand – create consumers. If you want to create consumers – get money into the hands of people who will spend it. Who will spend money if you give it to them? Well, poor and middle-class people will for sure. They don’t already have everything they want or need. So they will take whatever money is returned to them through tax breaks and spend it. The same, by the way, would also be true if they made more money in the first place (i.e. through a higher minimum wage).

 

At this point, I can just hear the “trickle-down” folks crying out in protest. Rich people and companies, they’ll insist, will spend more money if you give them more money. They’ll invest, hire employees, and spend that money on wages which the employees will then spend. Remember the “job creators?” But the reality is, rich individuals don’t hire people. There is no benefit at all, whatsoever, to giving a rich individual more money (as the expansion of the estate tax exemption does on a staggering scale). A billionaire isn’t going to change their consumption patterns because they get a tax break – there’s only so many houses, yachts, and sports cars one can really use. And, as I discussed above, companies don't spend cash on new hires just because they have extra cash. The hire when they need help. They hire when there is demand for whatever they're selling. So if you want to stimulate an economy create demand. Put money in the hands of people who will spend it – i.e., people who don’t already have more money than they can spend.

 

This tax "reform" is hugely expensive and it is based on a lie: it won't stimulate the economy in the sense of creating jobs or increasing wages (though it will probably give a boost the stock market and line my pockets).

 

Just in case you think I'm full of shit, check out the history. This isn't the first time we've cut taxes or declared a tax holiday. Such things have never historically led to wage increases or job creation. BTW, the decade most Trumpites think of when they think "Make America Great Again" is the 1950s. From 1943 to 1964 the top income tax bracket was more than 90%. How about that?

[cdk 4219]

Dude, socialism doesn't work. Get over it

 

Socialism certainly works for people who have a hard time making correct decisions for themselves and their surroundings. Removing options limits the amount of incorrect decisions these individuals can make. Socialism doesn’t seem to work for people that can make correct decisions or at least commit to the outcome of these decisions. Lots of people need to be led like livestock or their decisions become very poor. This is magnified in highly populated areas, for obvious reasons.

It seems that these people also get tired of the socialist outcome of their surroundings and seem to relocate, bringing their beliefs and poor decision making strategies with them. They will also rely on the correct decision makers to pull them up the hill. Not being pulled up the hill is a problem for most, even though with some effort on their own they could make the journey on their own.

[TTQ B4U]

BTW, the decade most Trumpites think of when they think "Make America Great Again" is the 1950s. From 1943 to 1964 the top income tax bracket was more than 90%. How about that?

 

http://www.aei.org/publication/were-taxes-really-higher-in-the-1950s/

 

or

 

https://mises.org/library/good-ol-days-when-tax-rates-were-90-percent

 

YMMV but I'll gladly take the 2-$4k of MY MONEY back for me and my family, vs giving it to the gov't to squander.

[Ben]

http://www.aei.org/publication/were-taxes-really-higher-in-the-1950s/

 

or

 

https://mises.org/library/good-ol-days-when-tax-rates-were-90-percent

 

YMMV but I'll gladly take the 2-$4k of MY MONEY back for me and my family, vs giving it to the gov't to squander.

 

The authors of those articles clearly think their readers don't understand how tax brackets work. The marginal rate is always lower than the top bracket. Each bracket only applies to taxable income over the threshold of that bracket. Hence, the 90+% bracket applied to almost no one because almost no one in 1940-60 made over 400k. The point, however, is that in the 1940s-60s the top rate was 90% for super high income because we believed in taxing the .01%ers significantly on income that was so far in excess of what anyone could use to prevent hoarding and over-concentration of wealth (which is both economically and socially damaging).

Edited January 7, 2018 by Ben