Geeto67's Political Playground

[TTQ B4U]

Why again did you leave your NY home?

 

Lots of good opportunities there and on Long Island too. We have several facilities on L.I. and they are all hiring and paying more. Our company announced a $2-5hr raise for all types of hourly positions and specifically noted it was in response to the tax breaks happening. Even here in Cbus we bumped up new hire offerings. I have salaried roles that are being filled at record levels of base salaries. My last hire HR told me to offer more even!

 

The market is strong and there is indeed a shortage for our distribution center in NY so we've pivoted to go after college students on a part time basis (20-25hrs) since the battle for full time is tough given wages. College kids however will jump on our offerings and the flexibility of hours and for us if they need to work more hours due to business volumes, we don't have to pay overtime rates to them as the hours are still within guidelines.

 

Yes, we do have a strict drug policy and that isn't going to change any time soon. The reality is it's a solid policy all around.

[Geeto67]

Agree that it's a statement that can't be applied to "everyone" but we all know it's not and instead is just generalized statement being made. That said, I disagree that's it's a xenophobia or social program targeted comment. The reality is that low wage immigrant workers do take away from actual American's.

 

I think you only need to read a couple post back to see xenophobia in action.

 

AS to low wage immigrant workers taking jobs from actual workers, prove it. Because almost all of the studies in this area say otherwise:

 

http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=23550

 

Yes there are a small population of outliers that actually are affected but to paint it as anything more than a nominal problem is very misleading.

 

 

 

So you don't feel drug testing is warranted? Love to hear more about that. As someone responsible for over 315 line workers in a production environment I'd love to have you take a tour and understand why it's critical. Everything from showing up on time, to safety are concerns. Not to mention not walking around with a hazy mind and productive and contributing overall are important. I'd have to check with HR To see what our disqualification rates are.

 

Why is everything an absolute with you? Just because you recognize something is an issue doesn't mean the immediate and only reaction is to stop doing that thing without any other alternatives.

 

I am not saying that drug tests aren't a necessary part of the landscape, but I do also think that they may be overused in some scenarios, and that there are progressive approaches that can be taken to help alleviate the problem. The current all or nothing system doesn't differentiate between recreational use of things like pot and actual addiction. If the labor shortage is really hitting the market hard, maybe there is a more progressive approach that can be taken with some of the lesser scenarios. I'm not saying you should give a heavy crane operator a job if he fails a drug test for weed, but for some other jobs where safety is a minimal concern, maybe a probationary period with weekly testing would help open up the candidate pool a little. There are some places that have already begun to try this but I would like to see more, esp in the face of employers starting to close off their applicant pool to legal things like smoking.

 

So what's the solution? IMO there are tons of people walking around that do not invest in themselves and that's sad. Perhaps they should stop spending money on weed and put that towards school?

 

I don't know that there is one solution, or that the question is necessarily an easy answer. There are some things that can be tried. More money into social programs to help people get actual skills training is a good start - education in this country is vastly underfunded so it couldn't hurt to give those without the money to improve themselves access to the opportunity to do so. I don't know that the number of people who don't "want" to improve themselves is as great as you say, but career counseling - actual effective counseling could help.

[Geeto67]

You seem to live in your own little bubble, and the drug test , you can thank countless litigation procedures from your profession for that. The people who want to work have a job ,and the people who don’t want to work find some way to get government assistance.

 

You talk in these absolutes and you say I'm in a bubble? sheesh, pot and kettle much?

 

 

Why again did you leave your NY home? If these policies are working so well, why don’t you move back and take advantage of all you preach? It seems your perfect place would be New York City or close to there. All of these policies and regulations are already in place, and according to you work very well.

 

I work for a multinational organization. They relocated me here because the Columbus, Ohio job market did not offer enough candidates with the qualifications needed to do my job. Admittedly I am a little overqualified for what my position evolved into but that is more a product of my own efficiencies in automating some processes internally. Good thing they didn't reduce the pay because I still earn a NY salary with Ohio cost of living.

 

But I have to question as to whether you have actually lived anywhere else? For the most part NY has almost all of the same laws we have here in Ohio, so does Louisiana and Massachusetts, heck most of the other states I have lived in. There are some regional differences like being able to register a car in NH without living there, but for the most part its not that different, esp with concern to labor laws. Part of progress is looking toward the future rather than maintaining the status quo.

 

 

Please explain again why you decided to leave the place that has all these great policies and regulations in place , and move to a place that has not enough of these rules. I am certainly hoping you can find your way back home.

 

Because Ohio doesn't have enough smart people to do my job, that's why. I thought that was clear? I certainly hope someday you can overcome your ignorance and anger and become a fully functioning member of society. I doubt it, but there is hope.

 

I will say that culturally, the few things that have made Ohio stand out for me is the latent racisim and white supremacy problem (worse than when I lived in the deep south), and the really judgemental attitude that I have seen from some people. Don't get me wrong, people are judgemental everywhere but some of you guys take it to a whole 'nother level, esp when it comes to groups of people and stereotypes.

 

Also your education system concerns me a little. There is a lot less analytical reasoning/thinking I am seeing being taught in the school curriculum than what I got when I was a kid, and there are a lot of indoctrinating things people put their kids through that counteract any critical reasoning they get taught. That isn't all of ohio, and there really are some great people here (not you, obviously), but it is something I have noticed that is stronger here than other places I have lived.

[RedRocket1647545505]

sheesh, pot and kettle much?

 

Racist

 

 

:gabe:

[Geeto67]

Racist

 

 

:gabe:

 

LOL

[cdk 4219]

You talk in these absolutes and you say I'm in a bubble? sheesh, pot and kettle much?

 

 

 

 

I work for a multinational organization. They relocated me here because the Columbus, Ohio job market did not offer enough candidates with the qualifications needed to do my job. Admittedly I am a little overqualified for what my position evolved into but that is more a product of my own efficiencies in automating some processes internally. Good thing they didn't reduce the pay because I still earn a NY salary with Ohio cost of living.

 

But I have to question as to whether you have actually lived anywhere else? For the most part NY has almost all of the same laws we have here in Ohio, so does Louisiana and Massachusetts, heck most of the other states I have lived in. There are some regional differences like being able to register a car in NH without living there, but for the most part its not that different, esp with concern to labor laws. Part of progress is looking toward the future rather than maintaining the status quo.

 

 

 

 

Because Ohio doesn't have enough smart people to do my job, that's why. I thought that was clear? I certainly hope someday you can overcome your ignorance and anger and become a fully functioning member of society. I doubt it, but there is hope.

 

I will say that culturally, the few things that have made Ohio stand out for me is the latent racisim and white supremacy problem (worse than when I lived in the deep south), and the really judgemental attitude that I have seen from some people. Don't get me wrong, people are judgemental everywhere but some of you guys take it to a whole 'nother level, esp when it comes to groups of people and stereotypes.

 

Also your education system concerns me a little. There is a lot less analytical reasoning/thinking I am seeing being taught in the school curriculum than what I got when I was a kid, and there are a lot of indoctrinating things people put their kids through that counteract any critical reasoning they get taught. That isn't all of ohio, and there really are some great people here (not you, obviously), but it is something I have noticed that is stronger here than other places I have lived.

 

We are just fine out here, I suggest you go elsewhere, you seem far too smart for living here. I guess the smarter attorneys got to stay home in New York ,and they shipped the lower paying people to Ohio. Appears like we got the shitty end of the deal. Maybe one day you can get promoted and go back, you’re not wanted here , I thought I had made that clear.

[Geeto67]

We are just fine out here, I suggest you go elsewhere, you seem far too smart for living here. I guess the smarter attorneys got to stay home in, and they shipped the lower paying people to Ohio. Appears like we got the shitty end of the deal. Maybe one day you can get promoted and go back, you’re not wanted here , I thought I had made that clear.

 

Make it clear all you want, it ain't gonna change the landscape.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you don't speak for the whole of Ohio, which is good because I don't think it could take the reputation hit of having you as its spokesperson.

 

But keep it up, I'm sure your "your not wanted here" rhetoric won't seem backwards and bigoted someday.

[Geeesammy]

I mean a huge war against doing anything that doesn't require a degree was waged and now we are seeing the fruits of that labor. No one wants thise jobs.

 

 

You kinda proved my point Kerry. If people wanted to work they'd put the bong down and drop the needle, but they haven't. We can get unqualified guys all day long in at $12/hr to change oil and inspect interiors, but we've got 4-5 spots open at $30/hr+ where cant get any remotely qualified applicants. Even if they cant put down the drugs im not going to hire them, it isnt really discrimination in my eyes, it's just real experiences. I've seen what drug addicts do, my own sister is one. If she was willing to steal her own widowed mothers wedding ring and pawn it for heroin cash then what is she willing to steal from me at my company?

 

Everyone I know who would be qualified is over workong in trades and everyone my age in the trades is more than reasy to move on. I mean look at the conversations on here and how many times myself and other guys are basically "retarded techs" until someone's BMW is making a clunk and they dont want to pay someone to fix it because paying $100/hr+ for years of experience and thousands in tools isn't a bargain.

[Geeesammy]

If you think drug testing isn't needed Kerry lets have you work on a car on a lift that a person in questionable mental state put on there. No checking to see if the car is stable, you just have to start workong on it and whatever happens, happens lol

[cdk 4219]

And for those that may need an abridged version of him, above he simply tells everybody that he is smarter than the people of Ohio,or at least you are dumber. His words not mine. He also believes that since he already is smarter, that you should believe what he believes in as well. Geeto lets you know that he is superior to you in his previous posts.

I also find his comments about the cost of living here vs where his liberal people are from interesting . I can only guess that because they are smarter in New York that most things are much more expensive, and with the logic it is less expensive here because of our lack of intelligence.

 

That is geetos world and how he feels about people in the Midwest.

[TTQ B4U]

I think you only need to read a couple post back to see xenophobia in action. AS to low wage immigrant workers taking jobs from actual workers, prove it. Because almost all of the studies in this area say otherwise:

 

with all the studies you cite and the geniuses out there, one would think America wouldn't have the problems that it has related to labor rates. I guess those studies just aren't able to move the lever on supply and demand. Go figure. I'm glad for you the answer lies in a study.

 

Meanwhile in the real-world companies will continue to keep wages low if the supply of people willing to do the job continues to exist. At the same time others will cry they are somehow entitled to more just because they have bills to pay and life is tough. Sorry, but that's now how life works. Wages are based on merit yes, but the law of supply and demand exists too. Companies aren't going to pay $20hr. if there's a waiting list of applicants willing to do help them accomplish their goals for less.

 

Why is everything an absolute with you? Just because you recognize something is an issue doesn't mean the immediate and only reaction is to stop doing that thing without any other alternatives.

not sure where anything is absolute Kerry. employers have expectations and standards, if the applicants behaviors or life actions don't match then they will go on not working at said employers. It's not the employer and their standards or their expectations that are causing that person to go without a job. people need to realize that life isn't happening to them it more often than not happens because of them. Smoke pot and look to limit your job potentials. Pretty simple.

 

I am not saying that drug tests aren't a necessary part of the landscape, but I do also think that they may be overused in some scenarios, and that there are progressive approaches that can be taken to help alleviate the problem. The current all or nothing system doesn't differentiate between recreational use of things like pot and actual addiction.

You're entitled to your opinion on the matter but employers are too. Lots of people want to sit around and debate the matter and that's fine. Again, in the mean time, they will continue to get passed over because a job they hope to get isn't going to have it's job requirements change just to suite them. Again, supply and demand.

 

If the labor shortage is really hitting the market hard, maybe there is a more progressive approach that can be taken with some of the lesser scenarios. I'm not saying you should give a heavy crane operator a job if he fails a drug test for weed, but for some other jobs where safety is a minimal concern, maybe a probationary period with weekly testing would help open up the candidate pool a little. There are some places that have already begun to try this but I would like to see more, esp in the face of employers starting to close off their applicant pool to legal things like smoking.

I just go through explaining the above, a labor shortage and a higher paying marketplace. We addressed both without having to compromise our principles or bring in applicants at a different level or standard than we asked our current employees to hold-to or come in at. I'm sure you would like to see things like this change and in some areas and companies they might but others they will not. I personally support the stance we have for the point brought above which is out of respect for the thousands of other employees we already have and the standards they live by. No lowering of the bar here simply because little Johnny likes to get his weed-on. If Johnny has a sense of entitlement that high now what kind of employee is he going to be when he's on the payroll? No thanks; instead Johnny learned the hard way that there are indeed options on both sides of the job opening.

 

I don't know that there is one solution, or that the question is necessarily an easy answer. There are some things that can be tried. More money into social programs to help people get actual skills training is a good start - education in this country is vastly underfunded so it couldn't hurt to give those without the money to improve themselves access to the opportunity to do so.

I'm all for it but not for free. Society as a whole can't continue to pay for others without having a fair expectation in return. Nothing is free and the one benefiting directly from things is the first one that needs to step up to account for the costs.

 

 

I don't know that the number of people who don't "want" to improve themselves is as great as you say, but career counseling - actual effective counseling could help.

I never put a number out there but it's not hard to find people in today's world crying out with a sense of "entitlement" to things. I'd say we're at a point where I've never seen so many people who thinks the entire fucking world owes them something. I have an 11yr old and 15yr old and have these conversations daily.

[Geeto67]

I mean a huge war against doing anything that doesn't require a degree was waged and now we are seeing the fruits of that labor. No one wants those jobs.

 

It's a shift in the labor market, we have been heading this way for over 100 years, I don't know why people think it was going to change. First you didn't need any education (1700's), then you needed some education for most jobs (1800's), then by the mid 1900's you needed at least high school for most jobs, and now we are at the point where at least an associates or technical training certification gets you real choices in the market. Can't stop progress as we continue to move faster in the industrial age.

 

You kinda proved my point Kerry. If people wanted to work they'd put the bong down and drop the needle, but they haven't. We can get unqualified guys all day long in at $12/hr to change oil and inspect interiors, but we've got 4-5 spots open at $30/hr+ where cant get any remotely qualified applicants. Even if they cant put down the drugs im not going to hire them, it isnt really discrimination in my eyes, it's just real experiences. I've seen what drug addicts do, my own sister is one. If she was willing to steal her own widowed mothers wedding ring and pawn it for heroin cash then what is she willing to steal from me at my company?

 

Dude, I don't want to be mean to you but, Hasn't your sister's addiction caused enough pain in your life? Do you think that at this point if she had the will to resist the drugs in her system should would have? These chemicals are a poison that once it gets its hooks into a person doesn't let go, and increasingly it is getting it's hooks into people in some sneaky and initially benign ways (like a dr's prescription). I would love for the opoid epidemic to be solved tomorrow by big pharma and the government but it ain't gonna happen and for now we have to deal with the landscape we have in front of us.

 

But there is a big difference between your sister, and some dude who smokes weed on the weekends to relax. And there are a lot of places that require a drug test for jobs that don't have a lot to do with safety. For years the company I work for required janitorial staff to pass drug tests, I mean really do you need to be weed free to do that job? I'm not saying put a heroin addict under a car, but come on man - you need to be "clean" to "clean"? I've seen what the people do to the toilets here during the day, I wouldn't want to do that job without getting high to forget it afterwards either.

 

 

Everyone I know who would be qualified is over workong in trades and everyone my age in the trades is more than reasy to move on. I mean look at the conversations on here and how many times myself and other guys are basically "retarded techs" until someone's BMW is making a clunk and they dont want to pay someone to fix it because paying $100/hr+ for years of experience and thousands in tools isn't a bargain.

 

That's kind of how a labor shortage works. All the skilled people take the skilled jobs, and the rest of the skilled open positions fight over who is left, which are unskilled laborers, and skilled laborers who are disqualified for some reason (like drugs or disability). How do you propose to solve the labor shortage? because I am advocating train the unskilled and try to be a little more forgiving of those who may not pose a significant risk so even if they are overqualified for the position they have the chance to work and prove themselves. what's your solution?

[Geeto67]

I really don't know how you got from here:

 

I am not saying that drug tests aren't a necessary part of the landscape, but I do also think that they may be overused in some scenarios, and that there are progressive approaches that can be taken to help alleviate the problem. The current all or nothing system doesn't differentiate between recreational use of things like pot and actual addiction. If the labor shortage is really hitting the market hard, maybe there is a more progressive approach that can be taken with some of the lesser scenarios. I'm not saying you should give a heavy crane operator a job if he fails a drug test for weed, but for some other jobs where safety is a minimal concern, maybe a probationary period with weekly testing would help open up the candidate pool a little. There are some places that have already begun to try this but I would like to see more, esp in the face of employers starting to close off their applicant pool to legal things like smoking.

 

 

To this:

 

If you think drug testing isn't needed Kerry lets have you work on a car on a lift that a person in questionable mental state put on there. No checking to see if the car is stable, you just have to start workong on it and whatever happens, happens lol

 

Obviously, working on a car on a lift is something that has a significant safety concern so I am not talking about waving drug tests for that. In fact I am not even talking about waving drug tests at all, just being a little more open to the idea that a fail for one person isn't the same as a fail for another and if the market wants to solve for it, there are some cautious options.

 

That being said, as a mechanic, you want a labor shortage in the market because that means you have some leverage with respect to your employment situation. Now's the time to ask for raises, or more time off, or get a better paying job. It's rare that the working man gets leverage over his employer, so while you have it make good use of it.

[TTQ B4U]

All the skilled people take the skilled jobs, and the rest of the skilled open positions fight over who is left, which are unskilled laborers, and skilled laborers who are disqualified for some reason (like drugs or disability). How do you propose to solve the labor shortage? because I am advocating train the unskilled and try to be a little more forgiving of those who may not pose a significant risk so even if they are overqualified for the position they have the chance to work and prove themselves. what's your solution?

 

Who's going to pay for the training of these people? Most companies aren't going to ante-up to pay for education and training. The better alternative is to simply out-source or bring in labor from overseas. Our IT Group ended up doing both. Tons of benefits to doing it and far less risk both financially and otherwise. Again, if Johnny doesn't want to put down the joint or step-up and pay his way through night school, there are plenty of foreigners willing to do both and come take that spot. The ones outside my office are have great gigs too and all three are pumped to be here.

[Geeto67]

And for those that may need an abridged version of him, above he simply tells everybody that he is smarter than the people of Ohio,or at least you are dumber. His words not mine. He also believes that since he already is smarter, that you should believe what he believes in as well. Geeto lets you know that he is superior to you in his previous posts.

I also find his comments about the cost of living here vs where his liberal people are from interesting . I can only guess that because they are smarter in New York that most things are much more expensive, and with the logic it is less expensive here because of our lack of intelligence.

 

That is geetos world and how he feels about people in the Midwest.

 

I don't think I'm smarter than a lot of people I have met in ohio, but for damn sight I'm superior to you. Heck, so are most household pets and inanimate objects. I think the underside of your rock misses you, you should go find it.

[Geeto67]

Who's going to pay for the training of these people? Most companies aren't going to ante-up to pay for education and training. The better alternative is to simply out-source or bring in labor from overseas. Our IT Group ended up doing both.

 

Why not? they want the employees, right? They also did that for 100s of years until the technology developed to allow for an international labor pool rather than a national one.

 

Technology has allowed a lot of jobs to be outsourced overseas but having people getting training for those jobs isn't going to stop that. Most of what's gone would pay below the poverty standard in this country anyway so it wasn't staying. Technology It has also created jobs, often with higher skills requirements that the jobs they sent overseas. Technology replaces jobs in this country without outsourcing as well. Immigration and outsourcing isn't the problem - it's creating a job for every job technology makes obsolete and we are losing that fight. And one of the way we are losing that fight is that people are choosing to focus on something as inconsequential as immigration when in reality they need to look at the larger problem holistically.

[Geeesammy]

It's a shift in the labor market, we have been heading this way for over 100 years, I don't know why people think it was going to change. First you didn't need any education (1700's), then you needed some education for most jobs (1800's), then by the mid 1900's you needed at least high school for most jobs, and now we are at the point where at least an associates or technical training certification gets you real choices in the market. Can't stop progress as we continue to move faster in the industrial age.

 

I'm not arguing the need for education, I'm arguing the constant push of "you need a 4+ year degree to do anything with your life"

 

We are at that point where you need at least formal technical training to get a decent job, but if I am getting more training, why isn't my pay increasing along with my education level? Ask any tech who is 55+ and they will tell you how they made as much or more in the 80's than they do now, even without adjusting for inflation. My old manager was getting $29/flt rt hour in 87 at Chrysler, which when he said that our top guys were getting $27.75....

 

Not to mention tech in newer cars is just stupid, not to mention all the infotainment garbage.

 

Dude, I don't want to be mean to you but, Hasn't your sister's addiction caused enough pain in your life? Do you think that at this point if she had the will to resist the drugs in her system should would have? These chemicals are a poison that once it gets its hooks into a person doesn't let go, and increasingly it is getting it's hooks into people in some sneaky and initially benign ways (like a dr's prescription). I would love for the opoid epidemic to be solved tomorrow by big pharma and the government but it ain't gonna happen and for now we have to deal with the landscape we have in front of us.

 

She can and has resisted the drugs, she can't resist being around the morons who do hard drugs, which then leads her back into it. She knows this yet still finds these sketchball dudes and before you know it she is back into rehab. For 2 years+ she has been in and out of rehab, each week I go to my moms and her(sisters) stack of bills from just that week is literally 30+ envelopes.

 

But there is a big difference between your sister, and some dude who smokes weed on the weekends to relax. And there are a lot of places that require a drug test for jobs that don't have a lot to do with safety. For years the company I work for required janitorial staff to pass drug tests, I mean really do you need to be weed free to do that job? I'm not saying put a heroin addict under a car, but come on man - you need to be "clean" to "clean"? I've seen what the people do to the toilets here during the day, I wouldn't want to do that job without getting high to forget it afterwards either.

 

I'm not saying someone smoking weed isn't a valuable employee, I'm saying someone on hard drugs is more than likely going to steal your stuff at the very least. More than likely they are going to be a massive liability and just a ticking timebomb to at least damage property, and hopefully no one. If I owned a business and a dude popped for weed on the drug test, it would literally be a "Hey man, so when do you smoke?" type thing, if he says a couple times during the week at night I honestly would rather have him than an alcoholic who gets blasted nightly and is fucking worthless until lunch, assuming he shows on time.

 

 

That's kind of how a labor shortage works. All the skilled people take the skilled jobs, and the rest of the skilled open positions fight over who is left, which are unskilled laborers, and skilled laborers who are disqualified for some reason (like drugs or disability). How do you propose to solve the labor shortage? because I am advocating train the unskilled and try to be a little more forgiving of those who may not pose a significant risk so even if they are overqualified for the position they have the chance to work and prove themselves. what's your solution?

 

I think training/rehabbing people who genuinely WANT to be a contributing member of society if they have fucked up is a great place to start. Obviously molesters, rapists, murderers, etc. need to rot in a cell, but someone who got busted for pot is IMO generally speaking 100% capable of being a contributing member of society.

 

Make working in a trade desirable,rewarding financially and mentally. Being understaffed in a shop where it is numbers driven is racking mentally. The expectation that someone can do the work of 2 for months, years even on end is absurd. All these companies don't want to pay dick, yet they are willing to have vacant jobs. Plot twist, if you don't have employees you can't make any money and your competition is taking your work because they are willing to pay. I'd rather overpay someone a little and make a little less than not have ANYONE to do the job and make nothing....

[Geeto67]

with all the studies you cite and the geniuses out there, one would think America wouldn't have the problems that it has related to labor rates. I guess those studies just aren't able to move the lever on supply and demand. Go figure. I'm glad for you the answer lies in a study.

 

Prove that they are lies. Research and studies aren't solutions, they just allow people to make informed decisions. But we get it, you don't value research so to you it's all about how you feel. That's precious but I'm glad that most of the world doesn't share your opinion.

 

Meanwhile in the real-world companies will continue to keep wages low if the supply of people willing to do the job continues to exist. At the same time others will cry they are somehow entitled to more just because they have bills to pay and life is tough....blah blah blah...I hate the poors....etc

 

Nobody here is talking about entitlement. There is a labor shortage and we are having a discussion about possible things to ease it from the perspective of the employers. You just like shitting on people by calling them entitled because you like to feel superior about how lucky you have been concerning your own life.

 

Honestly, I'm happy there is a skilled labor shortage, it means the working men and women of the world get paid what they are worth if they screw up the courage to ask for it. The only thing I don't like about it is that often employers try to solve for it through investing in tech and outsourcing rather than investing in their people, but that's a different problem for a different discussion.

 

Anybody who is saying there is a labor shortage because people are lazy is out of touch with reality and just looking to justify feeling good about having a job. There are real factors affecting the market that don't have anything to do with laziness and if the employers want a solution that invests in people, there are options. Sadly they will probably choose tech instead.

 

Remember this is all cyclical, it will be interesting to see where we are when the current CIC starts to push his own economic policies instead of coasting off decade long trends and the policies of his predecessors. Labor shortages don't last forever.

[Geeesammy]

Anybody who is saying there is a labor shortage because people are lazy

 

Thats a real thing too. Many people I know of want a job but don't want to do anything that involves the slightest amount of physical labor. They want a desk job paying 55k+ a year and able to be on FB all day.

[Geeto67]

Thats a real thing too. Many people I know of want a job but don't want to do anything that involves the slightest amount of physical labor. They want a desk job paying 55k+ a year and able to be on FB all day.

 

Or maybe they are just unqualified for that job? If you went to school for a BA in linguistics, and your entire experience working on cars is to change a battery once in an autozone parking lot, you probably shouldn't be under a car doing oil changes.

 

Yeah, there are lazy people in this world that don't want to work, but the number of those people is small. What you are seeing are people who want to work in a job they are qualified for and eventually they will get jobs in their field or enter the labor market another way when they don't. And as they come in, others will leave.

 

It sucks being unemployed and wanting to work, but just because they aren't willing to take any job that comes along that they aren't really qualified for doesn't mean they are lazy. They are your friends (I presume) and they probably bitch and moan about their situation to you, and it probably sucks to have a job and feel awkward around your friend who doesn't. But try to be a little understanding too, this world isn't easy for anybody and making them feel shitty by calling them lazy doesn't help. although I probably wouldn't lend them any money.

[TTQ B4U]

Prove that they are lies. Research and studies aren't solutions, they just allow people to make informed decisions. But we get it, you don't value research so to you it's all about how you feel. That's precious but I'm glad that most of the world doesn't share your opinion.

 

Where did I say they were lies? However, since you mention it, studies are simply data sets and can be skewed or presented in many ways. Believe what you want Kerry. While you watch these studies, the market is telling us something completely different. The fact that illegals come here for work, which perhaps you don't believe, is step one. The fact that so many are paid off-the-books is another. Perhaps you don't believe they are. I value research but I don't live and die by it as reality is right in front of us and that you can't argue. Hell, the dems argue it for us by stating there's a need for illegals to be here and that they are indeed taking our jobs. They even talk about how they are contributing to the economy and they aren't doing that without having a job that an American Citizen could have instead!

Nobody here is talking about entitlement. There is a labor shortage and we are having a discussion about possible things to ease it from the perspective of the employers. You just like shitting on people by calling them entitled because you like to feel superior about how lucky you have been concerning your own life.

 

We are actually talking about entitlement when we look at how many are clamoring for "living wages", etc....and jobs or doing what Cali is experimenting with and paying people for just being alive. Try and twist this back in a personal way to me all you want Kerry in some odd way of trying to insult or shame me but it's not going to change the facts.

The only thing I don't like about it is that often employers try to solve for it through investing in tech and outsourcing rather than investing in their people, but that's a different problem for a different discussion.

 

You might not like it nor will those looking for a job but you're not asked to like it, you're asked to deal with it in whatever way you choose. Go complain and stomp your feet for more money because you feel it's your right or go spend evenings working a job to earn money so you can spend it on gaining skills to get a better job. It's America, and the choice is yours. It's nothing more than value-add; who adds more a person or a machine and to what short and long term cost.

Anybody who is saying there is a labor shortage because people are lazy is out of touch with reality and just looking to justify feeling good about having a job. There are real factors affecting the market that don't have anything to do with laziness and if the employers want a solution that invests in people, there are options. Sadly they will probably choose tech instead.

 

I would agree although tempered with the reality that there are indeed groups of people who work the system vs working a job. If you don't see that then you're blind. I also agree that there are other factors impacting things but it's up to individuals to better themselves just as companies invest in themselves through technology.

 

Remember this is all cyclical, it will be interesting to see where we are when the current CIC starts to push his own economic policies instead of coasting off decade long trends and the policies of his predecessors. Labor shortages don't last forever.

 

It will be but it won't break my heart to see Obamaphones go by the wayside.

[Geeto67]

Where did I say they were lies? However, since you mention it, studies are simply data sets and can be skewed or presented in many ways. Believe what you want Kerry. While you watch these studies, the market is telling us something completely different. The fact that illegals come here for work, which perhaps you don't believe, is step one. The fact that so many are paid off-the-books is another. Perhaps you don't believe they are. I value research but I don't live and die by it as reality is right in front of us and that you can't argue. Hell, the dems argue it for us by stating there's a need for illegals to be here and that they are indeed taking our jobs. They even talk about how they are contributing to the economy and they aren't doing that without having a job that an American Citizen could have instead!

 

The market is creating the data, so say what you want about the market, it doesn't agree with you. Yes the analysis part of research can skew, but remember 1) if it skews it will be obvious in the analysis and will be pointed out by it's critics (which isn't really happening so it must be pretty good), and 2) incentive drives the need to skew, and honestly financial incentive to solve the problem does a pretty good job of keeping things honest. I get that you like your xenophobia and you love to call Ethiopians or Somalians turds because it makes you feel good, but don't pretend that your narrow view of immigrants being the problem is actually the problem.

 

We are actually talking about entitlement when we look at how many are clamoring for "living wages", etc....and jobs or doing what Cali is experimenting with and paying people for just being alive. Try and twist this back in a personal way to me all you want Kerry in some odd way of trying to insult or shame me but it's not going to change the facts.

 

Do you want to solve societal problems? or do you just want to talk about how the poor are inferior? All this talk about "entitlement" is a lot of things, but the main thing thing it isn't is helpful to the current situation. It's a fact of life we have children in this country malnourished and dying, growing up in homes that lack stable shelter, and that those situations have long standing effects on society. The context for a living wage and for a social safety net is an attempt to address that, it's not about whether they are entitled to money, but whether they are entitled to not die in the street due to a lot of circumstances beyond their control. It literally wears me out to hear your "entitlement garbage" because it offers nothing. No solution, no assistance, not even a unique or novel perspective on the problem. It's just you saying your fellow man is worthless.

 

 

You might not like it nor will those looking for a job but you're not asked to like it, you're asked to deal with it in whatever way you choose. Go complain and stomp your feet for more money because you feel it's your right or go spend evenings working a job to earn money so you can spend it on gaining skills to get a better job. It's America, and the choice is yours. It's nothing more than value-add; who adds more a person or a machine and to what short and long term cost.

 

I deal with it fine. I just find it intensely hypocritical of you that you blast immigrants for stealing jobs, but have no problem letting the machines take them from Americans while you denigrate your fellow Americans.

 

For someone so anti-government, it's surprising for you to be so anti worker as well. When the market shifts in favor of the worker, it's not stomping their feet and demanding more money - its monetizing the market value of the employee. Their intrinsic value goes up the company shouldn't get that for free, the worker should get paid what they are worth. Companies have no problem doing furloughs, pay adjustments, wage decreases, and even mass layoffs when it goes the other way, why shouldn't the employee play the same game in the rare chance it goes their way?

 

 

I would agree although tempered with the reality that there are indeed groups of people who work the system vs working a job. If you don't see that then you're blind. I also agree that there are other factors impacting things but it's up to individuals to better themselves just as companies invest in themselves through technology.

 

I am the working man, just like you, just like most of us. I am not on the side of management. If you worry about people gaming a system, then mgmt should invent a better game. People are going to rise to the level of their ambition, you can't stop that.

 

It will be but it won't break my heart to see Obamaphones go by the wayside.

 

Even if the economy goes in the toilet? He's a stable genius, he told us so,what could possibly go wrong? :dumb:

[BStowers023]

I somewhat agree and disagree with Kerry on the drug test issue. I am a construction safety guy so I deal with this quite often. It's not so much a company policy as much as it is an insurance policy and a BWC policy. Most General Contractors require any subs under them to be a part of the BWC drug free work place program which goes off federal law and not state. For example, if marijuana is recreational or medical in your state and you fall under the BWC drug free workplace program, even if you have a prescription from a doctor for medical marijuana you're still eligible to be fired by your company if you piss positive for THC. Most company's especially construction and really any safety sensitive jobs won't budge much on this simply because of the liability.

 

Where I agree with Kerry is that I think we could be a bit more progressive in how we test for something like marijuana. I'm not saying we have to do this for every drug, but I think marijuana could be an exception in certain cases, especially for medical reasons. We need to develop an accurate testing system other than urine to test for the use of the drug within a certain period of time, similar to alcohol. It's hard for me to make an argument against the use of marijuana for medical purposes if we are okay as a society prescribing opiods for pain. I think we could make some advancements in the industry, the issue is nobody wants to speak up about it because of the taboo against weed.

[Geeto67]

I somewhat agree and disagree with Kerry on the drug test issue. I am a construction safety guy so I deal with this quite often. It's not so much a company policy as much as it is an insurance policy and a BWC policy. Most General Contractors require any subs under them to be a part of the BWC drug free work place program which goes off federal law and not state. For example, if marijuana is recreational or medical in your state and you fall under the BWC drug free workplace program, even if you have a prescription from a doctor for medical marijuana you're still eligible to be fired by your company if you piss positive for THC. Most company's especially construction and really any safety sensitive jobs won't budge much on this simply because of the liability.

 

I think you and I agree on this part too. Construction is safety sensitive, so they probably shouldn't budge. Maybe the only part we might disagree on is does the secretary of the subcontractor who does no construction work have to piss clear of Marijuana too even if she has a prescription? I say no, others might disagree.

[BStowers023]

I think you and I agree on this part too. Construction is safety sensitive, so they probably shouldn't budge. Maybe the only part we might disagree on is does the secretary of the subcontractor who does no construction work have to piss clear of Marijuana too even if she has a prescription? I say no, others might disagree.

 

Yeah that's kind of a grey area too. I think it's dumb to hold everyone in the company to the exact same standard if 2 people have completely different jobs, one being in the office from 8-430 and the other being on a dangerous construction site operating and working around heavy equipment all day. Unfortunately for some reason company's don't make rules to exempt people from certain rules even if it happens anyways. I also think it's a bit dumb that someone who pops for marijuana is viewed the same as someone who pops for heroin. It's a bit of a double standard I think that we are ok with guys going home and drinking a 12 pack every night, waking up hungover and they're technically not breaking any rules versus a guy who might smoke weed once a month but pops positive on a test from smoking 2 weeks ago gets fired. Which one is more of a safety hazard?