greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I mean we already know they met with them in Trump tower and only didn't collude because they weren't impressed with what was offered, not because of a moral objection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I mean we already know they met with them in Trump tower and only didn't collude because they weren't impressed with what was offered, not because of a moral objection. I wont say thats wrong, but I will say the people in that room didn't see the need for this information they had. I dont see this as a crime considering oppo-research like this is common at a high level of politics. Again, I think this will continue to come out with the full report, which I 100% support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk 4219 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 t cost negative dollars. The investigation MADE MONEY for the US taxpayer. That’s the most possibly ignorant statement I have heard even from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 It's true though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Overall good news and pretty much what everyone with a brain figured would be the outcome. Made money for a lot of media outlets and wasted the time of millions of people everywhere. Time to admit it was a huge lie and complete bullshit.....but that wont ever happen. Doesnt need to for those with a brain either though so chuck and Nancy shouldn't worry. Next up: made for TV movies and documentaries along with more books from lots of people who mean nothing to most but a few who do. Insert months of Trump victory laps and middle fingers to his biggest haters. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 U.S. Posts The Biggest Monthly Budget Deficit In American History Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdk 4219 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Can you imagine Obama trying to run the country with a whole bunch of people demanding his long form birth certificate to prove his citizenship, demanding his college transcripts to prove that he wasn't a fraud, etc? Who would want that job, indeed. Of course, one person's "the media is just holding our leadership accountable" is another's witch hunt. It's almost like people don't have as much of a principled view of things as they'd like to believe, and instead just fall back on partisan lines. Case in point, public servant Hillary Clinton, who served her country as a US senator and secretary of state, had to endure no fewer than 17 Benghazi investigations (that all came up empty) and a prolonged investigation into her handling of government emails (which also came up empty). I assume you also think it's unfair that she had to put up with all that BS instead of just being allowed to do the job she was elected/appointed to do. If that's the case, then Republicans haven't gotten the memo, as just this weekend Sen Lindsay Graham, Trump's current favorite ball-fondler, was calling for MORE investigations of private citizen Hillary Clinton as the crowd at Mar-a-Lago chanted "lock her up!" Did I do it? Did I point out partisan hypocrisy!? Internet points, please. Can you imagine a media covering up for a Democrat president? Never investigating anything Obama did? Gun running in Mexico, secret money to Iran, his knowledge of HRC’’s personal server? James Comey laid out a case as to how Hillary broke the law, then at the end recommended no charges he filed. Hillary paid for and distributed the phony dossier which lead to this witch hunt. Democrats could not accept that the American people rejected another incompetent Democrat to lead the US. People were ready for change and didn’t want 4 more years of more Obama bad policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 You're soooo good looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I see it now. That's not my interpretation of that sentence. greg let's face it it will never be your interpretation... you are too far left like many are too far right it's just the way some are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 greg let's face it it will never be your interpretation... you are too far left like many are too far right it's just the way some are You know, I'm a libertarian. I like to read, I like to challenge my positions. I like to read both sides, Fox, daily caller, all kinds of shit, to try and figure out what other people are thinking. I don't think your opinion matters unless you can argue the other side just as eloquently. That's a personal mantra of mine. It's a value I hold. I try really, really hard to present my ideas based on facts here, to see the world how it really is. I try really hard to engage with you folks on an intellectual level. And in this case, we're debating a single sentence in a letter Barr wrote to congress. Panduh quoted that sentence, I challenged him on it because I didn't remember it, and he pointed out the exact page so I could go look it up. I DID go look it up. And I thought about it. And I disagreed with his interpretation. And THEN HE SAID MY INTERPRETATION WAS FAIR. What a beautiful moment of a true exchange of ideas on CR politics. He made me question my position, I thought about it, he thought about it. Thinking! AND THEN you have the nerve to dismiss all of that by just saying I'm "too far left," which dismisses the entire exchange and also misses my political stance entirely. It's frustrating. Gah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh8sti Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 You know, I'm a libertarian. I like to read, I like to challenge my positions. I like to read both sides, Fox, daily caller, all kinds of shit, to try and figure out what other people are thinking. I don't think your opinion matters unless you can argue the other side just as eloquently. That's a personal mantra of mine. It's a value I hold. I try really, really hard to present my ideas based on facts here, to see the world how it really is. I try really hard to engage with you folks on an intellectual level. And in this case, we're debating a single sentence in a letter Barr wrote to congress. Panduh quoted that sentence, I challenged him on it because I didn't remember it, and he pointed out the exact page so I could go look it up. I DID go look it up. And I thought about it. And I disagreed with his interpretation. And THEN HE SAID MY INTERPRETATION WAS FAIR. What a beautiful moment of a true exchange of ideas on CR politics. He made me question my position, I thought about it, he thought about it. Thinking! AND THEN you have the nerve to dismiss all of that by just saying I'm "too far left," which dismisses the entire exchange and also misses my political stance entirely. It's frustrating. Gah! I think that was a decent exchange of people that tend to not agree on some of the minutia of the political climate we are in. I would say that Im an independent that leans more conservative. I have voted both democratic and Rep because that is my option in the current format. I like to read multiple sides of the same issue to gain a better perspective. Im currently watching CNN, Fox and MSNBC all at the same time. Im also reading reddit subs on each side. Regarding Trump in general, I think he is a disruptive person politically and personally. That is my only fascination with him. I dont agree with some of his policies. I think he says some really stupid things and cares way to much about what people think of him. He has a tendency to embody some of the attitudes of an American sub culture that is close minded and vindictive. I also think a lot of the talking heads on the left are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace1647545504 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 greg ..sorry i don't see the libertarian you've argue the liberal side way too hard..i could be wrong and if i am sorry. i had an old boss who paid into the republican party and i would argue the liberal side but had to concede on some of the conservative items, from what i remember you have never conceded to any idea on the right. You said you read then draw judgments (my synopsis of your statement) maybe you're reading only one side of the argument. This isn't an attack on you just an observation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfunnyryan Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Can we investigate Hillary now please? Hillary Clinton literally paid Russia for fake dossier that she used to rig the election https://www.outline.com/JDdaeE Russia reviewed and bought Pro Hillary Clinton ads on Facebook in order to help her http://archive.is/Uv4lF http://archive.is/e3rk6 Russia organized multiple anti Trump protest. Some of which were attended by Major left-wing celebrities http://archive.is/8JvPC and Hillary again used the fake dossier she purchased from the Russians in order to try to overthrow a sitting president https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/11/02/hillary-that-dirty-russian-dossier-on-trump-that-we-paid-for-was-just-opposition-research-n2403961 http://archive.is/XsFWW https://dailycaller.com/2018/02/16/russia-trump-resistance-protests/ http://archive.is/1V234 they created ridiculous conspiracy theories based on racism and unsubstantiated claims by Barack Obama. They weaponized the intelligence agency is too politically Target Trump. http://archive.is/paKfg http://archive.is/Jh2wN http://archive.is/8awgF Obama used his connections that still worked in the government and intelligence agencies to politically obstruct Trump. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-lovers-latest-text-messages-obama-wants-to-know-everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Listening to CNN try to spin this shitshow like a top is pure comedy gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Not Trump, doesn't matter... Now, the $3 question, how will this "investigation" influence and change American politics? Will there be other grand investigations into elected officials? This could be a pretty deep rabbit hole where the precedent is now set right? Can we investigate Hillary now please? Hillary Clinton literally paid Russia for fake dossier that she used to rig the election https://www.outline.com/JDdaeE Russia reviewed and bought Pro Hillary Clinton ads on Facebook in order to help her http://archive.is/Uv4lF http://archive.is/e3rk6 Russia organized multiple anti Trump protest. Some of which were attended by Major left-wing celebrities http://archive.is/8JvPC and Hillary again used the fake dossier she purchased from the Russians in order to try to overthrow a sitting president https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2017/11/02/hillary-that-dirty-russian-dossier-on-trump-that-we-paid-for-was-just-opposition-research-n2403961 http://archive.is/XsFWW https://dailycaller.com/2018/02/16/russia-trump-resistance-protests/ http://archive.is/1V234 they created ridiculous conspiracy theories based on racism and unsubstantiated claims by Barack Obama. They weaponized the intelligence agency is too politically Target Trump. http://archive.is/paKfg http://archive.is/Jh2wN http://archive.is/8awgF Obama used his connections that still worked in the government and intelligence agencies to politically obstruct Trump. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fbi-lovers-latest-text-messages-obama-wants-to-know-everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 greg ..sorry i don't see the libertarian you've argue the liberal side way too hard..i could be wrong and if i am sorry. I don't expect everyone here to remember every detail about my political views, but it is something I've stated several times. A couple of points on this though -- 1) Aside from Kerry this board is very conservative. Yes, I know most of us like to think that we're enlightened centrists, but here I think it's safe to say that someone like me who argues against conservatism at all would naturally seem like an outlier. I'd argue that this is because the board skews right, though. 2) On a board full of conservatives, in a thread where people argue and debate, there's just not going to be a lot of examples of me arguing in favor of certain conservative view points, not because I don't hold many, but simply because there's no one to argue against. I can and have disagreed with Kerry on a number of things but he's literally the only one, and it's likely that you weren't paying attention because it's hard to read everything Kerry writes as it is. 3) I have absolutely no love for the Republican party, and I think a lot of the things that we end up going back and forth on are precisely the things that libertarians disagree with conservatives on. As a few examples, I'm in favor of open borders. This is a libertarian and ONLY a libertarian position, as both Democrats and Republicans are anti-immigration to some extent. I'm in favor of trans rights (and gay rights before that), which again is a liberal position but is also something that libertarians and conservatives don't agree with. I'm pro-science (again, a libertarian position) and therefore I believe global warming is real, and while I don't profess to know what role government should play in solving it I know that I hate Republicans who won't even admit that it's a problem that humans have caused. Etc. I'm not a strict libertarian, which is why I describe myself as "left leaning" -- as a practical matter I'm in favor of UHC, social security, and a central bank. But I won't get into all of that. Lastly, in the last 2 years Trump has dominated a lot of these discussions, and I don't think a lot of Trump's antics fall neatly along partisan ideology. He's an authoritarian bully with an extremely divisive and ineffective "leadership" style. Like Clay, I'm baffled as to how conservatives fell in line so quickly behind Trump and seem so eager to write off criticisms of his faults as "liberal whining." The dude has faults, and I wish more people held him accountable for those faults instead of finding ways to turn those criticisms against liberals. i had an old boss who paid into the republican party and i would argue the liberal side but had to concede on some of the conservative items, from what i remember you have never conceded to any idea on the right. My views on gun control have changed a lot, largely from early arguments on this board. I've stated several times that I'm in favor of the 2nd amendment and personal ownership of firearms, but I previously was OK with state restrictions as a matter of states rights, and I was OK with an assault weapons ban because I was ignorant about assault weapons. I've since changed my stance on both, although I've certainly argued that being allowed to own a gun doesn't mean that it's good if everyone does. You said you read then draw judgments (my synopsis of your statement) maybe you're reading only one side of the argument. This isn't an attack on you just an observation As long as you're observing I'm happy to engage! Let's maybe consider, though, that the reason nobody here ever changes their mind on anything is because very few people actually make a good faith effort at persuasion. Kerry writes really long posts full of facts and persuasive arguments and he gets ridiculed for it. I sometimes spend the time writing long posts (like this one) and generally get no response, except a few weeks later someone will accuse me of being closed minded and unwilling to engage in debate. That's frustrating. I'm putting in the time to talk and I'll always listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Listening to CNN try to spin this shitshow like a top is pure comedy gold. It's all about TV Drama. They took the page right from Trump's success with reality TV. The irony of it all is thick. CNN Needs ratings so they do what they do. They haven't been a real news show for a long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Definitely some "smoke", but no fire. No indictments on Friday means Trump is in the clear. What continues to amaze me is that - even with Trump calling it a "Witch Hunt" - he nearly created an obstruction-of-justice charge for a process that partially exonerated him anyway. Now, he needs to get back to work: - Keeping the U.S. economy strong amidst global economic recessionary fears. - A farming base in the U.S. heartland reeling from poor trade deals. - Pro-growth tax strategies and agendas for businesses and individuals. - Less romanticism of global dictators and despots (Putin, Xi, Kim Jong Un...) - Infrastructure improvements ...and less: - Scandals - Ignorant comments in public forums - Twitter wars - Race-baiting How's that wall coming along? Zero new miles constructed? Let's Make America Great Again! - Ronald Reagan, 1980 :gabe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Lastly, in the last 2 years Trump has dominated a lot of these discussions, and I don't think a lot of Trump's antics fall neatly along partisan ideology. He's an authoritarian bully with an extremely divisive and ineffective "leadership" style. Like Clay, I'm baffled as to how conservatives fell in line so quickly behind Trump and seem so eager to write off criticisms of his faults as "liberal whining." The dude has faults, and I wish more people held him accountable for those faults instead of finding ways to turn those criticisms against liberals. I wish Liberals held the media accountable for spreading hatred and fake news. My views on gun control have changed a lot, largely from early arguments on this board. I've stated several times that I'm in favor of the 2nd amendment and personal ownership of firearms, but I previously was OK with state restrictions as a matter of states rights, and I was OK with an assault weapons ban because I was ignorant about assault weapons. I've since changed my stance on both, although I've certainly argued that being allowed to own a gun doesn't mean that it's good if everyone does. lolwut? You are in the military and don't understand assault weapons? I'm in the military you twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I wish Liberals held the media accountable for spreading hatred and fake news. I wish conservatives did too. eta: But seriously, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Rather than just taking the obvious lead here to say, "Yes, Trump has faults that I don't like," you made it all about scoring points against liberals. Why? lolwut? You are in the military and don't understand assault weapons? I qualified twice on the M16 and once on the M9, that doesn't make me an expert on barrel length and bayonet attachments. I'm willing to admit that. If I ever have to actually pick up arms to defend the country we're already fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Apparently I am the "liberal" standard here? who knew. I have often said I am an independent and follow the issue s rather than the party because I have very little use for the political blustering. I don't call my self a libertarian either since that would defeat the point on being an independent who focuses on issues, but there are many things which I would fall on the libertarian side of the fence - That is libertarian as a political concept, not libertarian as a political party, as there are some things the libertarian party goes against libertarianism. Kind of felt like I needed to clear the air because my name was being brought up a lot. I have voted both for parties in the past but since the W administration I just feel like the Republican party has left the majority of American people behind with abandoning ecological conservation, veterans affairs, and eminent domain, and progressive national defense strategy. At least under William Buckley there was some embrace of intellectual ideology, rally behind first amendment issue, and accountability, but now it is shifting toward that Alex Jones/ Jon Birch Mentality hard. I will say that I find it hysterical the number of people here who are conservative, and I mean traditional republican conservative, and think they are libertarian: - If you distrust the government, hate communism, are open and receptive to conspiracy theories involving the government, and your solution to "big government" is to just repeal existing laws - you aren't libertarian, you are an old fashioned John Birch conservative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society - If you think Abortion shouldn't be legal, oppose LBGT recognition, think the church should control marriage instead of the state, believe in charter schools, and think the US is in some form of the culture war then you aren't libertarian but rather traditional christian conservative. - if you think liberals are just whiny, globalist, safe space loving, alternative lifestyle, effeminate, gender fluid dingbats, then congratulations you are just stupid and don't really care about issues and have bought into the masculinity propaganda that the republican party sells to morons who "hate identity politics" when in reality all they know is identity politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Sorry Kerry, you're right of course -- I did the same thing to you that I've accused others of doing to me. You're definitely left of me but in this narrow space where we're both crammed into "raging liberal loon" status by CR it's hard to see the nuance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Sorry Kerry, you're right of course -- I did the same thing to you that I've accused others of doing to me. You're definitely left of me but in this narrow space where we're both crammed into "raging liberal loon" status by CR it's hard to see the nuance. no worries. It's all good. I'd be curious to find out exactly how "left" I am, the majority of old fashioned William Buckley centrist republican politics have sort of drifted left and into the democratic party because this new hybrid of movement conservatism and the john birch society have pulled the Republican Party further right that most foresaw. I'll give you an example: - Personally I believe in the 2nd amendment, and even the extension of that to personal liberty to bear arms outside of a militia, but I also recognize constitutional amendments are not absolute in their power and the government has a right to limit that power under careful scrutiny and the 2nd is not exempt from that. Other politicians that had the same belief were Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. The NRA's position that the 2nd amendment is the only constitutional provision that would be absolute in power is and has always been an extremist viewpoint that misunderstands the nature of the constitution, but since the 1970's it has grown from fringe lunacy to the point where if you don't believe it, you can't be considered a conservative. If this were 1989, or even 1999, my viewpoint would have been considered staunchly conservative, but in the modern era I'm apparently a leftist free loving hippie because I recognize that the 2nd amendment works 100% just like very other amendment and isn't special (something the supreme court, and especially Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Kennedy and Alito were very clear about in the heller decision). Edited March 25, 2019 by Geeto67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStowers023 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I wish conservatives did too. eta: But seriously, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Rather than just taking the obvious lead here to say, "Yes, Trump has faults that I don't like," you made it all about scoring points against liberals. Why? So you agree both sides do this? Why do you only point out when conservatives do it? Do as I say, not as I do? I qualified twice on the M16 and once on the M9, that doesn't make me an expert on barrel length and bayonet attachments. I'm willing to admit that. If I ever have to actually pick up arms to defend the country we're already fucked. So what made you change your mind on “assault weapons?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 So you agree both sides do this? Why do you only point out when conservatives do it? Do as I say, not as I do? To some extent that's my own bias. It's a lot easier for me to roll my eyes and ignore some bullshit on Huffpo than it is to roll my eyes and ignore some bullshit from Breitbart. Part of that is subject matter, but part of that also is reflex -- the conservative media has been lying to the American people for decades, and it's only been in the last 3 years that the liberal media has even become a "thing" on the same level as Fox and its ilk. I have started criticizing people recently for reading garbage left-wing media sources (mostly elsewhere, obviously) in the same way that I criticize a lot of you here for reading Daily Caller and other garbage right-wing media sources. It is frustrating to see the left leverage these bullshit tactics more and more, but there's no denying that all they're doing is taking pages out of the Rupert Murdoch playbook. So what made you change your mind on “assault weapons?” I don't think we need to start CR's 11ty billionth gun debate but let's just say I was educated on definitions and risk, and I changed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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