Could Use some LS advice for a friend

[Geeto67]

Ok LS experts, chime in. I have a good friend with an LS1 powered e36 bmw m3 road race car. This was a built car he bought a couple of years ago to do HPDE, Auto-x, and time attack with. Over the weekend at an event at pacific raceways he oil starved the engine.

 

the current combination was dyno'ed at approx 420hp at the wheels, he's looking to keep that power level, maybe increase it slightly. The base block was a 5.7 out of an early 2000's camaro.

 

here are the two things he's contemplating:

 

- finding another 5.7 short block, sticking it in the car to get it back to operational with the stuff he has, and then building a better motor down the road

 

- buying an LS3 or an LS7 now and putting it in the car and losing no ground but having a better platform to continue modifying.

 

here are the questions:

 

- which is the better path?

 

- what can he do to avoid oil starvation during an event? He was just overfilling the oil pan and it was working but he wasn't watching his oil level at this event and it cost him.

 

- is there a better suggestion for what to put in the car? (LT4? LSX? LSA?). It's a great chassis with current certs, already setup for an LS v8.

 

 

discuss.

[Rally Pat]

He needs an Accusump or equivalent product or for his oil starvation, or if he has infinite money a full dry sump setup. An Accusump is cheap (relatively) and easy to install though.

 

IDK what his budget is like, I can only provide poverty LS advice, but if I bought a blown up LS track car I would buy a $1000ish aluminum 5.3 short block, put in an accusump, and send.

[Not Brian]

LS7 has a dry sump setup stock, so there's that.

[BuckeyeROC]

I haven't priced this stuff specifically for his app, but I would think:

 

-LS3 is much cheaper than LS7, I would think even with a dry sump conversion

-LS3 will more than handle his current ~420 rwhp level and more

-LS3 is pretty boost friendly from what I hear, if he has plans for that

 

-LS7 will make more HP N/A than an LS3, around 600 rwhp is pretty easy N/A

-LS7 is already dry sump as NB said

-LS7 is NOT A CHEAP MOTOR

 

If he has money to burn, an LS7 swap would make a unique BA N/A track car motor. In my biased and humble opinion, the LS7 is really one of the all-time great engines, especially N/A. If more budget minded and/or boost in the future or doesn't need max HP N/A, LS3 all the way.

[Cordell]

Good luck finding an LS1 with reasonable miles, probably would want the LS3 for a somewhat affordable aluminum block based engine that may bump power a little bit. Sounds like he needs to spend some time on Improved Racing’s website looking at oil control stuff for LS engines. A dry sump is ideal but an accusump would be good too, at a minimum some of their baffling and control products.

[Geeto67]

Good luck finding an LS1 with reasonable miles, probably would want the LS3 for a somewhat affordable aluminum block based engine that may bump power a little bit. Sounds like he needs to spend some time on Improved Racing’s website looking at oil control stuff for LS engines. A dry sump is ideal but an accusump would be good too, at a minimum some of their baffling and control products.

 

with the LS1, assuming the heads, valves, cam, etc is still good, he'd just pony up for a new crate short block and swap over his parts.

 

improved racing has a lot of cool stuff.

 

I think with the ls3, he's looking at a Gen IV vs the gen III he has now, and that seemed appealing but I don't know how appealing to his budget it would be.

[Cordell]

with the LS1, assuming the heads, valves, cam, etc is still good, he'd just pony up for a new crate short block and swap over his parts.

 

improved racing has a lot of cool stuff.

 

I think with the ls3, he's looking at a Gen IV vs the gen III he has now, and that seemed appealing but I don't know how appealing to his budget it would be.

 

If it got starved for oil I doubt I'd be reusing anything, the rods get oiled last and is probably where the failure started but typically sends debris throughout.

 

Where do you think you'll be getting a new crate shortblock? LS1s and LS6s have been discontinued for some time, about the only thing to get a 5.7 new is when someone rebuilds an aluminum 5.3 and overbores it to a 5.7. LS1s in a crate are almost non-existent.

 

To run an LS3 Lingenfelter makes a converter box to run the gen4 with gen3 electronics, or you can pop the crank out and swap the reluctor wheel, neither option is a big deal with a little tuning.

[Geeto67]

If it got starved for oil I doubt I'd be reusing anything, the rods get oiled last and is probably where the failure started but typically sends debris throughout.

 

interesting, did old school sbc's oil the rods first? or am I remembering something incorrectly.

 

 

As far as debris, he hasn't taken it apart yet, but it sounds like he windowed the block. a mutual friend of ours was following him and says he saw flames out the bottom of the car and then oil smoke. I am hoping for his sake all the debirs decided to go out the bottom rather than up and he didn't bend any valves.

 

 

Where do you think you'll be getting a new crate shortblock? LS1s and LS6s have been discontinued for some time, about the only thing to get a 5.7 new is when someone rebuilds an aluminum 5.3 and overbores it to a 5.7. LS1s in a crate are almost non-existent.

 

Scoggin dickey and summit both offer new "replacement" LS1 short blocks but in reading the fine print they look like L33 5.3 aluminum blocks that are machined to LS1 spec. I don't think he's being too semantic about it being a specific ls1 block vs a ls1 spec short block as long as everything bolts up as it was before....however if the top end is trashed as you mentioned, perhaps a whole ls3 dropout from a wreck is the better option.

 

 

To run an LS3 Lingenfelter makes a converter box to run the gen4 with gen3 electronics, or you can pop the crank out and swap the reluctor wheel, neither option is a big deal with a little tuning.

 

was just reading about the reluctor wheel and the ls7 cranks for earlier blocks. interesting stuff.

[Robochan]

He should run a LS6 batwing oil pan and accusump at the very least. Aviaid Makes an economic dry sump package that uses the OEM pump for pressure and will be what I run when I get another LS motor for track use.

[coltboostin]

- what can he do to avoid oil starvation during an event? He was just overfilling the oil pan and it was working but he wasn't watching his oil level at this event and it cost him.

.

 

 

I mean.........

 

 

Your options are- baffle the pickup and over fill+accusump

 

Or, drysump.

 

 

Thats it lol

[cdk 4219]

interesting, did old school sbc's oil the rods first? or am I remembering something incorrectly.

 

 

As far as debris, he hasn't taken it apart yet, but it sounds like he windowed the block. a mutual friend of ours was following him and says he saw flames out the bottom of the car and then oil smoke. I am hoping for his sake all the debirs decided to go out the bottom rather than up and he didn't bend any valves.

 

 

 

 

Scoggin dickey and summit both offer new "replacement" LS1 short blocks but in reading the fine print they look like L33 5.3 aluminum blocks that are machined to LS1 spec. I don't think he's being too semantic about it being a specific ls1 block vs a ls1 spec short block as long as everything bolts up as it was before....however if the top end is trashed as you mentioned, perhaps a whole ls3 dropout from a wreck is the better option.

 

 

 

 

was just reading about the reluctor wheel and the ls7 cranks for earlier blocks. interesting stuff.

How the fuck are you going to oil the rods first when the oil feeds from the main bearing through the crankshaft?

[Geeto67]

How the fuck are you going to oil the rods first when the oil feeds from the main bearing through the crankshaft?

 

I was thinking of a honda 750 engine which has two seperate oil circuits that converge before the pan, and also how Chevy reversed the cooling on the LT engines in the 90's. I haven't touched a Chevy small block in at least 12 years, sometimes the memory gets fuzzy - that's why we ask questions.