gillbot Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 How cheap do you want the v6 and 4cyl cars to be? some of them are more than $10K cheaper than their base v8. The step that's too large is into a base v8. It's awesome that the base v8 camaro is 455hp, but it's maybe too much and had to insure. Maybe a baby v8 camaro that is 385hp (with a bottom end built to take an aftermarket turbo). I don't really care that the S550 v6 mustang makes more hp than any v8 Sn197 mustang GT, I'm not buying one. They need to be cheap enough to pull these “kids” in so they get into cars like was discussed before. Get them into the car, then get them to upgrade to the v8. I agree the step to a v8 is bad as well, but one hurdle at a time. As for ev’s, Low 30k for a leaf is tater. You can’t tell me the ev drivetrain adds 20k to the cost. Most of those econobox ev’s are 10k for the gas variant. If you want people to adopt ev technology, it has to be available. As I said, don’t keep the prices out of reach then legislate laws forcing people into an ev. They are cramming taxes, fees and emission regulations but penalizing people who currently want to adopt an ev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 If I had to buy a 6 cyl car I'm buying a performance 6 cyl car from a foreign mfg. GN....but they don't make those anymore. Still, that'd be my goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Camaro news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeROC Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 This was posted in another forum by a very knowledgeable guy in the industry: Camaro will continue to 2026? This is based on the likelihood that an Australian based unit has been given permission to continue a 2nd stage manufacture operation through 2026. Second stage manufacture is where a car company ships vehicles to a separate unit or company that then makes significant modifications before selling the car into commerce. Callaway is an example of a second stage manufacturer. GMSV is sort of an "in-house" second stage manufacturer. Since GMSV expects to sell about 500/yr right hand drive Camaro SS vehicles, the most likely scenario is that GM will simply build out 1,500 - 2,000 vehicles at the end of Camaro's run in 2023 to be set aside for GMSV to modify and supply the cars to the Australian market through 2026. Absolutely no need to keep an assembly plant open to fulfill GMSV product needs. That would be a serious example of tail wags dog. And GM is also not gonna decide "well, since Australia wants 500 cars a year, maybe we'll keep LGR cranking out low numbers of Camaro for North America to make it possible for Australia to sell their 500/year". Again, tail wags dog. Keep in mind that in about this same time, Cadillac will be replacing CT4 and CT5 with BEVs, so Camaro will be the only product on an Alpha platform. That won't float. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowHBK Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 But, you guys see all those JD Power Awards they won? *Potsch Boyd eyes* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 But, you guys see all those JD Power Awards they won? :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 It's all about the EV, right down to the new logo I know someone who recently left the company that worked in the performance area because the writing was on the wall. It's going to be interesting to watch this whole EV thing unfold across the board. The government is all about EV rape, I would buy stock in utility companies now because they're going to be getting piles of cash soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Mandate EV's then power companies will be "struggling" because everyone has to charge their cars now. :bs: Raising rates and further screwing lower income families because their gas cars are now illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Mandate EV's then power companies will be "struggling" because everyone has to charge their cars now. :bs: Raising rates and further screwing lower income families because their gas cars are now illegal. Bingo... California wants nothing but EVs, they can't even keep the power grid up right now... Battery tech is still a LONG WAY from being ready for widespread use. Getting materials for batteries is rough on the planet and China has that market in its pocket right now. So, in the governments eyes this is a great plan :lolguy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitgeist57 Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Bingo... California wants nothing but EVs, they can't even keep the power grid up right now... Battery tech is still a LONG WAY from being ready for widespread use. Getting materials for batteries is rough on the planet and China has that market in its pocket right now. So, in the governments eyes this is a great plan :lolguy: Well said, Wags. Just watched Matt Farah’s review of the Mustang Mach-e...amazing car, but he crapped all over the public charging network. I shudder to think how much Biden is going to pledge to infrastructure development, and more than half of those components are coming from overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Not to mention people far often overlook other pollution sources like tires and brake pads. Plus they think there is no pollution from EV's, well, where do those nasty chemicals that make the batteries come from? Where does plastic come from? Since EV production is small right now comparatively speaking, these are overlooked. What happens when they mass produce all these EV's? That's our next hurdle and EV's will be bad then. :rolls eyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Well said, Wags. Just watched Matt Farah’s review of the Mustang Mach-e...amazing car, but he crapped all over the public charging network. I shudder to think how much Biden is going to pledge to infrastructure development, and more than half of those components are coming from overseas. We had an editor talk to an EV expert for an article and the whole overseas thing is going to be a real issue. Biden and his people are really going to have to think about how they want to implement these "green" strategies. Not to mention people far often overlook other pollution sources like tires and brake pads. Plus they think there is no pollution from EV's, well, where do those nasty chemicals that make the batteries come from? Where does plastic come from? Since EV production is small right now comparatively speaking, these are overlooked. What happens when they mass produce all these EV's? That's our next hurdle and EV's will be bad then. :rolls eyes: Magic, all of these things are created by carbon-neutral magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 I find it laughable that an entire generation that grew up playing with RC10s, Tamiya Grasshoppers and hornets, and Team Losi electric cars, collectively wets itself and cries "it's the end of performance cars" when you start to talk electric full size cars with them. Electric is the new tech, it needs a push to go forward because ICE engines aren't sustainable for us in the volumes we have now. Gasoline is a finite resource, Carbon emissions is a problem that needs addressed, something needs to move the ball forward. It took 40 years for ICE cars to get from novelty local toys to national travel, with electrics we as a society are making the same strides in half the time. Honestly, I would rather see the energy put into a synthetic gasoline replacement that is less pollutant, but there isn't much progress there so....'lectric it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 My issue with electrics isn't the loss of "performance" but the profiteering that happens. This excessive profiteering is hindering adoptance and growth of the electric market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 My issue with electrics isn't the loss of "performance" but the profiteering that happens. This excessive profiteering is hindering adoptance and growth of the electric market. Yeah, it's not a performance thing, what they do is bad ass, but it's the way they're being pushed that's bullshit. Oh, and this lines up with what someone from GM told me that left a little while ago. The EV push is in full swing, doesn't matter if things are ready or not, you're going to take it and like it. https://www.caradvice.com.au/917638/ford-mustang-to-go-fully-electric-in-2029-report/?utm_source=fullboost&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=forum_affiliate_program&fbclid=IwAR1cQO64nSB-bQ6CLLsQjKKjcDQvuwR8geOwTxKUqsgt0nH0P3xEPZrkNuA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbot Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 The infrastructure isn't ready for it so it will be another window where they can apply profiteering strategy. You'll have to pay out the nose because electric rates will skyrocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geeto67 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 (edited) You say profiteering like they are charging a higher profit margin for the tech when I think the opposite is true - the new tech is expensive and their profit margins are either the same or slightly thinner. Yes there is a higher cost associated with the new tech but the development of new tech is just overall more expensive. If you are expecting GM to change their base business practices just because they are focusing on EV over ICE, that's just expecting too much. And yes High cost hinders adoption, but that's true of any new tech. Look at VHS tapes for an example: as a new tech in the 1980's some VHS players were $500, now you can buy them for $50. Edited January 22, 2021 by Geeto67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Nice Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 as a new tech in the 1980's some VHS players were $500, now you can buy them for $50. Who the hell is paying $50 for a VCR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Who the hell is paying $50 for a VCR? I had to do a doubletake at this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShowHBK Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 now you can buy them for $50. As a turnip who is somewhat of a computer guy... I can tell you this number is about $45.50 off the current retail price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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