Doc1647545523 Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 (edited) A young relative of mine has a 2010 Scion TC automatic with the 2.4 which he bought used five years ago. It's always used some oil, but because he was an OSU student and lived on campus, it wasn't driven a lot and he didn't keep track of the oil consumption. His family put a bunch of money into the car last year to try to make it a solid, dependable ride. New wheels, tires, fluid changes, tune up, battery. The car has 150k miles on it. He graduated and now has a great job that he loves but commutes around 1000 miles every week. He's getting 22 mpg and goes through a quart of oil about every 1000-1200 miles. The car doesn't drip oil and the motor looks dry. He works for a rural electic company and can charge for free at work. He's convinced he needs a Tesla, and he argues dependability, maintenance costs, fuel costs. Suggestions/advice? Does an engine rebuild/replacement for the Scion make any sense if the only current known problem is oil consumption? I suggested to him that if he's set on buying a new car he should consider trying to get a year-end deal on something like a Sonata Hybrid Blue. Unfortunately, inventory looks pretty low and most seem to be selling in the high 20's, but that beats the price of a Tesla. Generally better to sell the car to Car Max, or trade at the dealer? I don't think he wants to deal with a private buyer. Any info on what new, high mpg hybrid cars might be candidates for year-end deals? I appreciate your thoughts. Edited August 8, 2021 by Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankis Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 I don't have great info, but I keep seeing attractive lease deals offered on Nissan Leafs. Not certain whether it's range/size/performance will be of any interest to a Tesla shopper, but it's 'lectric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 drop in lower mileage engine. done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted August 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 I don't have great info, but I keep seeing attractive lease deals offered on Nissan Leafs. Not certain whether it's range/size/performance will be of any interest to a Tesla shopper, but it's 'lectric. worth looking into drop in lower mileage engine. done. what would be a good source and a reasonable price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 car-part.com and I wish I could remember the name of the company that we got our lower milage transmission from that had a warranty for our old neon. I'm guessing 1k for engine and another 1k for install at most. The other option is for him to move out to the rural area to save drive time, but there goes likely charging options for ev vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POS VETT Posted August 8, 2021 Report Share Posted August 8, 2021 There are usually deals at the end of the year, but with the current new car shortage, the prospect of getting a killer deal at the end of this year could be non existent. Just an example,, at the end of last year, there was a $11-12k discount on '20 Chevrolet Volt when combined with Costco $1k incentive (usually $700 Costco Cash Card in the past several years). Who knows if there would be such thing at the end of this year. Also, the prices for used cars are unusually high nowadays because of the new car shortage. Selling the old tC to take advantage of the high resale value makes sense, but buying another used car doesn't. I don't know how bad Tesla cars are affected, maybe it's volume is low enough to be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cranium Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 If he's at 150k now, and pounding miles on at the rate of 1000 per week, that means he'll be at 200k in a year. I don't know crap about the long term reliability of the Scion. I have a friend with an older Leaf that has a significant commute (100 miles a day) and he has severe range anxiety. Especially in the winter when he has to run the electric heater and it shortens his range even more. Another coworker has a Tesla model 3 and loves it. He's got a similar commute but no range anxiety. If he doesn't need to haul a lot of stuff, I'd sell the Scion and pick up a used Honda Fit to pound miles on. Honestly I hate commuting long distance to work, so my first thought would be to move closer to work and get part of my days back rather than spend them driving. Before I started teaching I had a 1.5 to 2 hour commute each day depending on traffic. Now I'm 12 minutes from work. Getting almost 2 more hours each day was magical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 I wouldn’t out new engine money into a 2010 scion and the “new engine “ will probably develop oil issues as well just like the current one . You are in the right track with trading it in in a hybrid ( Hyundai) has great new warranty or maybe a Camry hybrid . If he is not trading in on new I would sell privately for the most money but if he doesn’t want to deal with that and just sell/ trade in in a used I would look at a volt or ct200h He doesn’t need to spend Tesla money , also stay far away from a BOLT & LEAF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10phone2 Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 well if hes looking for a lower mileage vehicle. there is a black 16/17 corolla with high 70 miles we just traded in that would be a decent pick up at toyota direct whatever there used car unit is called now. 0 issues for 40k miles. not sure if its up for sale yet. seats are meh at best comfort wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted August 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 I appreciate the thoughts. The problem with any lease for him would be the high miles. I had also thought about the observation Tom made about trying to take advantage of the current inflated used car prices by trading his car in on a new car. I loved my Honda Accord hybrid which I leased but he won't consider any Honda. I felt the Sonata was probably the next-best of the new car hybrids. The long warranty would be important. The newer Leaf has an extended range on the base model and 220+ miles on the upgraded one. Since he charges at work he would have no worries on those ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 The newer Leaf has an extended range on the base model and 220+ miles on the upgraded one. Since he charges at work he would have no worries on those ranges. Highway miles in the winter will not be anywhere near the rated range, but if his commute is only 100 miles it's probably fine. This is true of any EV. Thought I'm honestly not sure an EV is the right car for a 1 car household. What happens when he can't charge up or needs to run some errands? It could be limiting at some point. He'll also need to install a faster charger wherever he lives, which could be on one end easy, in the middle expensive, and on the far end impossible (apartment?). Even if he has a house, he could find a situation where he's on the more expensive end of a charger install. Spending multiple thousands on an EV charger install is the wrong direction economically for what this is trying to accomplish. The leaf's also got a bad wrap because the few early year one's had poor battery cooling and they had batter degradation issues. They also had lower range to begin with. So lower range + de-rated battery + winter + highway = very low miles compared to rated. As you said, the newer ones have higher range and as far as I've read don't seem to have the same battery degradation issues. I believe they went to a more robust (water VS air) cooling system for the batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 ... also stay far away from a BOLT & LEAF Seems like a blanket statement. As I said above, I believe only the first few years of Leaf's had the battery degredatoin issues and gave it a bad wrap. But if you know of other issues, I'm all ears. The Bolt's are under a second recall for the batteries. It does seems to be a huge mess. Seemingly it's only an issue with a specific battery from a specific plant they used from 2017-2019. Once they actually figure out the issue and fix it may be fine, but only time will tell. It's not confidence inspiring that they had a fix that didn't actually fix it and had to do a second recall just a few months later. In the mean time it will be hard to impossible to buy one anyway, as Chevy can't/won't sell them. 2020's and up should be fine, they use a different battery from a different plant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1647545532 Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 I was going to suggest a Bolt but I admittedly don't know anything about these battery recalls. I'm usually 100% in favor of "fix what you got" as being the cheapest solution, but 1000 miles a week and free charging at work turns this into a different question. Tesla cannot possibly be the answer but Bolts are dirt cheap compared to everything else on the used market. Maybe that's for a reason, but 50k miles per year means whatever he buys is going to be disposable anyway. Why shell out a shitload of money on a Model3 that's going to rack up those kinds of miles? A 2017 Bolt with 20k miles is like 20 grand or less right now. At 22mpg in the Scion, just the return trip from work every day costs him $300 a month. Free charging at work for the Bolt, even if it only covers that return trip, boom... that's his monthly payment. Free car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE-O Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 Seems like a blanket statement. As I said above, I believe only the first few years of Leaf's had the battery degredatoin issues and gave it a bad wrap. But if you know of other issues, I'm all ears. The Bolt's are under a second recall for the batteries. It does seems to be a huge mess. Seemingly it's only an issue with a specific battery from a specific plant they used from 2017-2019. Once they actually figure out the issue and fix it may be fine, but only time will tell. It's not confidence inspiring that they had a fix that didn't actually fix it and had to do a second recall just a few months later. In the mean time it will be hard to impossible to buy one anyway, as Chevy can't/won't sell them. 2020's and up should be fine, they use a different battery from a different plant. The newer leafs have not been out long enough to convince me their range is enough fir normal daily use long term. The batteries tend to overheat quickly and kill the estimated range they claim. Also they looks like hell. If a battery spontaneously bursting into flames is not enough reason to avoid a BOLT until they actually solve the recall issue then idk what to tell you more about not buying one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 ...but I admittedly don't know anything about these battery recalls. We were going to buy one around November/December but as soon as we got serious they issued the first recall with no fix but a temporary 'patch' to not fully charge or deplete and park outside. This was for current owners but any that Chevy had they would not/could not sell. They released a SW fix a month or two ago, and a few weeks ago said 'Opps, it didn't work' and issued another recall with an upcoming fix. Some are catching on fire, not good! So now we are going on something like 8-9 months of 2 recalls. AFAIK this only applies to 2017-19 as they used LG Chem batteries from a specific factory/chemistry. The 2020+ is a different battery. I guess now now they are going to try to somehow narrow down which specific batteries/cells had the issue and just fix/replace those. Basically it seems like Chevy is trying to do anything they can to not just replace the batteries. https://my.chevrolet.com/how-to-support/safety/boltevrecall https://www.google.com/search?q=bolt+battery+recall From what I understand Hyundai was using the same batteries from the same factory and issued a recall to replace all of them. IIRC they said it was going to cost them nearly $1 billion and their stock dropped 5% when the announced the recall and approximate cost. In Q2 2021 alone GM spent $800 million on the above recall that didn't fix the issue. It'll be a pricey fix if Chevy has to replace all of those Bolt batteries. https://www.google.com/search?q=hyundai+ev+battery+recall I think I remember reading something about a class action already starting, I can't imagine one won't happen and some settlement will happen with $ to Bolt owners once this is all finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 The newer leafs have not been out long enough to convince me their range is enough fir normal daily use long term. The batteries tend to overheat quickly and kill the estimated range they claim. Also they looks like hell. I can't strongly argue either of those points, especially the second one. I'm not sure I agree completely with the first half, but other than cheap prices I don't think there's an otherwise strong reason to buy the Leaf regardless. If a battery spontaneously bursting into flames is not enough reason to avoid a BOLT until they actually solve the recall issue then idk what to tell you more about not buying one Again, this is true for the 2017-19 and you can't buy them (from Chevy) anyway and 90%+ are at Chevy dealerships, so it's a moot point. The 2020+ are a different battery with a different chemistry from a different plant so they should be fine. It seems like NHTSA has not identified them as an issue so we aren't just taking Chevy's word on this point. My overall point was that blanket statements aren't fair when it might be a few years of either car that's caused a bad reputation and beyond that they are fine. This seems like they case with both of these cars. I don't think an EV is the right car here anyway, and we had a PHEV and want an EV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 If he's an EV Fan or fan of the future so-to-speak, and he likes Toyota, perhaps go out of state and find a RAV 4 Plug in PRIME. I drove one and seriously considered it for the wife when we bought hers. They aren't cheap but they are still a decent value in the mid $35 to 42k range. Plenty of power, dare I say very quick around town AWD Larger than a car and while not muscular, they are less of a CUV than other choices Lots of tech and features No range anxiety and overall great MPG's with upwards of 40+ miles of pure EV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cranium Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 My way of thinking might be changing a little bit on this. With an hour plus commute each way, the auto drive feature of the Tesla becomes appealing. My coworker who has the model 3 has commented a few times that since he got the Tesla he has noticed that he is not as fatigued when he gets to work in the morning and home in the evening. Also, your relative is young and not supporting a family, so a somewhat fun/impractical car kind of is an option. I'm not saying it's the smart move, but most everyone on this site has bought a car at some point they shouldn't have because fuck it, why not. Once he has a house and a family to take care of, a splurge like a Tesla probably isn't in the cards until much later, so why not do it now while he can get away with it? It's not the smart move, but it's the fun move. This is based on a few things though. 1) He loves his job and is planning on being there long term. 2) He loves where he lives, and is planning on being there long term. 3) He has the finances to make this a viable option. If he's tied to those things, then the commute is simply going to be part of his life for the foreseeable future. If he's going to be spending 20ish hours per week in the car he may as well be comfortable and driving something reliable. If he can afford the Tesla then why not? Are there more efficient options, hell yes. Are there better options, hell yes. Are there cheaper and better options, hell yes. If he's making great money and isn't sitting on a shit ton of debt why not? If the EV aspect becomes a problem, or the financial aspect becomes a problem, there is a decent market to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted August 9, 2021 Report Share Posted August 9, 2021 With an hour plus commute each way, the auto drive feature of the Tesla becomes appealing. My coworker who has the model 3 has commented a few times that since he got the Tesla he has noticed that he is not as fatigued when he gets to work in the morning and home in the evening. This is 100% accurate. If I have to drive more than an hour, I don't want to drive anything else. The auto-drive feature is really that good. You don't notice it when you use it, you notice once you get used to it and have to drive something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Sweet Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 My dad has a Bolt, and absolutely loves it. He researched the battery issue and says it's way overblown, I don't remember what he said but he doesn't seem the least bit worried about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted August 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 Thanks, everyone, for the information. It's been helpful. My great nephew read the thread and we discussed options. For now, he's going to continue with his current car, putting oil in each week. After he gets at least six months on the new job, he's going to reassess if he wants to move, and also by then there may be options to work from home part of the time. He's leaning towards a base Tesla Model 3 for all the reasons already noted. He thinks driving will be less of a chore in something he enjoys more, and I can't argue with that. Out of curiosity, do Tesla's wear out at some point? Or do they rust out in a climate like ours? At what age/mileage do the batteries start to fail? I had a Mk3 Golf diesel with 450k miles on it when I sold it. No problems, no major repairs, looked new aside from driver seat wear and paint chips. Do any Teslas have credible stories like that? This addresses my questions, but seems too good to be true: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/how-many-miles-will-a-tesla-last/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99FLHRCI Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 1000 miles a week, I'm guessing 150+ miles a day 5 days a week? The remainder for weekend/errands. He will need either a Supercharger or a Wall Connector. I would suggest the Wall Connector for at home regardless of what he has at work. If he takes some time off, he will need a good way to charge. $500 plus install (requiring 60A 240v). Putting 52k a year, and possibly using a Supercharger at work almost daily, I would be concerned about the Battery Pack. Here is a good read with links to maintenance and comparisons: https://electrek.co/2018/07/17/tesla-model-s-holds-up-400000-miles-3-years/ I would suggest looking for either an electric car with ICE backup or an ICE car. As far as driver fatigue, many manufacturers are coming out with driver assistance systems (not on the level of Tesla yet) that will help. I would also suggest looking at the cost breakdown of how much he will actually save with an electric car vs. an ICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mensan Posted August 11, 2021 Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 Out of curiosity, do Tesla's wear out at some point? Or do they rust out in a climate like ours? At what age/mileage do the batteries start to fail? This addresses my questions, but seems too good to be true: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/how-many-miles-will-a-tesla-last/ I have had a few issues with mine, but all taken care of under warranty. If you buy used from Tesla (like I did) the car comes with a 50k mile bumper to bumper warranty. In my contract, I have an 8 year unlimited mile powertrain warranty as well, so if my batteries fail, they get replaced. No issues with the battery so far, EXCEPT during winter, it REALLY cuts into the range. The newer cars use a heat pump, which I've heard is much more efficient. Read the forums for more info, the community likes to talk about their cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc1647545523 Posted August 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2021 Thanks for your observations and advice, Eli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Maker Posted August 23, 2021 Report Share Posted August 23, 2021 Recall for Bolt battery expanded to all years with a stop sale issued. https://www.engadget.com/gm-expands-fire-risk-recall-all-chevy-bolt-115934063.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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