☆~PoLOLtics~☆

[99FLHRCI]

Sucks you lost your dad in situations like this.

 

Isn't Humira an immune suppressant? I know Humira is used for Crohns as well. The medication I take for Crohns makes me a lot more susceptible to other infections and diseases.

 

Im trying to tread lightly here but just because the time frame fits doesn't mean the drug caused your dads cancer right?

 

It is an immune suppressant. It has about 10 common uses. It does make you more susceptible to infections and diseases.

 

Humira has since been labeled as having a side effect of causing cancer. They mention abdominal pains in the right side specifically and needing to be checked.

Studies have shown a 3-5x increase in likelihood of developing cancer.

 

There is nothing conclusive enough to say yes in a court of law, this was the cause. However, the type he had is the kind they warn about. Most cases that have been linked are after under 10 months of use. it was enough that we were contacted by lawyers. It was also enough that when they moved to Parma to go to the Cleveland Clinic that is what the doctors pointed to. Combined with a PCP that did not pay attention to warning signs and complaints, it was to far advanced for much to be done.

 

The overall point, this is just one drug and one case. 27 drugs approved by the FDA after extensive testing have been pulled from the market since 2000 in the US alone. That does not include drugs with side effects still on the market (like Humira). Pfizer alone has received 40 fines in that time period for drug safety violations, false claims, kickbacks/bribery, consumer protection violation, etc. including the largest in history of $3.2B. This is the company we are supposed to trust on a product that has not completed testing? A company that has $5.6B in net profits for Q2 2021? Spends $13.2M a year in lobbying? A company with billions of dollars in preorders for their vaccine because it was the first approved? Their is a definite financial incentive to rush this process, cover up problems, and falsify data as they have in the past. I will wait for more real world long term data.

[cruizin01]

This was posted in the Nurse Reddit Sub yesterday. Ill just copy and paste for ease of reading. I feel sad and aggravated all at the same time that sooo many people dont have ANY compassion for whats happening.

 

He died in the goddam waiting room.

 

We were double capacity with 7 schedule holes today. Guy comes in and tells registration that he’s having chest pain. There’s no triage nurse because we’re grossly understaffed. He takes a seat in the waiting room and died. One of the PAs walked out crying saying she was going to quit. This is all going down while I’m bouncing between my pneumo from a stabbing in one room, my 60/40 retroperitneal hemorrhage on pressors with no ICU beds in another, my symptomatic COVID+ in another, and two more that were basically ignored. This has to stop.

[99FLHRCI]

I agree, but what's the alternative? Refuse the vaccine, don't wear a mask, and just say fuck it?

 

Or ask for more research, wear a mask when appropriate, social distance, wash hands frequently, etc.

 

I for sure don't think the answer is shut down the small places, allow major places to stay open, create mandates for the average Joe and not follow them as a lawmaker (Pelosi in a hair salon, congress fleeing a vote on a plane not wearing a mask, Obama hosting a massive birthday party, Biden mandating a vaccine that doesn't apply to congress or their staffers). At that point, it is not safety, stacking, dampening the curve, or anything but putting on a show.

 

Like I said, many are not trying to cast doubt and I don't know anyone wishing death or disease on vaxxers or even people trying to ban the vaccine. I do see a lot of people wanting transparency, complete studies, all the same stuff that was being asked for at the end of 2020 by the same people that are now trying to force it down our throats as the only option.

[greg1647545532]

Like I said, many are not trying to cast doubt

 

Many are not, but you sure are. Right? Isn't that exactly what you're doing by talking about Israel, talking about misattributed COVID deaths, etc?

 

eta: You and half the people in this thread, that is. Vaccines aren't as effective as they say, masks aren't as effective as they say, COVID isn't as deadly as they say, only the overweight and unhealthy have to worry... these are common refrains right here. Post after post trying to cast doubt on the science.

[99FLHRCI]

This was posted in the Nurse Reddit Sub yesterday. Ill just copy and paste for ease of reading. I feel sad and aggravated all at the same time that sooo many people dont have ANY compassion for whats happening.

 

He died in the goddam waiting room.

 

We were double capacity with 7 schedule holes today. Guy comes in and tells registration that he’s having chest pain. There’s no triage nurse because we’re grossly understaffed. He takes a seat in the waiting room and died. One of the PAs walked out crying saying she was going to quit. This is all going down while I’m bouncing between my pneumo from a stabbing in one room, my 60/40 retroperitneal hemorrhage on pressors with no ICU beds in another, my symptomatic COVID+ in another, and two more that were basically ignored. This has to stop.

 

So the solution is to fire those that work in the field and are asking for more information? I'm sure firing people will help the staffing issue. Take the vaccine, let it reduce or prevent your symptoms, and let other people make their choices. They highly suggest the hepatitis vaccine but, all we have to do is sign a no thank you paper. Same with many others, and we can still work in the first responder or medical field. We can even carry diseases (HIV, Hepatitis, etc.) and still be in the field. You can try and call off because you are sick and still be mandated in, carrying that flu that causes pneumonia in Grandma Betty. COVID is treated differently than anything else and that is where people get upset. Let us choose what we do with our body, our business, our life. When does the vaccine passport become a yellow arm band? There is only one side trying to force anyone to do anything. The other side just wants education and options.

[cruizin01]

It is an immune suppressant. It has about 10 common uses. It does make you more susceptible to infections and diseases.

 

Humira has since been labeled as having a side effect of causing cancer. They mention abdominal pains in the right side specifically and needing to be checked.

Studies have shown a 3-5x increase in likelihood of developing cancer.

 

There is nothing conclusive enough to say yes in a court of law, this was the cause. However, the type he had is the kind they warn about. Most cases that have been linked are after under 10 months of use. it was enough that we were contacted by lawyers. It was also enough that when they moved to Parma to go to the Cleveland Clinic that is what the doctors pointed to. Combined with a PCP that did not pay attention to warning signs and complaints, it was to far advanced for much to be done.

 

The overall point, this is just one drug and one case. 27 drugs approved by the FDA after extensive testing have been pulled from the market since 2000 in the US alone. That does not include drugs with side effects still on the market (like Humira). Pfizer alone has received 40 fines in that time period for drug safety violations, false claims, kickbacks/bribery, consumer protection violation, etc. including the largest in history of $3.2B. This is the company we are supposed to trust on a product that has not completed testing? A company that has $5.6B in net profits for Q2 2021? Spends $13.2M a year in lobbying? A company with billions of dollars in preorders for their vaccine because it was the first approved? Their is a definite financial incentive to rush this process, cover up problems, and falsify data as they have in the past. I will wait for more real world long term data.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I didn't realize there were those potential side effects with it.

[99FLHRCI]

Many are not, but you sure are. Right? Isn't that exactly what you're doing by talking about Israel, talking about misattributed COVID deaths, etc?

 

eta: You and half the people in this thread, that is. Vaccines aren't as effective as they say, masks aren't as effective as they say, COVID isn't as deadly as they say, only the overweight and unhealthy have to worry... these are common refrains right here. Post after post trying to cast doubt on the science.

 

Not cast doubt. Ask questions, ask for transparency, ask for time and answers. These are all showing examples of how our knowledge is changing with time and asking what more we will learn with time. First it was 2 weeks and masks will fix it. Then it was a 90% effective vaccine. Now it is a 60% effective vaccine that causes some side effects. What will we know after a full study? What will we know after peer reviews? What will we know after reviewing data and cleaning up numbers that were compiled in a panicked frenzy?

[cruizin01]

So the solution is to fire those that work in the field and are asking for more information? I'm sure firing people will help the staffing issue.

 

I didn't say I was for forced vaccinations. I hate that, that's even a thing. Im just frustrated in general that so many people are so against it, not hesitant like you just straight up ANGRY about it. I dont know you but you seem to be educated on the matter. Unfortunately it seems the vast majority aren't. They just repeat what they see on FB and because Biden says to do it they definitely won't do it now. They dont personally know anyone that's died so it cant be concerning. ​

 

My 80 year old grandmother wont get the vaccine because she is glued to Fox news and somehow she's more concerned about illegals coming across the boarder with covid (she lives in OHIO!) than she is about protecting herself by getting vaccinated. If God is ready to take me then that's what he's gonna do.. She doesn't seem concerned about leaving my grandpa alone with boggles my mind because they've been married 60 plus years.

 

 

I think there's something in the human psyche where you dont want to do something just because someone tells you too regardless of how much sense it makes

[greg1647545532]

Not cast doubt. Ask questions, ask for transparency, ask for time and answers.

 

Potato, potato.

 

The medical and public health communities have all of those same questions. Their recommendations have changed as they've gotten new information, and they know their recommendations will continue to change, because that's how science works. Meanwhile, people are dying and hospitals are full (again, sadly). So they're going to keep pushing vaccines for a reason.

 

Everybody involved in these decisions would love more time to do research. Meanwhile, a lot of people are running out of time in ICUs.

 

You can call it what you want, but nitpicking things here and there in order to justify a distrust of the medical community is casting doubt during a crisis, even if you phrase it as "just asking questions."

[greg1647545532]

Anyway, good exchange with minimal name calling.

[99FLHRCI]

Anyway, good exchange with minimal name calling.

 

Agreed. Am I missing a "like" button or is that not an option on this forum?

[greg1647545532]

Agreed. Am I missing a "like" button or is that not an option on this forum?

 

We're not allowed to like each other.

[Mallard]

When does the vaccine passport become a yellow arm band? There is only one side trying to force anyone to do anything. The other side just wants education and options.

 

I hate the false equivalency the Right is trying to make about vaccines and Nazi Germany. This is nowhere close. We have all been forced to vaccinate ourselves and our children for school and travel for many, many years. George Washington was responsible for the first vaccine mandate in the US, changing his mind after he saw how badly it would affect his army. Do not belittle the experiences of the Holocaust by equating it to an anti vaxxer 'struggle.'

 

That said, the 'other side' does not just want education and opinions. Look at FL and TX making laws and punishments against masks (among other things). They're putting mandates in place too, just on the opposite side, making it that much more difficult to change course based on data, or for an organization to determine their own countermeasures based on their determination of risk.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Mallard]

Not cast doubt. Ask questions, ask for transparency, ask for time and answers. These are all showing examples of how our knowledge is changing with time and asking what more we will learn with time. First it was 2 weeks and masks will fix it. Then it was a 90% effective vaccine. Now it is a 60% effective vaccine that causes some side effects. What will we know after a full study? What will we know after peer reviews? What will we know after reviewing data and cleaning up numbers that were compiled in a panicked frenzy?

 

This reads like a Tucker Carlson transcript.

 

He's always just asking questions (often times that already have answers) for the sole purpose of casting doubt.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Mallard]

We're not allowed to like each other.

[emoji38]

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Geeto67]

This reads like a Tucker Carlson transcript.

 

He's always just asking questions (often times that already have answers) for the sole purpose of casting doubt.

 

 

It's what passes for intellectualism among conservative pundits these days. Not interested in any actual information - if they can cast doubt and make something seem suspicious that's as far as they take it, then the unwashed masses pickup the doubt and run crazy with it, and the next thing you know people are taking livestock doses of a dewormer thinking it treats viruses.

[Green Bastard]

It's what passes for intellectualism among conservative pundits these days. Not interested in any actual information - if they can cast doubt and make something seem suspicious that's as far as they take it, then the unwashed masses pickup the doubt and run crazy with it, and the next thing you know people are taking livestock doses of a dewormer thinking it treats viruses.

 

Nobody here is trying to sway anyone away from getting the vaccine, in fact, we have said multiple times that if people are comfortable getting it then they should. People have explained why they are hesitant or want more info.

 

Also, nobody here in this thread is dumb enough (I hope) to take livestock doses of a dewormer for covid.

 

Edit: I just reread your comment, I see it isn't directed towards anyone in this thread. Carry on.

[greg1647545532]

Well, my idiot anti-vax sister that I mentioned a few pages ago got her whole family infected with covid and now my idiot unvaccinated brother in law is in the ER.

 

Anyone want to guess his BMI?

[Furloaf]

I wasn't sure which spelling was the proper one, but thank you.

 

Generally, something that is Acting is an Affect, and something that is a rEsult is an Effect.

[99FLHRCI]

I hate the false equivalency the Right is trying to make about vaccines and Nazi Germany. This is nowhere close. We have all been forced to vaccinate ourselves and our children for school and travel for many, many years. George Washington was responsible for the first vaccine mandate in the US, changing his mind after he saw how badly it would affect his army. Do not belittle the experiences of the Holocaust by equating it to an anti vaxxer 'struggle.'

 

We have been asked to vaccinate, we have not been mandated. We have also never been made to carry a passport to prove any medical status to enter a restaurant, purchase tickets, etc. We have not had businesses face legal repercussions for employing people that do not comply. Nazi Germany did not occur overnight. The party started in 1920. The war started in 1939. 19 years they grew before they became a problem that needed dealt with. First Jews just needed to identify themselves. Then it was adding markers to their papers. Then It was carrying papers. Then it was wearing arm bands and sewing stars on their clothing. Do I think that the vaccine hesitant (we aren't anti) are being forced into train cars to be sent off to camps? No. Do I think this is a dangerous slope? Yes. There has already been talk have the need to have the vaccinated easily identified with a mark on their clothing. There are places you have to prove it with a passport. There are places only allowed to be entered by those people. Their are financial penalties for not complying. There are rewards for turning in your peers. Do you think that in 1925, 1930, that most of Germany understood where they were headed? What freedoms are okay to lose? What mandates are okay? If it is so good, why are some people exempt?

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist

 

Then they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

 

Then they came for the trade unionists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist

 

Then they came for the Jews

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew

 

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me

[99FLHRCI]

This reads like a Tucker Carlson transcript.

 

He's always just asking questions (often times that already have answers) for the sole purpose of casting doubt.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

If the answers are already known, please point me in the direction. i honestly want to know.

[99FLHRCI]

Well, my idiot anti-vax sister that I mentioned a few pages ago got her whole family infected with covid and now my idiot unvaccinated brother in law is in the ER.

 

Anyone want to guess his BMI?

 

Wanna guess where my last 2 positive exposures came from? Hint: Wasn't someone "just asking questions".

[Mallard]

We have been asked to vaccinate, we have not been mandated. We have also never been made to carry a passport to prove any medical status to enter a restaurant, purchase tickets, etc. We have not had businesses face legal repercussions for employing people that do not comply. Nazi Germany did not occur overnight. The party started in 1920. The war started in 1939. 19 years they grew before they became a problem that needed dealt with. First Jews just needed to identify themselves. Then it was adding markers to their papers. Then It was carrying papers. Then it was wearing arm bands and sewing stars on their clothing. Do I think that the vaccine hesitant (we aren't anti) are being forced into train cars to be sent off to camps? No. Do I think this is a dangerous slope? Yes. There has already been talk have the need to have the vaccinated easily identified with a mark on their clothing. There are places you have to prove it with a passport. There are places only allowed to be entered by those people. Their are financial penalties for not complying. There are rewards for turning in your peers. Do you think that in 1925, 1930, that most of Germany understood where they were headed? What freedoms are okay to lose? What mandates are okay? If it is so good, why are some people exempt?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First they came for the Communists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Communist

 

 

 

Then they came for the Socialists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Socialist

 

 

 

Then they came for the trade unionists

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a trade unionist

 

 

 

Then they came for the Jews

 

And I did not speak out

 

Because I was not a Jew

 

 

 

Then they came for me

 

And there was no one left

 

To speak out for me

You HAVE been mandated to get vaccinated before in order to attend public school. Many hospitals already require staff to have vaccines, even a yearly flu shot (yes, some give options like, if you don't get a flu shot you have to wear a mask during flu season). The military requires a whole slew of vaccinations, originating with George Washington (in case there's any question about what our founding fathers would have thought about it).

 

In past pandemics you did have to show proof of vaccination in order to get into certain places. The difference was with the smallpox vaccine you were left with a scar, so you'd just be asked to roll up your sleeve. And yes, back then people were selling fake scars to stick on, much like people are doing now with vaccine cards. During the Spanish Flu people were required to wear masks in order to go places.

 

This is nothing like the beginnings of Nazi Germany, and I find it repulsive that people compare it to that while saying nothing about Trump's authoritarianism, his cult following that turn violent against their own country, his vilification of immigrants and refugees, his vilification of anyone who disagrees with him (whether Democrat or being labeled a RINO and pushing someone out of the party), Georgia and Texas's new voting laws (among other states now copying it), or Texas's new abortion law.

 

You say there are rewards for turning in people for being unvaccinated, but I'm not sure what you're even referring to. Maybe you could explain that, because all I'm aware of is people being turned in for selling or using fake vaccination cards, which is fraud. Compare that to $10k any one can get for turning in someone they even think had an abortion, or even the person who drove them to a doctor's office.

 

The policies around COVID are the same as have been practiced in the US in the past and present when working to control viruses. This is nothing like Nazi Germany, and if people are so concerned with resembling the Nazi's they should be more cognizant of the alt-right politicians they have elected and continue to worship.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Geeto67]

There are places only allowed to be entered by those people. Their are financial penalties for not complying. There are rewards for turning in your peers.

 

You know this is more akin to the fugitive slave act in this country than it is to the Nazi's (who actually subcontracted bounty hunters) but I don't see anybody rushing to make that comparison. I wonder why.

 

 

Do you think that in 1925, 1930, that most of Germany understood where they were headed? What freedoms are okay to lose? What mandates are okay? If it is so good, why are some people exempt?

 

In some ways they did and in some ways they didn't.

 

As someone who had holocaust survivors in their family, I've had this discussion many times growing up and the reality is yes they saw it coming. Poverty is a motherfucker though and the majority of people didn't have the ability to move because moving cost money. Those who did have the money began to leave but the German government didn't want them taking their wealth with them so it was taxed and confiscated as part of a brutal emigration/deportation scheme. in 1933 alone 38,000 Jews left Germany for France, Belgium, etc... (many to be recaptured during the 1940's as Germany invaded those countries).

 

What they didn't see coming was the mass executions which didn't actually begin until late 1938. Between '33 and '38 Germany was deporting people out of country, so most assumed the roundup after 1938 were deportation patrols. The thing about genocide is nobody really sees it coming, it's too horrible an act to really think would ever happen to you. In addition the German government was really good at keeping it a secret. Majority of Free Germans didn't know that's what happened in the concentration camps, Russia found out in 1941 and the US didn't find out until 1942 - a full 4 years after it began, and only because of the vast network of spies those forces were running against the German war machine.

 

 

For a long time in the greatest generation, there was this mantra that if you were a German Civilian living in that time you are considered a Nazi - because what was going on was so open and obvious to the majority of the population as wrong, even if they didn't know about the actual genocide. The excuse by those on trial of "I was just following orders" became a joke in its own right because it was used so frequently AND because nobody believed it.

 

 

This is why the comparison is moot, and frankly insulting. The breadth and scope of the actions of the NAZI's are so far beyond what you can comprehend as a denial of liberty, and the word NAZI has become a stand-in for the word "evil" that it has lost its context. Most of the "Liberties" I hear people moaning about losing in this pandemic weren't their liberties to begin with. Your rights end when another's begin, your rights aren't superior to any body else's - you can't force the shop keeper to be open because you want to shop.

 

The majority of mandates are health and safety - which are long established within the power of state and local governments to regulate (going back to before the founding of this country). I have yet to see where anybody has permanently lost any "rights".

[Tractor]

There are many people who were in Hospice, who had terminal conditions, who were after a predictable death tested for COVID and then listed as a COVID death. As the officials stated, "Dying with COVID is the same as dying from COVID". Last April, Deborah Birx, MD, coordinator of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said this when asked about people who have COVID-19 but die from preexisting conditions: “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.” They were stating things like a Hear Attack were caused by COVID and the original cause was COVID. Fast forward to this year when they begin discussing the first "breakthrough" deaths of vaccinated individuals. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky stated "Not all of those 223 cases who had COVID actually died of COVID," she said. "They may have had mild disease but died, for example, of a heart attack." All through this Pandemic people with cancer, and other illnesses that had predictions of even 30 days or less to live were marked as COVID deaths UNTIL it went against the vaccine agenda and talking points.

 

This is 100% true, my sister in law is a nurse in Ohio and was reassigned to handle critical patients during the worst of it last year and saw exactly this constantly. They had 100+ yr old people die from head injuries from falls and were mark COVID death among other things where people were already terminal.