To the police officers on the site

[ReconRat]

Its an M1 for us. I don't think any judge in the world would uphold a fleeing and eluding charge based on an unmarked car stop. Easy defense: I didn't think it was a real police car and I didn't stop in fear of being butt raped.

LOL +1 for that

[tomato_racing]

Not to offend anyone on here, but cops are lame. Some of the shit they do, they shouldnt be allowed to do.

I would say for every lame one I've met that I have met one at the opposite end of the spectrum. Some cops are really cool and are genuinely out here to make the streets safer and not just to meet a supposed quota

[FasDuc]

I was just driving down the high when I saw a Police Officer, with all his lights off (headlights etc) outside his car doing Radar. I was just wondering if thats allowed. Because thats bullshit, Id be pissed if i got a ticket with him doing that. Or if anyone else has info on this post it. And i didnt really look to see if its a repost, so if it is, sorry.

I didn't take the time to read the whole thread so i apologize if it's already been said....

The state laws allow an officer to black-out (turn his lights off) or hide to set a "speed trap". But, all that is against the Columbus PD SOP. We do not do speed traps (Before you ask, sitting on the side of the freeway is NOT a speed trap). So, if you get a ticket by a Columbus officer that has hidden his vehicle the court will still allow it..... however you could file a complaint against the officer with the department.

In the future if anyone here has a police or specifically a Columbus PD related question you can PM me, i promise I'll try and give you a fair and accurate answer.

BTW, good to see some of you at Mid-O last Monday. Take care Who-Dey and heal up.

[FasDuc]

So if you didnt stop for an unmarked car, would you get a fleeing and evading? because thats a felony isnt it? i thought i heard it was?

Ohio law does NOT allow unmarked vehicles to make traffic stops.

[RSVDon]

Haha, if you're pissed because they have no lights on then don't come to Michigan. They can sit in the center with no lights period, and their cars don't have anything reflective on the side like the OSP do. Plus the staties are painted a darker color.

You won't see them until you are on top of them and your headlights shine on the reflectors in their headlights. At which point you're already fucked.

[NinjaNick]

2004 in Indiana I got pulled over by a Camaro. I thought the guy wanted to race or something by the way he raced up between my buddy and I. Then...BAM, there's lights flashing from the back window.

[12oclocker]

I got another one for you guys....

What the hell is the difference between a red light and a stop sign, if there is NO TRAFFIC.

Every f'king night I come home from work, there is a red light that is 5 f'king minutes long, when I am getting off the interstate, at 1am, and there is absolutely no cars in either direction.

WHY THE F'K should I have to sit at RED LIGHT, with NO TRAFFIC in an EMPTY INTERSECTION for 5 MINUTES!

Humans are smart enough to check for cars at a stop sign and turn left, what the hell is the difference...

There is none!

I can guarantee you the cop siting at the gas station is just smiling and waiting for someone to pull over for running that light too.

Who cares! the INTERSECTION IS EMPTY!!!

Something else I've noticed!!!!!!

Intersections that are getting red light cameras, I have noticed they are starting to LOWER THE DURATION OF THE YELLOW LIGHT.

Not all of them, but I have noticed at least a few like this, now that is some scamming bullshit!

[ross]

Something else I've noticed!!!!!!

Intersections that are getting red light cameras, I have noticed they are starting to LOWER THE DURATION OF THE YELLOW LIGHT.

Not all of them, but I have noticed at least a few like this, now that is some scamming bullshit!

I've noticed that too.

I was on summit heading towards 11th ave on osu campus a couple weeks ago around midnight. the light at 12th was green and went to yellow and was instantly red. i had plenty of time and room to stop but i went from ~45mph to stopped fairly quickly. the sensors must have been activated because i came to a stop and the red light cam flashed. so all they got was a pic of me sitting on the bike with my hands off the bars and my foot down

[Moto-Brian]

it is not allowed! I am a police officer an you must have AT LEAST your parking lights on. That goes for Ohio, KY, and IN.

As stated earlier, it is not a law. I know the Highway Patrol has a "policy" that has them follow protocol and run at least marker lights at night. Typically, the Sheriff department follows this same policy.

It is an internal deal and most if not the rest of City Police can do whatever they want in terms of lights or no lights. It isn't a law and it isn't something that all do...

[DLN1223]

Just in case everyone is Not aware of this.

The police work for US. our tax dollars pay their salary.

They are hired to serve and protect the people.

But have you noticed instead of serving and protecting,

the system is being more and more designed to prey on the public.

New laws are designed, not for our safety, but to figure out ways for government to increase their revenue from us.

And the police departments want to give us tickets for any shit they can to increase their department revenue, its bullshit.

How do you feel knowing the police departments primary objective now is to prey on the public and issue tickets to increase their deparments revenue, and this seems to be pretty much the standard across the board now days.

Ever looked at what operating fund that money goes too........

[shittygsxr]

R1_MP. Would you please show me the ORC section that states this? I've been an officer in Ohio for the past 15 years. This would be a new one for me. As I am also the FTO at my department, having taken additional training to teach new officers, I would be interested in where you heard that this was law? It may be YOUR department's policy, but it's not law. I've been at departments that require lights on, but have not in 15 years been shown a law that states this. My current department does not require lights on. I figure that if we were violating law the court magistrate would have corrected it by now. Hundreds if not thousands of cites have been written to date with no sign of indiscretion. And yes, it has been brought up in court on more than one occasion. They ended up paying the fine and court costs.

So I guess we can expect to see you sitting there with your lights on in the future? If not can you at least make sure that your vehicle is not on pavement?

ORC 4513.10 Lights on parked vehicles.

(A) Except in case of an emergency, whenever a vehicle is parked or stopped upon a roadway open to traffic or a shoulder adjacent thereto, whether attended or unattended, during the times mentioned in section 4513.03 of the Revised Code, such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more lights which shall exhibit a white or amber light on the roadway side visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle, and a red light visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the rear. No lights need be displayed upon any such vehicle when it is stopped or parked within a municipal corporation where there is sufficient light to reveal any person or substantial object within a distance of five hundred feet upon such highway. Any lighted headlights upon a parked vehicle shall be depressed or dimmed.

(B) Whoever violates this section shall be punished as provided in section 4513.99 of the Revised Code.

Effective Date: 01-01-2004

[shittygsxr]

The problem with this law is that I don't know any department's other than OSP who have cruisers dedicated to ONLY enforcing traffic laws. Our cruisers are on duty for various functions. Traffic enforcement being only one of them.

The main problem is that you dont understand the law. The motor vehicle doesnt have to be used exclusively for traffic stops, it is saying if the main purpose of the officers presence in an area if for traffic stops. So if you are sitting on the shoulder of the highway without your lights on standing outside of your cruiser with a speed measuring device a lawyer would argue that you main purpose was to enforce traffic laws and need to be in a "marked" car

ORC 4549.13 Marking and equipment for motor vehicle used by traffic enforcement officers.

Any motor vehicle used by a member of the state highway patrol or by any other peace officer, while said officer is on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the motor vehicle or traffic laws of this state, provided the offense is punishable as a misdemeanor, shall be marked in some distinctive manner or color and shall be equipped with, but need not necessarily have in operation at all times, at least one flashing, oscillating, or rotating colored light mounted outside on top of the vehicle. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall specify what constitutes such a distinctive marking or color for the state highway patrol.

[V4junkie]

^^^ +rep

[shittygsxr]

^^^ +rep

Thank you thank you. I will be here all week.

[Big Green Valley]

The main problem is that you dont understand the law.

Quite honestly, neither do you.

4549.13 Marking and equipment for motor vehicle used by traffic enforcement officers.

Any motor vehicle used by a member of the state highway patrol or by any other peace officer, while said officer is on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the motor vehicle or traffic laws of this state, provided the offense is punishable as a misdemeanor, shall be marked in some distinctive manner or color and shall be equipped with, but need not necessarily have in operation at all times, at least one flashing, oscillating, or rotating colored light mounted outside on top of the vehicle. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall specify what constitutes such a distinctive marking or color for the state highway patrol.

The bolded wording simply means that a Police Cruiser must be marked as a Police Cruiser.

VMX12C has done a very good job of articulating the difference between what Ohio Law covers vs. a specific Police Departments policy.

You don't like what you're hearing or reading and therefore may never agree with it. It's okay to have an opinion and to speak your mind and disagree. But in the end, speed limits and laws exist and if you decide to violate those speed limits and laws then you have made your choice.

Violate the law and get caught, accept the penalty.

The speed limits are posted and are there to be adhered to regardless of Police Officer presence.

[magley64]

But in the end, speed limits and laws exist and if you decide to violate those speed limits and laws then you have made your choice.

Violate the law and get caught, accept the penalty.

The speed limits are posted and are there to be adhered to regardless of Police Officer presence.

Q: What's the purpose of the law?

A: To protect the public.

If the law being broken is NOT in place to protect the public, then it should be irrelevant.

I get the argument all the time "the law is the law because it's the law"

NO...the law is in place to protect the public...

and I don't blame it ALL on police officers, it's just their job to enforce the law, but they do have the initial authority and discretion of whether a law needs to be enforced at a particular time or in a particular situation.

for example, it's against the law to ride lawnmower on your own property if you've been drinking..but honestly, what cop is going to persue that? Who is in danger? probably NOBODY...

I just wish police officers would worry less about quotas (whether implied or quantified) and more about honestly protecting the public.

[Disclaimer]

The 4549.13 law cited has to do with is the MARKINGS and equipment on the vehicles. It has nothing to do with the operation thereof.

The ORC 4513.10 that shitty posted would be the applicable statute here. If the cop (or anyone) has the vehicle "parked" (which I assume means, at rest, 0 mph - not the that the transmission is in 'P') on a road, or adjacent to, whether attended or unattended, there needs to be some lighting visible at a 500ft distance. Whether that lighting is provided on the vehicle itself, or some overhead/street lighting - the vehicle must be lit.

[shittygsxr]

Quite honestly, neither do you.

4549.13 Marking and equipment for motor vehicle used by traffic enforcement officers.

Any motor vehicle used by a member of the state highway patrol or by any other peace officer, while said officer is on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the motor vehicle or traffic laws of this state, provided the offense is punishable as a misdemeanor, shall be marked in some distinctive manner or color and shall be equipped with, but need not necessarily have in operation at all times, at least one flashing, oscillating, or rotating colored light mounted outside on top of the vehicle. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall specify what constitutes such a distinctive marking or color for the state highway patrol.

The bolded wording simply means that a Police Cruiser must be marked as a Police Cruiser.

VMX12C has done a very good job of articulating the difference between what Ohio Law covers vs. a specific Police Departments policy.

You don't like what you're hearing or reading and therefore may never agree with it. It's okay to have an opinion and to speak your mind and disagree. But in the end, speed limits and laws exist and if you decide to violate those speed limits and laws then you have made your choice.

Violate the law and get caught, accept the penalty.

The speed limits are posted and are there to be adhered to regardless of Police Officer presence.

Quite honestly I do understand the law. You need to spend some more time in school. The law you are citing refers to what markings a police vehicle needs to have to distinguish it from a civilian vehicle. THE END

This issue because very popular in the nineties when people where purchasing flashing lights and pulling people over. There were more than a few cases where people where robbed, raped, or killed. Not necessarily in that order.

The ORC that I cited said a vehicle on the roadway open to traffic or a shoulder adjacent thereto, whether attended or unattended, during the times mentioned in section 4513.03 of the Revised Code, such vehicle shall be equipped with one or more lights which shall exhibit a white or amber light on the roadway side visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the front of such vehicle, and a red light visible from a distance of five hundred feet to the rear.

I really hope that you are not a cop, because if you can't understand the law you should not be in charge of holding people to it.

[RSVDon]

Uh, BGV, speaking of interpreting as you'd like to hear. You missed bolding the next sentence in that quote. That statement refers only to the blue and red lights that must be mounted to the top of the car. Half that quote has nothing to do with running lights.

[krzwhtman]

the law is thrown out in court , there are many laws abiding to traffic , must be clearly marked ..... MUST use sirens in route if they encounter the need ... civilians http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4513.21 ,http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.041. i have a pet peeve with that , parma only uses lights all over community till the have to ask someone to move, or wanna blow a light instead of waiting when not in persuit . it is dangerous to the citizens of the community.persuit of misdemeanor over 10 miles about the speed limit is in violation,the new law was resinded.http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.24, for the safety of civilization. there are alot of laws that are there , that are commonly overlooked.

also you will always see troopers in their Smokey because in order to give a citation the officer must be in complete uniform in the state. which no one ever follows that.

[V4junkie]

4549.13 Marking and equipment for motor vehicle used by traffic enforcement officers.

Any motor vehicle used by a member of the state highway patrol or by any other peace officer, while said officer is on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the motor vehicle or traffic laws of this state, provided the offense is punishable as a misdemeanor, shall be marked in some distinctive manner or color and shall be equipped with, but need not necessarily have in operation at all times, at least one flashing, oscillating, or rotating colored light mounted outside on top of the vehicle. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall specify what constitutes such a distinctive marking or color for the state highway patrol.

The bolded wording simply means that a Police Cruiser must be marked as a Police Cruiser.

There was a lot to read here so you can get off the hook. There are two separate arguments going on here. One about unmarked cars and traffic stops and the other about Traffic stops at night where cruisers are "blacked out." The law should interpret itself. Your post, frankly, shows a hell of a lot of bias, and by reading the law itself I would not come to any of your conclusions, especially in the context of this topic.

"Random road tax" is the most accurate description I have heard of traffic tickets thus far. Unfortunately the civilian is at a huge disadvantage in Ohio when it comes to defending onesself, not to mention the faith we place in all law enforcement to know the law and have the public's safety first in mind. The system sucks and it gets worse all the time.

Disclaimer: This is not a blanket statement, I have a problem with the system and not necessarily all of the people placed within it.

[shittygsxr]

the law is thrown out in court , there are many laws abiding to traffic , must be clearly marked ..... MUST use sirens in route . i have a pet peeve with that , parma only uses lights all over community till the have to ask someone to move, or wanna blow a light instead of waiting when not in persuit . it is dangerous to the citizens of the community.persuit of misdemeanor over 10 miles about the speed limit is in violation, for the safety of civilization. there are alot of laws that are there , that are commonly overlooked.

also you will always see troopers in their Smokey because in order to give a citation the officer must be in complete uniform in the state. which no one ever follows that.

I had a cop up on the stand once when I was 20 and I started questioning him. All of the real attourneys in the back of the room started laughing as I pointed out the super powers of the cop. The officer then said "Let me guess you are going to ask if I was wearing my hat next" I polietly said "No, because that only applies to Highway Patrol officers, but you were wearing your goofy hat" I still had to pay some court costs but they waived my fine, if I am going to have to pay court costs then I am going to court.

[Big Green Valley]

. . but they do have the initial authority and discretion of whether a law needs to be enforced at a particular time or in a particular situation.

I agree with you to a certain degree. When it pertains to speed limits I have stopped and issued more written warnings than citations. I have some tolerance for those who go over the speed limit, but not for those who speed excessively.

If the general flow of traffic is traveling at a rate of speed in excess of the speed limit, but flowing smoothly, who should I stop?

I realize that life is not black and white. (No pun intended) There are many shades of gray.

Remember that it is my job to enforce the law. I do my best to be fair and enforce the law equally and as equitably as possible.

[V4junkie]

If the general flow of traffic is traveling at a rate of speed in excess of the speed limit, but flowing smoothly, who should I stop?

The one in immediate danger, ie: no one.

[shittygsxr]

I agree with you to a certain degree. When it pertains to speed limits I have stopped and issued more written warnings than citations. I have some tolerance for those who go over the speed limit, but not for those who speed excessively.

If the general flow of traffic is traveling at a rate of speed in excess of the speed limit, but flowing smoothly, who should I stop?

I realize that life is not black and white. (No pun intended) There are many shades of gray.

Remember that it is my job to enforce the law. I do my best to be fair and enforce the law equally and as equitably as possible.

well if the traffic is flowing smoothly but over the legal limit just pick somebody and pull them over create a traffic jam during the middle of rush hour and make 1000 people late for work. The economic impact of 1000 people being ½ hour late for work is worth the $100 fine you collect

Or you can think critically. There are two defenses to laws “the letter of the law” or “the intent of the law”

The letter of the law, would mean that since everybody was travelling above the posted limits they are all criminals and should be punished.

The intent of the law, could be look at from the perspective that it is to keep everyone safe, so if there a danger to resolve? By pulling a person over and creating a traffic jam have I increased or decreased the safety of the public as a whole?

If traffic is able to move faster than posted speeds in a safe manner then it is up to the city, county, or state engineers to place additional choke points into the system to regulate the flow of traffic.