Issue 1 and Issue 2 both passed

[wht_scorpion]

I hope you are wrong as well. If the NHS and PETA gets legislation in, I know it would shut me down. Hopefully, the board will be able to prevent them from getting ANY kind of legislation even close to a ballot. Adding: Do I really want ALL of Ohio to vote on issues that concern my farm if we dont try to stop the NHS with this board? Not hardly. I dont need a shitload of city dwellers who have no clue about farming, voting on legislation proposed by vegitarians.

I'm sure that I've told you before, my operation is mainly for teaching our kids responsibility. Yes, we make some money but the biggest benefit is for the kids sake. And alot of the money that we make goes to our kids. There are alot of operations just like mine. The vast majority of kids at the county fair come from like operations.

sam ok here a storie what ny did. if you had 6 goats in ny they wanted you to become USDA if you wanted to sell at the auction. then they would come bye and have you sign up for nas tags. you had to call them if any of those goat left the land within 2 weeks before you moved them or they would fine you. Nas is a gps system for livestock back in ny they install a little tower in the middle of your land that so they can keep track of what you have.

[chevysoldier]

As a Combat Veteran and current member of the military I voted no on issue one. I didnt go over there for the money. Selfless Service

I didn't either but I believe they deserve it.

[Disclaimer]

I didn't either but I believe they deserve it.

Is this how you would manage your own money too? Just asking... you'd go into (more) debt to donate to a charity/church/cause of choice?

[chevysoldier]

Is this how you would manage your own money too? Just asking... you'd go into (more) debt to donate to a charity/church/cause of choice?

It's because of the vet you can even get on this board, or go ride your bike. You don't think they deserve it? How about we get rid of shit we don't need that we spend money on, like bailing out GM or giving money to acorn. Go up to a vet and tell him, hey thanks for serving, I know you lost your buddies, missed your kid being born, missed her growing up, slept i n a foxhole, cried when you read your letter from your wife sprayed with perfume because you didn't know if you'd see her again, thanks for all that, but Im going to set you up for failure. How'd you sleep last night? Warm and cozy in your bed? Safe? Did you get a hot meal?

This isn't a charity or church. This is your way of life.

[Disclaimer]

It's because of the vet you can even get on this board, or go ride your bike. You don't think they deserve it? How about we get rid of shit we don't need that we spend money on, like bailing out GM or giving money to acorn. Go up to a vet and tell him, hey thanks for serving, I know you lost your buddies, missed your kid being born, missed her growing up, slept i n a foxhole, cried when you read your letter from your wife sprayed with perfume because you didn't know if you'd see her again, thanks for all that, but Im going to set you up for failure. How'd you sleep last night? Warm and cozy in your bed? Safe? Did you get a hot meal?

I'm thankful everyday for the sacrifices the vets have made - so I'm not going to debate that with you.

I think you have a skewed view on what is 'deserved' though. If we had the money, sure - but we don't. And you mention all the other stuff we spend money on (Federal level examples btw, not state ones, but I digress) that you disagree with. Ok, so according to you, instead of fixing the other problems we throw money at unjustly, we should go ahead and throw more money at stuff?

That's like your wife buying a Coach purse that you can't afford and deciding that, well if she doesn't care about putting us in debt, you go out and buy a Porsche - furthering your debt issue. When you should've just talked to your wife and voiced your disapproval so she'd either take it back, or not buy another one.

Especially considering this is a 'bonus', not an amount that people go into the service banking on a check from the Ohio State Government. If you voted for this, then you shouldn't be upset about the golden parachutes the TARP bailout money gave to their execs. They deserved it afterall. Sure, the monetary value was different, but it's the same concept.

So, I understand from the emotional side why people voted 'Yes' for this, we need to show the veterans we honor their duty and sacrifice, but gov't shouldn't be emotional, it should be rational and economical.

This isn't a charity or church. This is your way of life.

And I think you'll find that you might get some pushback on that. For MANY people, charity and church are a way of life.

[chevysoldier]

I'm thankful everyday for the sacrifices the vets have made - so I'm not going to debate that with you.

I think you have a skewed view on what is 'deserved' though. If we had the money, sure - but we don't. And you mention all the other stuff we spend money on (Federal level examples btw, not state ones, but I digress) that you disagree with. Ok, so according to you, instead of fixing the other problems we throw money at unjustly, we should go ahead and throw more money at stuff?

That's like your wife buying a Coach purse that you can't afford and deciding that, well if she doesn't care about putting us in debt, you go out and buy a Porsche - furthering your debt issue. When you should've just talked to your wife and voiced your disapproval so she'd either take it back, or not buy another one.

Especially considering this is a 'bonus', not an amount that people go into the service banking on a check from the Ohio State Government. If you voted for this, then you shouldn't be upset about the golden parachutes the TARP bailout money gave to their execs. They deserved it afterall. Sure, the monetary value was different, but it's the same concept.

So, I understand from the emotional side why people voted 'Yes' for this, we need to show the veterans we honor their duty and sacrifice, but gov't shouldn't be emotional, it should be rational and economical.

I don't need the car, she doesn't need the purse. I personally know many vets that need this money. We don't need railcars, but that hasn't stopped them from trying to push those. If we don't treat our vets better, we are going to severely hurt our military and not have one.

And I think you'll find that you might get some pushback on that. For MANY people, charity and church are a way of life.

You are right, I thought that after I said it, but it is because of the vet they can donate to charity and church.

[Uncle Punk]

gov't shouldn't be emotional, it should be rational and economical.

Good point.

If we don't treat our vets better, we are going to severely hurt our military and not have one.

You need to look back at a little more history. The military has historically been underpaid and yet it still survives. People serve for a variety of reasons not necessarily monetary compensation.

[chevysoldier]

You need to look back at a little more history. The military has historically been underpaid and yet it still survives. People serve for a variety of reasons not necessarily monetary compensation.

Yes, very true. I didn't join for the money. But at that rationale, we'd still have slaves.

[Disclaimer]

I don't need the car, she doesn't need the purse. I personally know many vets that need this money.

I personally know people that need money too, what's your point? If they're really hurting for money, is $1000 really going to even put a dent in their finances? Sure every little bit helps, but you're addressing a symptom, not a root cause. Temporary fixes rarely work.

The vets are just as capable of working as the people I know, and the vets would even get preferential hiring treatment - assuming they're not on disability and getting gov't checks for that already.

We don't need railcars, but that hasn't stopped them from trying to push those.

How do you know we don't need railcars? Who are you to say that?

If we don't treat our vets better, we are going to severely hurt our military and not have one.

I disagree. We've all made different sacrifices in life, as we're all on different paths. The people that serve know what they're getting into and the benefits and drawbacks to becoming involved in the military. What hurts our military is getting involved in conflicts we have NO business spending our time, resources, or manpower on.

You are right, I thought that after I said it, but it is because of the vet they can donate to charity and church.

This is going down a slippery slope, but I'll go there just because I feel like stirring the pot a little today. Let's just go way out there on a complete tangent... Just consider this... (since you just happened to bring it up in your post )

Using your idea that we have what we have today is because of vets. Ok, I'll bite.

But, I'll contend, for argument sake, that the most meaningful conflict was the Revolutionary War, but even up to WWII was the last meaningful conflict to our society. Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq... those wars have had little to no effect on our American society (aside from using our resources and manpower and causing families grief from having to bury their soldiers) - those wars have not drastically changed the way we've lived like the Rev War, Civil War, WWI, and WWII.

Now, I don't know any vets alive from the Rev, Civil, or WWI - WWII may still have some vets left. But, the current vets have had little/nothing to do with how their service has directly affected our current living situation. They're not protecting our freedom and rights in OUR country, they're indoctrinating other countries to that mindset. Rightfully or wrongfully.

So (and here's where I'm going to stir the pot), lets compare this to the civil rights movement. There are blacks still upset about slavery and are due Reparations, there are whites that say it's over, they didn't own any slaves personally, get over it. AND all the opinions in between.

My questions becomes, should we treat blacks like veterans?

Both groups have made great sacrifices in the past. Blacks by helping America gain a global economic stronghold through their slave labor, Veterans by giving (eventually) freedom to us as a nation.

But, now in the present, blacks and vets have taken on completely different roles in society, yet we still treat vets, as vets with the same respect, and even given them additional benefits beyond what any historical vet received.

Anyone want to provide their thoughts?? Since I've already taken this as far-out on a tangent as I did. I'm not arguing a point either way on the blacks / vets thing, I'm just wildly throwing it out there as a discussion point if anyone want to take it on.

Edited November 5, 2009 by JRMMiii

[SAMBUSA]

sam ok here a storie what ny did. if you had 6 goats in ny they wanted you to become USDA if you wanted to sell at the auction. then they would come bye and have you sign up for nas tags. you had to call them if any of those goat left the land within 2 weeks before you moved them or they would fine you. Nas is a gps system for livestock back in ny they install a little tower in the middle of your land that so they can keep track of what you have.

In OH, you already have to do this minus the GPS part. Even if it's only 1 goat. You cannot sell a goat without them being USDA approved.