Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I know IRAN's got weapons... I know Iraq's got weapons... well, we should know, we gave/sold them to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 He's not an American citizen, but as it's been stated... if we treat him worse, then we're no better than "them". What kind of hypocritical message does that send? Turn the other cheek, right? Jesus says so.I didnt realize that putting him in a military tribunal was "treating him worse." And if he isnt an American citizen and you admit that, hard not to, how is it that he can possibly be tried under the Constitution?The best way to fight terrorism (as in, causing terror and fear) is to not let it cause terror and fear within a country. Yet, here we are over 8 years later, and still no Bin Laden, no end or resolution in sight, and arguing with each other about it on the internet. How productive.So how do we not let Americans have fear and feel terror if we get attacked over and over? They are feeling MUCH less fear and terror right now than they would with out action on our part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerik Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 And have you seen the amount of underground facilities are in Iraq? TONS! God only knows if there is a big group of WMD's in one of thoseI'm fairly certain that if Saddam had had anything serious, he'd have tried to use it on us (or on his own people while blaming it on us) before we captured him. Who goes and hides in a hole in the floor when they've got WMD's they could use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I know IRAN's got weapons... I know Iraq's got weapons... well, we should know, we gave/sold them to them.Well then, there you go. They do have them they just werent found. There goes that portion of the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm fairly certain that if Saddam had had anything serious, he'd have tried to use it on us (or on his own people while blaming it on us) before we captured him. Who goes and hides in a hole in the floor when they've got WMD's they could use?He was a VERY smart person and I am sure he knew that wouldnt work out as well as you just made it sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I didnt know we invaded Iraq before Afghanistan. I could have sword we invaded Afghanistan first. Ill go look back at the 2001 history book.Well, technically... they were both invaded about the same time (I suppose Afghanistan was technically first)... but when you put 15,000 troops in Afghanistan compared to 130,000 in Iraq... it's pretty clear where the focus was.http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40682.pdfhttp://www.nationalpriorities.org/2009/09/02/quick-facts-US-military-operations-Afghanistan <--- quick fact sheet, too bad I can't find the same one on Iraq, you gotta read the big report above for that info. Page 14 has a great table on Afghan vs. Iraq troop deployment. Edited November 16, 2009 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 So how do we not let Americans have fear and feel terror if we get attacked over and over? They are feeling MUCH less fear and terror right now than they would with out action on our part.I just thought the argument was "Nothing's happened since 9/11" - so has nothing happened or are we getting attacked over and over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well, technically... they were both invaded about the same time... but when you put 5,200 troops in Afghanistan compared to 130,000 in Iraq... it's pretty clear where the focus was.http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40682.pdfhttp://www.nationalpriorities.org/2009/09/02/quick-facts-US-military-operations-Afghanistan <--- quick fact sheet, too bad I can't find the same one on Iraq, you gotta read the big report above for that info.Here you go... take a look at page 9... We were in Afghanistan before Iraq so... "technically" nothing. We were in Afghanistan in 2001.... went into Iraq in 2003...Yes, the focus was where the biggest resistance at the moment was. Now the biggest resistance is in Afghanistan because of the AWESOME job the troops did in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I just thought the argument was "Nothing's happened since 9/11" - so has nothing happened or are we getting attacked over and over?Well "technically" we are attacked a lot but they are foiled most of the time. What I was trying to say was that if we DID NOT go over there we WOULD HAVE continued to get attacked. How would you stop the fear and terror then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Well, technically... they were both invaded about the same time (I suppose Afghanistan was technically first)... but when you put 15,000 troops in Afghanistan compared to 130,000 in Iraq... it's pretty clear where the focus was.oops, we're ignoring the Afghanistan Northern Alliance, which is 56% of the population. Fighting with us then (edit: against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda), and still is. A few thousand special forces to spot for aircraft, and hunt down Bin Laden. Iraq was divisions of armor to fight divisions of armor. Both were appropriate use of forces. Edited November 16, 2009 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You'll see I edited my post to reflect the information in the report.Do you have evidence of these foiled attacks? Do you have evidence we would have continued to be attacked?Like I said, I have a mailbox that keeps out bears. It's foiled many a bear attacks, just from my experience with it - I just have no proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) oops, we're ignoring the Afghanistan Northern Alliance, which is 56% of the population. Fighting with us then, and still is. A few thousand special forces to spot for aircraft, and hunt down Bin Laden. Iraq was divisions of armor to fight divisions of armor. Both were appropriate use of forces.You need to post where you're reading this stuff, so I can read it too. There's some mention of the ANA in that report I posted... but it's not an apples to apples if you're comparing ALL troops to ground troops. Edited November 16, 2009 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You'll see I edited my post to reflect the information in the report.Do you have evidence of these foiled attacks? Do you have evidence we would have continued to be attacked?Like I said, I have a mailbox that keeps out bears. It's foiled many a bear attacks, just from my experience with it - I just have no proof.Here is a small list for you...http://wcbstv.com/local/Terrorism.New.York.2.244858.htmlSARCASM! lolDo you have evidence we would not have been attacked? Usually when you DO NOTHING to a bully, he seems to think he can continue to do it. Just from what I have seen in life issues and history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Here is a small list for you...http://wcbstv.com/local/Terrorism.New.York.2.244858.htmlThat is quite the interesting list. But what does it have to do with the war overseas?... that list looks, predominately, to be terrorists on our own soil.That's more of a list to argue the merits of the Patriot Act than Operation Enduring Freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 That is quite the interesting list. But what does it have to do with the war overseas?... that list looks, predominately, to be terrorists on our own soil.That's more of a list to argue the merits of the Patriot Act than Operation Enduring Freedom.You asked for a list of foiled attacks in the US... i gave it to you. Still not happy. Who would have thought. Yes, they were over here. I have a TON of things that we stopped, hell that I stopped, over there. Why would you want that list? Youre making no sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You asked for a list of foiled attacks in the US... i gave it to you. Still not happy. Who would have thought. Yes, they were over here. I have a TON of things that we stopped, hell that I stopped, over there. Why would you want that list? Youre making no sense...Dude, yes, you gave me a list, but the list isn't pertinent to our discussion on why we need troops overseas to fight terror. All those foiled plots were on our soil (or allies soil).I'm fully aware of your stance, I'm just asking for substance to back it up. The list you gave me wasn't applicable for the reason I stated. So, anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dude, yes, you gave me a list, but the list isn't pertinent to our discussion on why we need troops overseas to fight terror. All those foiled plots were on our soil (or allies soil).I'm fully aware of your stance, I'm just asking for substance to back it up. The list you gave me wasn't applicable for the reason I stated. So, anything else?We are getting rid of more and more terrorists... The more we get rid of over there, the less come over here and do the crap we are foiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I disagree. If they want it bad enough, it'll happen regardless of any safeguards or military ops we put in place because humans are flawed - so I guess I'd rather strength us internally rather than send our boys and girls overseas. Our dollars go a lot farther here than they do over there. Not to mention putting our soldiers in harms way.If they want to bring the fight to us, then bring it, but otherwise they can keep their sandbox. But, I think it's about more than just terrorists - there's ulterior motives for being over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alab32 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I disagree. If they want it bad enough, it'll happen regardless of any safeguards or military ops we put in place - so I guess I'd rather strength us internally rather than send our boys and girls overseas. Our dollars go a lot farther here than they do over there. Not to mention putting our soldiers in harms way.If they want to bring the fight to us, then bring it, but otherwise they can keep their sandbox. But, I think it's about more than just terrorists - there's ulterior motives for being over there.You say that now until the streets you live on are being over ran. We are killing and capturing ALL KINDS of terrorists over there which means they will NOT be coming over here. Sitting idly is not the answer. You have to be proactive. As for protecting from the inside, i think that list showed that we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InyaAzz Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Or, how bout IRAN! They just happen to be neighboring countries, have some pretty good ties, help each other out under the table. But hey, this is all just stuff im making up so its cool.The US created the situation with Iran/Iraq. Before we invaded, Iran and Iraq were sworn enemies. Sadaam was actually keeping Iran in check, and really the best thing we had going. Removing Sadaam shifted the balance of power in that region.True story. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InyaAzz Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 We are getting rid of more and more terrorists... The more we get rid of over there, the less come over here and do the crap we are foiling.You're not getting rid of more and more terrorists so they won't come over here. You're killing 10 terrorists, and creating 50 more. Do you think the families of those killed are not going to hate the people responsible for killing their family members? That's where the war on terror is flawed. You can't effectively suppress fanatical beliefs with violence. It ends up breeding more hate. Do you really think, for the most part, people like seeing foreign troops on their own soil? How would you feel if the situation was reversed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm pretty sure the problems with Iran and any other country in the Middle East goes back to the two Persian Empires. Where Persia (Iran) over-ran and destroyed everything in the Middle East. As said, they have long memories.The USA is the only country that I can think of that was invited by request to intercede in the European colonization of the Middle East. (Long time ago.) Mostly because the USA didn't have any colonies there. And we didn't make any friends with the European countries for any of the efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You say that now until the streets you live on are being over ran. We are killing and capturing ALL KINDS of terrorists over there which means they will NOT be coming over here. Sitting idly is not the answer. You have to be proactive. As for protecting from the inside, i think that list showed that we are.This isn't necessarily true. They are killing and capturing those they are claim are terrorists or related to terrorists. Iraq had next to no terrorist ties before we went in there. Afghanistan and the Taliban didn't attack us either. Terrorists are hiding in and/or are from places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.This is definitely one of those cases where we've made as many enemies as friends. I hear more stories of they hate us than I do they love us from people coming back from there (Iraq or Afghanistan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You'll see I edited my post to reflect the information in the report.Do you have evidence of these foiled attacks? Do you have evidence we would have continued to be attacked? .http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335500,00.htmlSome of those are CONUS, some OCONUS. And I'm sure there are more that have not been released do to sucurity reasons.You're not getting rid of more and more terrorists so they won't come over here. You're killing 10 terrorists, and creating 50 more. Do you think the families of those killed are not going to hate the people responsible for killing their family members? That's where the war on terror is flawed. You can't effectively suppress fanatical beliefs with violence. It ends up breeding more hate. Do you really think, for the most part, people like seeing foreign troops on their own soil? How would you feel if the situation was reversed? Actually a lot of the people from there do like us. They are just scared to speak out. I saw them come up to us and thanks us for what we have done. When they voted for the first time, they had a higher % then we do for our presidential elections. They cared about the right to have a choice. But you don't hear of all the good becuase of bias media like CNN that won't report it.This isn't necessarily true. They are killing and capturing those they are claim are terrorists or related to terrorists. Iraq had next to no terrorist ties before we went in there. Afghanistan and the Taliban didn't attack us either. Terrorists are hiding in and/or are from places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.This is definitely one of those cases where we've made as many enemies as friends. I hear more stories of they hate us than I do they love us from people coming back from there (Iraq or Afghanistan).See above comment and please provide resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 See above comment and please provide resources.Did you really just comment against my comment also using nothing but anecdotal evidence then saying "please provide resources" when you didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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