Likwid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 But whats his face wasnt suspected, he admitted to the 9/11 attacksOk, let me revise... I am, without a doubt, FOR torture and punishment for CONVICTED criminals... for punishment AND/OR to get more information.But I am never, nor will I ever, be in favor of any form of torture for SUSPECTED criminals. Due process is a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Ok, let me revise... I am, without a doubt, FOR torture and punishment for CONVICTED criminals... for punishment AND/OR to get more information.But I am never, nor will I ever, be in favor of any form of torture for SUSPECTED criminals. Due process is a right.Due process is a right awarded by our laws for US citizens, not prisoners of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Ok, let me revise... I am, without a doubt, FOR torture and punishment for CONVICTED criminals... for punishment AND/OR to get more information.But I am never, nor will I ever, be in favor of any form of torture for SUSPECTED criminals. Due process is a right.So I guess Hitler or Joseph Mengele were SUSPECTED criminals huh? They were never put on trial. Really dude, are you for real or just fucking around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 So I guess Hitler or Joseph Mengele were SUSPECTED criminals huh? They were never put on trial. Really dude, are you for real or just fucking around?Hey, who are you to use logic around here. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Yeah I'm new to that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsuMj Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 wasn't there a guy at guantanamo that they figured out was completely innocent? Things like that make me think even psychological torture of the sorts isn't right...Also, there was a story on US news about how contractors were caught and hung to death in a city square a while ago.... "contractors" on the other side of the story, it was well known within that country that those "contractors" were actually people who were out to kill their leader. I'm not saying who was right and who was wrong, just really that there's two sides to every story... *this was told to me by a guy who was in said country and I'm completely lacking in details.... * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 wasn't there a guy at guantanamo that they figured out was completely innocent? Things like that make me think even psychological torture of the sorts isn't right...Also, there was a story on US news about how contractors were caught and hung to death in a city square a while ago.... "contractors" on the other side of the story, it was well known within that country that those "contractors" were actually people who were out to kill their leader. I'm not saying who was right and who was wrong, just really that there's two sides to every story... So, based on one peron being innocent, we should all treat them as innocent? Sorry but life isnt fair, and when it comes to the safety of our country, well shit happens. And before someone says "Well what if it was you?" Well I'm gonna need a really good lawyer and a prayer. But do you know the reasons why he was in Gitmo? They didn't arrest him for the fun of it, something gave them reasoning to jail him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 If you're saying that we should only torture Non-citizens then I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagr Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 wasn't there a guy at guantanamo that they figured out was completely innocent? Things like that make me think even psychological torture of the sorts isn't right...Also, there was a story on US news about how contractors were caught and hung to death in a city square a while ago.... "contractors" on the other side of the story, it was well known within that country that those "contractors" were actually people who were out to kill their leader. I'm not saying who was right and who was wrong, just really that there's two sides to every story... *this was told to me by a guy who was in said country and I'm completely lacking in details.... *Kitchen. Get in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 If you're saying that we should only torture Non-citizens then I'm good.Kitchen. Get in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsuMj Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 So, based on one peron being innocent, we should all treat them as innocent? Sorry but life isnt fair, and when it comes to the safety of our country, well shit happens. And before someone says "Well what if it was you?" Well I'm gonna need a really good lawyer and a prayer. But do you know the reasons why he was in Gitmo? They didn't arrest him for the fun of it, something gave them reasoning to jail him.nah, that's not what i'm saying... I'm saying that if they're having a hard time getting it right, they should be more careful. And perhaps if psychological is going to be used, they should be pretty damn certain that its not an innocent person its being used on. Kitchen. Get in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 nah, that's not what i'm saying... I'm saying that if they're having a hard time getting it right, they should be more careful. And perhaps if psychological is going to be used, they should be pretty damn certain that its not an innocent person its being used on. ok one out of hundreds, thousands? Phycological is better than physical, esp if, and that a BIG if, they are innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 I am against waterboarding purely because it ISN'T torture.I'm not against it' date=' I don't think its torture, and I don't have an issue with torture.[/font']Ok, let me revise... I am, without a doubt, FOR torture and punishment for CONVICTED criminals... for punishment AND/OR to get more information.But I am never, nor will I ever, be in favor of any form of torture for SUSPECTED criminals. Due process is a right.Things like due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc, etc have a place in civilian courts. Using them as a way to criticize how a military operation is conducted is just naive. The military should not be a reflection of the society that it serves. Do not expect to impose rules that would limit actions unless you are willing to accept defeat. As a matter of conducting business people die in wars, this would not be accepted in society, where do you start to draw the line that makes war equal to civilian life? Criminals are not equal to enemies and should not be treated equally. Due process is not a luxury you have when conducting a war. Are you suggesting we quit using deadly force in war time; instead maybe we should just capture everyone we can and hold civilian trials charging them with disturbing the peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSVDon Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Things like due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc, etc have a place in civilian courts. Using them as a way to criticize how a military operation is conducted is just naive. The military should not be a reflection of the society that it serves. Do not expect to impose rules that would limit actions unless you are willing to accept defeat. As a matter of conducting business people die in wars, this would not be accepted in society, where do you start to draw the line that makes war equal to civilian life? Criminals are not equal to enemies and should not be treated equally. Due process is not a luxury you have when conducting a war. Are you suggesting we quit using deadly force in war time; instead maybe we should just capture everyone we can and hold civilian trials charging them with disturbing the peace.This ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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