justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 why aren't churches non-profit? they don't profit soooo..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Gixxie, I'm dying to see this monstrosity of a church... you gotta post pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I Just think its unfair that they dont work for their money and they dont get taxed on the free money they get. And my point exactly if i dont give money to the govt i go to jail. Churches should have to pay to. Churches will have no more power if they are taxed,because it still all comes down to a vote. And if they have even less money they cant buy off people to get their issues past. This has nothing to do with god or my beliefs,but more to do with fairness. I would love to build a shop and be tax free. Bikes are my god and bikes have many worshipers. The govt shouldnt be able to not tax god churches but tax my bike church. We would do all our services for donations and we could build a giant worship track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KruelHouse Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Don't tax churches.As stated before, church contributions are donations, and donations shouldn't be taxed. That said, then you'd have to look at taxing the Toys for Tots drive (just an example) as well. Hell, each year, my GF and I adopt a family. So would you expect a family (who's probably already struggling) to tally up the cash value of the toys, clothing, food, etc. and pay taxes on those items? Another thing to consider is that most churches do TONS of community service projects to further benefit the local society. Food drives, habitat for humanity, transporting the elderly and sick to their Dr. appointments and to get their medication. Not to mention tutoring services, and some even host after school programs (a big help now that many rec. centers were closed down due to the declining budget.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Gixxie, I'm dying to see this monstrosity of a church... you gotta post pictures.I have been looking to use my new camera anyway lol. I will go take some. Hopefully i dont get arrested by our tax payed police lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Don't tax churches.As stated before, church contributions are donations, and donations shouldn't be taxed. That said, then you'd have to look at taxing the Toys for Tots drive (just an example) as well. Hell, each year, my GF and I adopt a family. So would you expect a family (who's probably already struggling) to tally up the cash value of the toys, clothing, food, etc. and pay taxes on those items? Another thing to consider is that most churches do TONS of community service projects to further benefit the local society. Food drives, habitat for humanity, transporting the elderly and sick to their Dr. appointments and to get their medication. Not to mention tutoring services, and some even host after school programs (a big help now that many rec. centers were closed down due to the declining budget.).But these churches are not just doing these things with no message. They use the money to help them further grow and gain more members. There are plenty of companies that do the same thing and they are using their money that has been taxed. Toys for tots can be taxed,but they should be able to write off all the taxes because they gained nothing from their venture. Churches gain land/bldgs/cars/planes/entire companies to print their stuff. When toys for tots is over all you have is allot of happy kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Going back to the IP point of "taxation with representation"How is the church not being represented? Assuming everyone of their constituents has the power to vote... the taxes that would fall upon the church are the same that would fall upon a small business. The small business has as much representation as a church does as far as the individuals that frequent the business or church - that's where the vote is.Unless you're suggesting that everyone that goes to church isn't being fairly represented?Would any of you give up your right of representation if you weren't taxed at an individual level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KruelHouse Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I Just think its unfair that they dont work for their money and they dont get taxed on the free money they get. And my point exactly if i dont give money to the govt i go to jail. Churches should have to pay to. Churches will have no more power if they are taxed,because it still all comes down to a vote. And if they have even less money they cant buy off people to get their issues past. This has nothing to do with god or my beliefs,but more to do with fairness. I would love to build a shop and be tax free. Bikes are my god and bikes have many worshipers. The govt shouldnt be able to not tax god churches but tax my bike church. We would do all our services for donations and we could build a giant worship track.I think that we're looking at the "church" as a person, and not a building/institution. The vast majorith of the money being donated to the church comes from its paritioners. These people work, get paid, pay taxes, and donate some portion of their NET income to the church. The only individuals (pastor/preist/etc.) who actually receives monetary compensation from the church, must pay taxes on this income. So the church (it's paritioners) does work for it's money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I Just think its unfair that they dont work for their money and they dont get taxed on the free money they get. And my point exactly if i dont give money to the govt i go to jail. Churches should have to pay to. Churches will have no more power if they are taxed,because it still all comes down to a vote. And if they have even less money they cant buy off people to get their issues past. This has nothing to do with god or my beliefs,but more to do with fairness. I would love to build a shop and be tax free. Bikes are my god and bikes have many worshipers. The govt shouldnt be able to not tax god churches but tax my bike church. We would do all our services for donations and we could build a giant worship track.you could start a non profit motorcycle repair shop to help less fortunate people and then your business wouldn't be taxed in the same way that a church isn't taxed, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 If you don't believe the people who are employed by the church don't pay taxes then there isn't any help for you. They are taxed just the same as you or me. Furthermore' date=' if you don't think a church works for the donations it gets you are more biased than I think. Churches don't "buy people off"... What issues are the church getting passed? Abortion? Gambling? Tell me. Again, I support the idea that you should not be taxed on your labor. I am with you, but forcing someone else to do it because you have to is selfish. Which makes your argument ironic. (not Alanis Morisette ironic.. the real ironic)[/quote']Everyone in the us should have to be =. Church or no church if some are taxed all should be taxed. As for church sticking their stupid noses into the gambleing and abortion thing they can do waht they want or feel is right,but they need to pay taxes on their property like the rest of us. They have the only "FREE"land in this country and in no way is that fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 you could start a non profit motorcycle repair shop to help less fortunate people and then your business wouldn't be taxed in the same way that a church isn't taxed, no?But i bet i would still have to pay property tax correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 It goes back to my quote about churches wanting more say in government if they are taxed. I'm not sure it would happen' date=' but I'm fairly certain I can say Gixxie would not approve of them being represented.. even if they are taxed. He's seems a bit biased regarding his views of church/religion.[/quote']I'm not sure they don't already have as much say as any other non-profit or business. That's why the statement confuses me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KruelHouse Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 But these churches are not just doing these things with no message. They use the money to help them further grow and gain more members. There are plenty of companies that do the same thing and they are using their money that has been taxed. Toys for tots can be taxed,but they should be able to write off all the taxes because they gained nothing from their venture. Churches gain land/bldgs/cars/planes/entire companies to print their stuff. When toys for tots is over all you have is allot of happy kids.That's true among some churches. I've never been a member of, or even attended a service in one of those mega-churches. Truth be told, I've never been to church in OH, so the only time that I attend is when I'm back home with my family. That said, some organizations do perpetuate a message with their giving, and others only perpetuate the message of giving. And that's how it should be. Charity for charity's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Like i said i have no idea how this works. Its just is not cool that they can build these super fancy places. IMO there are way way to many churches anyway so if the little churches couldnt afford to keep running then so be it. Churches shouldnt be any diff than any othr company as in if they cant make the money they need they shut the doors. I know its a touchy subject,but i had to see what my fellow comunity though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironbuttwannabe Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I would love to build a shop and be tax free. Bikes are my god and bikes have many worshipers. The govt shouldnt be able to not tax god churches but tax my bike church. We would do all our services for donations and we could build a giant worship track.Quite possible to do. You have to get a lot more publicity than typing on a forum, and you will need a ton of money for lawyers. Stanley Tam from Lima was able to turn his company, US Plastic Corp. into a God ran business. The book is called "God Owns My Business" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) But i bet i would still have to pay property tax correct?i dont think so (though I'll admit I didn't read all of that )http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5709.12 Edited December 9, 2009 by justin0469 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 +1. Start taxing churches and see how much of this community service gets haulted. Sure' date=' some of the mega churches might "get what's coming to them", but the little churches would suffer the most. Then, once again, liberalism has created the exact opposite of its intentions. You wanted to punish the big church and the little church takes it up the steeple.[/quote']I'm not sure the impact would be as large as people think. They do provide services, but the impact against organizations like Habitat for Humanity as someone else brought up would be non-existent since they act as independent charities outside of a specific church. As a matter of fact I know plenty of people of many different backgrounds that have supported Habitat for Humanity (myself included) even though they are a "christian organization." This wouldn't stop if churches were suddenly taxed. It's not a church.I've always though of churches as liberal organizations actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likwid Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I don't know what to say to that. I'm an atheist and I don't believe there are "way way too many churches anyway.."GET THE TORCHES!!!!lol, I think there are WAY too many denominations and churches.... so many places it's a 4 corner street and there is 4 churches.... retarded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 They are restricted on what they are allowed to discuss if they want to keep their tax exemption. Besides' date=' it was a character assumption of Gixxie. [/quote']They are supposed to be. I've been to plenty of churches when asked to go by friends (and I have nothing better to do) and there are many that discuss beyond what they are allowed. Even during the last election there was plenty of this going on and in the news with no loss of status to most if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I'm sure there's alot of people that think it would be ridiculous for a gigantic nonprofit motorcycle shop to be built. but if it came about because people donated alot of money to it, it's worth it to someone and they donated the money to make it happen and that's the way it is. apparently there's enough people that want it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 That's true among some churches. I've never been a member of, or even attended a service in one of those mega-churches. Truth be told, I've never been to church in OH, so the only time that I attend is when I'm back home with my family. That said, some organizations do perpetuate a message with their giving, and others only perpetuate the message of giving. And that's how it should be. Charity for charity's sake.Agreed. The way it should be done is just giving, building a relationship with people. Don't preach to them, just let them know where you're from. Build that relationship, and eventually they will start asking about the church. If it's something they want to be a part of, they will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Very liberal.. that's why I hate them. No' date=' they do good work for our communities. When was the last time anyone in this discussion stepped foot into a church funded homeless shelter? I was just at our local one this week with toys and food. It's crazy in there. I could barely move there were so many people. The less the church is taxed the more good they can do. I believe that to be true with individuals, as well. I don't believe we should be taxed on what we earn.[/quote']Churches can do good things for sure. But they can do it all while being taxed like the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusion Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Very liberal.. that's why I hate them. No' date=' they do good work for our communities. When was the last time anyone in this discussion stepped foot into a church funded homeless shelter? I was just at our local one this week with toys and food. It's crazy in there. I could barely move there were so many people. The less the church is taxed the more good they can do. I believe that to be true with individuals, as well. I don't believe we should be taxed on what we earn.[/quote']'tis the season. Clean out the closets for more crap during the holidays time...I've been to more than a few over the years (San Antonio, San Fran, Oakland, Sacramento, Dayton...) I've had a decent sized group of friends at points that like to go and help out shelters and soup kitchens. During a large part of the year many I've been to are begging for help and donations because there's not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin0469 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Churches can do good things for sure. But they can do it all while being taxed like the rest of us.but the rest of the nonprofits aren't taxed. why should churches be the exception? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 because they have money left over to build megga churches. Other non profits use all the money they get donated for the said cause.* i am guessing at that as i dont have all their paperwork and tax forms in front of me lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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