Mmi?

[GSXRpilot]

so i have been putting a lot of thought into attending motorcycle mechanics institute, and im just wondering if theres anyone out there who has attended and could give me some input. Phoenix campus to be exact. Thanks.

[MidgetTodd]

eviltwin is there right now, send him a PM

[dustinsn3485]

I'll find my write up later. I went there. Took Honda and BMW tech classes.

eviltwin doesn't know squat yet, he's still in the first 6 weeks of hell.

[dustinsn3485]

Here ya go, that was easier to find than I thought...

I went to the MMI in Phoenix, AZ. I'm not sure what the current rate to go to school there is, however I paid roughly 20K just in tuition. The first 6 months are spent on general mechanics with the first 6 weeks of that being classroom, pen, paper, whiteboard, lecture. A lot can be learned if you ask questions and thoroughly apply yourself. The school will give you what you ask of it. If you walk in and just want to get the certs and leave, you will get that and leave with not much more knowledge than when you began. If you ask a lot of questions and apply yourself you are going to get your certs and be a much more knowledgeable and informed mechanic.

After the first 6 weeks there is a lot of hands on/generic training. Everything from suspension rebuilding to valve jobs to splitting the cases and putting it back together, then bolting into a chassis and running it. You have the opportunity to spend 3 weeks in a "tuning" class doing dyno runs and running a flow-jet.

After the first 6 months you choose what manufacturers you'd like to "specialize" in. I chose Honda and BMW. Honda because they are the most reliable and IMO the best manufacturer of the imports. Also, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Honda really are essentially built the same. If you can fix one you can fix them all. BMW because it allows you to be a more valuable mechanic. BMW takes their dealerships pretty seriously, they require a certain number of mechanics in each shop, all must have a certain degree of education (they will send you for more training on their tab), etc. Just be sure you like electronics if you work on BMW, those bikes are computers on wheels. And of course you can choose to do 24 weeks of Harley if you'd be so inclined.

Alright, my general thoughts on the school. I learned a lot, I didn't learn as much as I wanted. The curriculum is pretty basic since they've only got 3 weeks in each specific subject. I would have liked to learn a lot more about suspension tuning for example. They taught what rebound/compression was, but we never had the opportunity to see what the effects are of turning the adjusters. There was a class on boring/honing cylinders, it was very interesting, but you're not going to bore a cylinder at a dealership...They could have shown us and then we spend a day on it, but not 3 weeks.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of living either. I had a studio apt 2 miles from the school and I paid $525/mo for rent. Plus the cost of groceries, dr, utilities, etc... Utilities in the winter aren't too bad, in the summer when it's 115-125 degrees it gets a bit more expensive. I had trouble finding a job when I first got there. Craigslist is a huge help in that city for everything from furniture to things to do to finding a job. Another note is theft, my truck was stolen from my gated apt complex around 7:15am in the middle of July. Theft is a second job for many people down there, the school stresses locking your stuff up and alarming it and whatever else you have to do, because theft is so rampant. I bought a Scorpio alarm for my bike, I chained my bike to an I-beam and parked next to the other bikes in the complex and still 3 times did my alarm go off and I see a mexican running from my bike. I apologize for my judgment of mexicans, but the illegal population in Phoenix is unreal and is a major cause of a lot of the theft.

Just a rough estimate for my 13 months there was in the ballpark of $32-35K. I left with a certificate for Honda and BMW. I had a job here in Ohio 6 weeks after my arrival home and they had absolutely no issue with MMI students. Actually I talked to 4-6 shops when I was looking and none mentioned anything about not hiring MMI students. All were very open to hiring me. At the shop I finally chose to work for, they said they've had a lot of good and a lot of bad students. The bad students didn't last a week. I stayed 6 months and left on my own accord because there's not enough money to be made. I was getting paid 9.50 plus commission. My typical bring home pay for 2 weeks of work (80 hours) was about $650.00. I did have health insurance (single) through the dealership, but that was the only deduction other than taxes.

So finally in conclusion, would I do it again knowing what I do now...No. I am grateful for the amount of knowledge I have learned, I just can't make a living off of what a shop is willing to pay. If you've got a good chunk of extra money laying around, it's one of the best investments in motorcycle knowledge I could have made, but not for a career. I do certainly hope it helps supplement my income from my day job though, now that I have a business being ran from my garage.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

[35RFTW]

Like Dustin Said, you will only get out of it what you put in to it. We have had our share of MMI grads and to be honest, if they didn't have much knowledge before they went, it doesn't seem like they soaked up much more. The ones that were working on bikes prior to going I think learn more than those who do not because they know what questions to ask. Good luck with the school, I would recommend the Florida location for better living condition and weather.

[GSXRpilot]

thanks for all the input guys. dustin, what are the chances, if any, that you stay out there and find a job on the west coast? or are the jobs few and far between out there like they are here?

[dustinsn3485]

I was out there in 2006. I worked at a shop for 6 months in Columbus in 2007 and I haven't worked a shop since. In PHX especially, don't even think about it. So many students have the same idea, shops can pay min wage and get away with it. My personal opinion, you couldn't pay me enough to work in CA.

I don't know the market well, but I'm sure companies are struggling nationally. I doubt you'll do much better on the west coast than you would here.

[GSXRpilot]

i appreciate you taking time in helping me out man. thanks.

[GSXRpilot]

dustin, why did you only work for 6 mos. in a shop? just not making enough or?? whats your regular day job? if you dont mind me asking...

[dustinsn3485]

dustin, why did you only work for 6 mos. in a shop? just not making enough or?? whats your regular day job? if you dont mind me asking...

Well...I live north of Dayton and was working at HNW. So distance was one reason. Second, don't expect to make much more than about $9-10 on the hour for the first couple years. You get paid commission as well, but you can't be proficient every week and meet or beat flat rate so commission doesn't amount to a whole lot. IIRC I was bringing home about $625 every two weeks. My only deduction was single health coverage.

I work in warehousing now as a material controller. It pays over $2 more on the hour and I have no schooling, they pay for school if I decide to take it. All the benefits are much better too. I do have a shop set up at my house though, working on bikes. So I make a little money on the side here and there.

Working at a MC dealership isn't going to make you rich, you'll learn a lot and you'll make money, you'll probably break even at the end of the month. You won't have a lot of extra though. It's tough to get into the field and work for someone else. It's too difficult to make a secure living.

The school is good and you'll make of it what you put in it. If you've got extra cash and really want to learn about bikes then go for it. If you want to make a career of it, plan to struggle for awhile. When you get good it could be lucrative. The guys that I worked with that had been at the shop many years both worked out of their garage as well and they'd been in the business for at least 20 years each. If you just wanna learn about bikes, go buy a cheap bike and a service manual, find some friends that know a little and tear one down. Learn by practice.

Edited January 29, 2010 by dustinsn3485

[redkow97]

My company has an accounting office based in Phoenix. One of our employees' husband TEACHES at mmi in Phoenix.

I can probably get you his contact info if you want. He previously taught at one of the other MMI campuses (FL maybe?) and moved to Phoenix because it was better.

I'm almost certain he's in the HD field though. I asked his wife if there were any tracks in Phoenix, and she said, "like drag strips?" ...no, like a road course. "oh, you mean an oval?" ...no, left AND right turns. like a mountain road. "oh, we usually just go cruising."

[John]

I'm almost certain he's in the HD field though. I asked his wife if there were any tracks in Phoenix, and she said, "like drag strips?" ...no, like a road course. "oh, you mean an oval?" ...no, left AND right turns. like a mountain road. "oh, we usually just go cruising."

there sure is. phoenix international raceway.

[EvilTwin]

Thank you Justin for your very professional and informed judgment that I don't know squat. I have been attending MMI since Oct 12th of 09, so slightly more than six weeks.

[ReconRat]

Even I thought about going to the MMI down in Florida. Yes, it's been there that long, as in back-in-the-day. Too late, I had already taught myself most of it, with plenty of mistakes. And was already working at a Honda shop. Buy a cheap motorcycle, completely dismantle it to see how it works, and put it back together again, multiple times, till it's right. I went to school for engineering instead, guessing that would give me the best background for motorcycles (and aviation). So now it's 3 engineering degrees and one degree in aviation. It never ends. Figure out something that gives you a better paying job, and you'll be able to buy lots of motorcycles.

[ohdaho]

Even I thought about going to the MMI down in Florida. Yes, it's been there that long, as in back-in-the-day. Too late, I had already taught myself most of it, with plenty of mistakes. And was already working at a Honda shop. Buy a cheap motorcycle, completely dismantle it to see how it works, and put it back together again, multiple times, till it's right. I went to school for engineering instead, guessing that would give me the best background for motorcycles (and aviation). So now it's 3 engineering degrees and one degree in aviation. It never ends. Figure out something that gives you a better paying job, and you'll be able to buy lots of motorcycles.

Holy shit man 3 engineering degrees? Self-loathing much?

[ReconRat]

Holy shit man 3 engineering degrees? Self-loathing much?

Here's a vision of the future. And it was already true for me. Technology changed, making most of what I learned in engineering school obsolete. There were no computers (other than mainframes) when I went through school. Computers changed everything, and I had to go back to school, and basically take the same classes again. And a few totally new ones for totally new technology.

Now the kicker, technology advances at a much more rapid pace than it did before. (Thanks to... computers.) Essentially doubling knowledge every few years. More importantly, it makes everything you know and learned, obsolete in about two years. Yes, that means a person cannot even get out of a four year school before half of the knowledge has expired.

So good luck with learning just one vocation and learning it just once.

And it's basically 4 engineering degrees, Industrial Design, Mechanical Design, Computer Electronics, and Aviation Maintenance (good for aviation engineers to have). This doesn't include numerous certificates, one of which took almost three years to get, taking one part-time class at a time. And an incomplete Master's in Education. I didn't like it.

But most jobs will pay for continued education, so it's good to take night classes forever.

Yes, I'm really tired of taking classes. Most of which I'm now more qualified to teach rather than take.

Edited February 28, 2010 by ReconRat
typo... durrr

[ohdaho]

Here's a vision of the future. And it was already true for me. Technology changed, making most of what I learned in engineering school obsolete. There were no computers (other than mainframes) when I went through school. Computers changed everything, and I had to go back to school, and basically take the same classes again. And a few totally new ones for totally new technology.

Now the kicker, technology advances at a much more rapid pace than it did before. (Thanks to... computers.) Essentially doubling knowledge every few years. More importantly, it makes everything you know and learned, obsolete in about two years. Yes, that means a person cannot even get out of a four year school before half of the knowledge has expired.

So good luck with learning just one vocation and learning it just once.

And it's basically 4 engineering degrees, Industrial Design, Mechanical Design, Computer Electronics, and Aviation Maintenance (good for aviation engineers to have). This doesn't include numerous certificates, one of which took almost three years to get, taking one part-time class at a time. And an incomplete Master's in Education. I didn't like it.

But most jobs will pay for continued education, so it's good to take night classes forever.

Yes, I'm really tired of taking classes. Most of which I'm now more qualified to teach rather than take.

Theres a problem in the curriculum if EVERYTHING you learn is obsolete in engineering. Sure there are new tools available for M&S, CFD, FEA, etc. but all the underlying theories are the same.

More power to you though to go back and "re-educate" yourself. I graduated HS in 01 and am still in school. 1 BS and 1 MS both in engineering...and that was enough engineering school for me. So now the AF is paying for a masters in R&D mgmt.

[ReconRat]

It's an exaggeration to say it all goes obsolete, but that's the story going around in education right now. Two years and it's a goner.

It's really only the methods and techniques that go obsolete. Core knowledge remains the same (hopefully), but that doesn't go far anymore. That doesn't count for anything that ends in -ology. Apparently those core knowledge elements change frequently.