Warrantless wiretapping.

[Tonik]

I thought this stuff was supposed to 'Change'.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10451518-38.html

Can we expect a documentary about this from Micheal Moore? Or the Dems to make it an election issue? I won't hold my breath.

[Disclaimer]

<sigh>

You're confusing wiretapping with tracking (per the article), which are two different issues - they're both pivacy related, but that's about the extent.

[Tonik]

<sigh>

You're confusing wiretapping with tracking (per the article), which are two different issues - they're both pivacy related, but that's about the extent.

I am also confusing Obama with Bush.

[InyaAzz]

Not a fan of privacy infringement...but where did Obama say this specifically was going to change? Just curious. Cause if he said it, and went back on it, obviously he's got some 'splainin to do.

[Likwid]

Argue the merits and he-said she-said all you want this quote says it all.

In that case, the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts. U.S. Department of Justice lawyers say that "a customer's Fourth Amendment rights are not violated when the phone company reveals to the government its own records" that show where a mobile device placed and received calls.

I personally think we all have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding where we go... but I guess the gubnant doesn't. Just think, next time you call your wife/girlfriend/mom from a strip club the caller ID will say "Joe Smith 330-555-1234 Calling From Platinum Horse"

[InyaAzz]

Argue the merits and he-said she-said all you want this quote says it all.

I personally think we all have a reasonable expectation of privacy regarding where we go... but I guess the gubnant doesn't. Just think, next time you call your wife/girlfriend/mom from a strip club the caller ID will say "Joe Smith 330-555-1234 Calling From Platinum Horse"

This administration, as far as I can tell, isn't any different in that regard from previous administrations..especially after 9/11.

So, I have to ask..again..is this something the President said was going to 'change'?

[Likwid]

This administration, as far as I can tell, isn't any different in that regard from previous administrations..especially after 9/11.

So, I have to ask..again..is this something the President said was going to 'change'?

I think both are bullshit, but there IS a big difference between listening in on your calls and seeing where you made the call.

This isn't about wiretapping, this is about tracking. Like I said, both are shitty, but Obama never said he was changing being able to warrantlessly track people... just that he wasn't in favor of warrantless wiretaps.

Again, different degrees of shittiness, but still shitty.

[InyaAzz]

I think both are bullshit, but there IS a big difference between listening in on your calls and seeing where you made the call.

This isn't about wiretapping, this is about tracking. Like I said, both are shitty, but Obama never said he was changing being able to warrantlessly track people... just that he wasn't in favor of warrantless wiretaps.

Again, different degrees of shittiness, but still shitty.

I totally agree. My point is that the OP said this was supposed to 'change', implying that Obama was going back on his word. And yes, maybe it's splitting hairs in a sense, but this is clearly two different techniques we're talking about. Yes...both are shitty if you ask me, but did Obama specifically go back on his 'word'? I don't see where this is the case..and if it exists please, someone, prove me wrong.

I like to deal with facts..not half-truths.

[Likwid]

I totally agree. My point is that the OP said this was supposed to 'change', implying that Obama was going back on his word. And yes, maybe it's splitting hairs in a sense, but this is clearly two different techniques we're talking about. Yes...both are shitty if you ask me, but did Obama specifically go back on his 'word'? I don't see where this is the case..and if it exists please, someone, prove me wrong.

I like to deal with facts..not half-truths.

It's clearly folks doing 20/20 hindsight analysis and trying to second guess, noone should deny that.

But saying "Obama never said he wouldn't do this" is similar to saying "No I didn't break the vase YESTERDAY" when you broke it 2 days ago.

"I will not wiretap people!" ... "well this isn't a wiretap"

Shitty, true... but shitty.

[Disclaimer]

Splitting hairs' date=' Justin. They're both infringements of privacy.[/quote']

I disagree that it's splitting hairs.

It's one thing to know where I am, it's another to know everything I'm saying, to whom I'm saying it to, and in what context. I guess Matt already pointed that out.

I mean, I agree they're both infringements on privacy that I'm opposed to, but the implications of them are very different. I'm not that opposed to TRACKING, because they could do that with landlines, I don't know why you'd expect privacy from cell towers in the case of tracking your whereabouts.

I'm not too happy this administration isn't totally committing to following through on it's promises to revoke those types of programs. But, I tend to value freedom/privacy over security.

Edited February 11, 2010 by JRMMiii

[InyaAzz]

But saying "Obama never said he wouldn't do this" is similar to saying "No I didn't break the vase YESTERDAY" when you broke it 2 days ago.

.

This is my question...DID Obama even SAY that? I'm not saying he did or didn't....I honestly don't know. That's why I'm asking. Because if he didn't, then I'm just chucking this thread into the usual bullshit pile. If he DID say it..then he's full of bullshit himself.

I'm sure the minions are mining the internet as I type this.

[InyaAzz]

I'm not happy this administration isn't totally committing to following through on it's promises to revoke those types of programs.

This is the piece I'm missing. I didn't realize the administration promised to revoke this type of stuff....hence all my questions.

[Likwid]

I disagree that it's splitting hairs.

It's one thing to know where I am, it's another to know everything I'm saying, to whom I'm saying it to, and in what context. I guess Matt already pointed that out.

I mean, I agree they're both infringements on privacy that I'm opposed to, but the implications of them are very different. I'm not happy this administration isn't following through on it's promises to revoke those types of programs.

Well to be fair, this isn't an existing program or anything. This is a product of new technology. Tracking cell phones is STILL a relatively new technology, triangulating cell towers is one thing, E911 (which this essentially uses) is an entirely different thing and 3 years ago most phones didn't have it.

But I agree, the Obama administration should stand on the PRINCIPLES of what they were saying, not just what was said.

[Likwid]

This is my question...DID Obama even SAY that? I'm not saying he did or didn't....I honestly don't know. That's why I'm asking. Because if he didn't, then I'm just chucking this thread into the usual bullshit pile. If he DID say it..then he's full of bullshit himself.

I'm sure the minions are mining the internet as I type this.

Yah, one of Obama's statements was he was going to end warrantless wiretaps

For one thing, under an Obama presidency, Americans will be able to leave behind the era of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and "wiretaps without warrants," he said. (He was referring to the lingering legal fallout over reports that the National Security Agency scooped up Americans' phone and Internet activities without court orders, ostensibly to monitor terrorist plots, in the years after the September 11 attacks.)

Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9845595-7.html

[InyaAzz]

Yah, one of Obama's statements was he was going to end warrantless wiretaps

Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9845595-7.html

THANKS

Ok, so he said no wiretaps...this clearly isn't a wiretap, BUT it's an invasion of privacy...of sorts.

The NSA has been doing this, and worse for a long while now (ISP's). So, even though this is a 'newer' technology, it's the same old shit.

[Disclaimer]

+1 for the Hebrew Hammer

"pounding information into your yarmulke one post at a time"

[ReconRat]

Hahahaha, police departments have been requesting and receiving phone records for location tracking of felons since it became possible. Millions of requests per year. There will be no change...

[InyaAzz]

That's kinda my point..same techniques, just using different technology.

[InyaAzz]

Good point. Someone tell the NSA.

[Disclaimer]

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure Pauly.

Riled up yet?

[InyaAzz]

This is getting better and better. Almost good enough for me not to go shower my sweaty balls.

[Disclaimer]

Now that sounds interesting.

I think Mexicans should have the right to landscape my property.

[jbot]

what's there to argue? haven't you watched gran torino already? the argument ended with, "get the fuck off my lawn, you god damn zipper head"

[alienpi]

I wonder if using the Skype mobile phone app along with proxy servers along with a touch of cell phone spoofing would combat this pesky tracking problem?

Skype for Palm Pre

Edited February 11, 2010 by alienpi

[Tonik]

My point is that the OP said this was supposed to 'change', implying that Obama was going back on his word. And yes, maybe it's splitting hairs in a sense, but this is clearly two different techniques we're talking about.

Obama was all over Bush about privacy issues during the campaign. And while I don't recall (and do not believe) that he said 'warrant-less gps tracking' specifically he even took time in his inaguration speech to slam Bush over the attacks on our privacy and freedoms.

"“As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations."

And here we are, the administration is defending f'ing GPS tracking AMERICAN CITIZENS and you want to split hairs. He has taken up all the lawsuits that the ACLU and everyone else filed against Bush and is defending them big time. He hasn't gotten rid of the patriot act, or gitmo.

The man totally lied to us, and you debate my choice word choices.