Obama doesn't have time to wait for Congress

[alienpi]

www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/us/politics/13obama.html

Lots of bills are stalled in congress, so Obama decides to just bypass Congress with executive orders.

Rule of decree definition from wikipedia

[Disclaimer]

I read that the other day... I don't like the fact that any president has to employ these tactics because of the obstructionism that plagues Congress.

But there is a difference between obstructionism after attempting to compromise and issuing executive orders without even trying to get people to come to the table and discuss the issues.

[Likwid]

Really? Are you fucking serious?

Number Title/Description Date signed Federal Register

Page Date

13198 Established agency responsibilities with respect to faith-based and community initiatives 2001-01-29 66 FR 8497 2001-01-31

13199 Established the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives 2001-01-29 66 FR 8499 2001-01-31

13200 President's Information Technology Advisory Committee, Further Amendment to Executive Order 13035, as Amended. 2001-02-11 66 FR 10183 2001-02-14

13201 Notification of Employee Rights Concerning Payment of Union Dues or Fees. 2001-02-17 66 FR 11221 2001-02-22

13202 Preservation of Open Competition and Government Neutrality Towards Government Contractors' Labor Relations on Federal and Federally Funded Construction Projects 2001-02-17 66 FR 11225 2001-02-22

13203 Revocation of Executive Order and Presidential Memorandum Concerning Labor-Management Partnerships 2001-02-17 66 FR 11227 2001-02-22

13204 Revocation of Executive Order on Nondisplacement of Qualified Workers Under Certain Contracts 2001-02-17 66 FR 11228 2001-02-22

13205 Establishing an Emergency Board To Investigate a Dispute Between Northwest Airlines, Inc., and Its Employees Represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. 2001-03-09 66 FR 15011 2001-03-14

13206 Termination of Emergency Authority for Certain Export Controls. 2001-04-04 66 FR 18397 2001-04-09

13207 Further Amendment to Executive Order 10000, Regulations Governing Additional Compensation and Credit Granted Certain Employees of the Federal Government Serving Outside the United States 2001-04-05 66 FR 18399 2001-04-09

13208 Amendment to Executive Order 13202, Preservation of Open Competition and Government Neutrality Towards Government Contractors' Labor Relations on Federal and Federally Funded Construction Projects 2001-04-06 66 FR 18399 2001-04-09

13209 Amendment to Executive Order 13183, Establishment of the President's Task Force on Puerto Rico's Status. 2001-04-30 66 FR 22105 2001-05-02

13210 President's Commission To Strengthen Social Security 2001-05-02 66 FR 22105 2001-05-04

13211 Actions Concerning Regulations That Significantly Affect Energy Supply, Distribution, or Use 2001-05-18 66 FR 28355 2001-05-22

13212 Actions To Expedite Energy-Related Projects 2001-05-18 66 FR 28357 2001-05-22

13213 Additional Measures With Respect To Prohibiting the Importation of Rough Diamonds From Sierra Leone 2001-05-22 66 FR 28829 2001-05-24

13214 President's Task Force To Improve Health Care Delivery for Our Nation's Veterans. 2001-05-28 66 FR 29447 2001-05-31

13215 President's Information Technology Advisory Committee, Further Amendment to Executive Order 13035, as Amended. 2001-05-31 66 FR 30285 2001-06-05

13216 Amendment to Executive Order 13125, Increasing Participation of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Federal Programs. 2001-06-06 66 FR 31373 2001-06-11

13217 Community-Based Alternatives for Individuals With Disabilities 2001-06-18 66 FR 33155 2001-06-21

13218 21st Century Workforce Initiative 2001-06-20 66 FR 33627 2001-06-22

13219 Blocking Property of Persons Who Threaten International Stabilization Efforts in the Western Balkans. 2001-06-26 66 FR 34775 2001-06-29

13220 Waiver Under the Trade Act of 1974 With Respect to the Republic of Belarus. 2001-07-02 66 FR 35527 2001-07-05

13221 Energy Efficient Standby Power Devices 2001-07-31 66 FR 40571 2001-08-02

13222 Continuation of Export Control Regulations 2001-08-17 66 FR 44025 2001-08-22

13223 Ordering the Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty and Delegating Certain Authorities to the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of Transportation. 2001-09-14 66 FR 48201 2001-09-18

13224 Blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism 2001-09-23 66 FR 49079 2001-09-25

13225 Continuance of Certain Federal Advisory Committees 2001-09-28 66 FR 50291 2001-10-03

13226 President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology 2001-09-30 66 FR 50523 2001-10-03

13227 President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education 2001-10-02 66 FR 51289 2001-10-05

13228 Establishing the Office of Homeland Security and the Homeland Security Council 2001-10-08 66 FR 51812 2001-10-10

13229 Amendment to Executive Order 13045, Extending the Task Force on Environmental Health Risks and Safety Risks to Children 2001-10-09 66 FR 52013 2001-10-11

13230 President's Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans 2001-10-12 66 FR 52841 2001-10-17

13231 Critical Infrastructure Protection in the Information Age 2001-10-16 66 FR 53063 2001-10-18

13232 Further Amendment to Executive Order 10789, as Amended, To Authorize the Department of Health and Human Services To Exercise Certain Contracting Authority in Connection With National Defense Functions 2001-10-20 66 FR 53941 2001-10-24

13233 Furthers implementation of the Presidential Records Act 2001-11-01 66 FR 56025 2001-11-05

13234 Presidential Task Force on Citizen Preparedness in the War on Terrorism 2001-11-09 66 FR 57355 2001-11-15

13235 National Emergency Construction Authority 2001-11-16 66 FR 58343 2001-11-20

13236 Waiver of Dual Compensation Provisions of the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement Act of 1964 2001-11-27 66 FR 59671 2001-11-29

13237 Creation of the President's Council on Bioethics 2001-11-28 66 FR 59851 2001-11-30

13238 Closing of Federal Government Executive Departments and Agencies on Monday, December 24, 2001 2001-12-05 66 FR 63903 2001-12-10

13239 Designation of Afghanistan and the Airspace Above as a Combat Zone 2001-12-12 66 FR 64907 2001-12-14

13240 Council of Europe in Respect of the Group of States Against Corruption 2001-12-18 66 FR 64907

13278 President's Commission on the United States Postal Service

13292 Further amendment to Executive Order 12958, as amended, classified national security information

13303 Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and certain other property in which Iraq has an interest

13326 President's Commission on implementation of United States space exploration policy

13355 Strengthened Management of the Intelligence Community 2004-08-27

13356 Strengthening the Sharing of Terrorism Information To Protect Americans 2004-08-27

13388 Further strengthening the sharing of terrorism Information to protect Americans

13395 Designating the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria as a public international organization entitled to enjoy certain privileges, exemptions, and immunities

13396 Blocking property of certain persons contributing to the conflict in Côte d'Ivoire

13397 Responsibilities of the Department of Homeland Security with respect to faith-based and community initiatives

13398 National Mathematics Advisory Panel

13406 Limits the Federal Government's use of eminent domain to situations in which the seizure is for public use, with just compensation, and is intended to benefit the general public, excluding certain specific instances

13435 Expanding Approved Stem Cell Lines in Ethically Responsible Ways 2007-06-20 72 FR 3112 2007-06-22

13438 Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq

13483 Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay

13484 Amending the Order of Succession Within the Department of Agriculture

13485 Providing an Order of Succession Within the Department of Transportation

13486 Strengthening Laboratory Biosecurity in the United States

* National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive: address continuity of government in the event of a "catastrophic emergency" disrupting the U.S. population, economy, environment, infrastructure and government policy. *Note: Presidential Directives are often classified and are not numbered among executive orders.

[alienpi]

Really? Are you fucking serious?

I was just trying to illustrate a problem. The executive order thing is not new to me.

[Likwid]

...and EVERY president uses the power of Executive Order.

That was my point

[Disclaimer]

What? The Dems own the House. What obstructionism? The fact that Brown made it to the Senate has nothing to do with obstructionism. He was voted in for one reason... he'll stop NHC. End of story. Period. How exactly is that obstructionism? He's going to do what he was voted in to do. It's his job as a Senator to do the bidding of his constituents.

It's not about Brown... but how many links do you want? I bet if you search ORDN for the term "obstruction"... you'll find what you need to know.

[Disclaimer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/opinion/08krugman.html

[Disclaimer]

You're right, everyone wants to put their own agenda through in the easiest way possible - that's human nature, but the difference is the Dems invite ideas to the table for discussion, including from the GOP and the GOPs ideas are, for lack of a better term, nonsensical.

You remember that video awhile back (a couple weeks) where Obama went to a GOP meeting and totally worked them over? It was in the news, all over the place with headlines about how 'Obama walks into the lions den and slays all the lions' - Watch that and you'll see what I'm talking about. I did, and he totally routed them.

The GOP on the other hand, dismisses any ideas but their own... you know how bad it's become. The GOP will attack anything and everything that isn't labeled GOP - regardless of the ideas.

GOP slams rep who just became a Republican

[Likwid]

Pauly don't you have some babies you should be punching?

[Disclaimer]

It's all relative' date=' though. I think, have thought, for a few years that the Democrats have butchered the House. We should have some sort of health care reform in this country, but ObamaCare was NOT the reform we need. Both sides are chalk full of fail. The big thing for me is the Democrats don't need the Republicans. What's with the big stopping power? We don't have any. You guys own the House. The only thing I can come up with is the Dems want the Repubs to jump aboard... just in case the whole thing sinks to the ocean floor. Being the party that is responsible for the complete collapse of medical care in this nation isn't something I'd want to be a part of... for sure.[/quote']

Regardless of NEED, you don't win people over by plowing them over. I don't know what your past experience is, but since I'm a cube monkey I know that projects tend to run A LOT smoother if we have everyone's buy-in on the process. If not, you're going to run into the 1, or 2, or 75 people that don't agree with how it's handled and the project is going to get stymied. Management will be stuck playing diplomat to get initiatives taken care of.

The difference being that we have to 'make the numbers' and the gov't has to 'make the polls'. I do like that part about gov't though, it we have a chance to fire people a lot more often than my employer would.

Regarding out health care... we ALREADY KNOW it's going to collapse in the near-future (look at the GDP spend trends on it), so... it's much better to fix it now than wait until ultra-drastic actions need to take place, especially since that's the time I'm going to need health care.

It's not about, "Jump on board so we can all sink this ship", it's "jump on board and help us man the bucket line to keep this f*(ker afloat"

Edited February 16, 2010 by JRMMiii

[Likwid]

Getting a project done isn't about merits or benefits, it's about who's your sponsor.

[Disclaimer]

The major difference between your job and the government... your job isn't a Representative Republic. The government's job isn't to fix anything. It's to do what we say' date=' when we say, how we say. I'm not saying the American people are the brightest candles in the window when it comes to electing it's representatives, but that's the system we have. Liberty isn't always pretty. We'll, undoubtedly, make poor choices along the way, but liberty MUST be at the forefront of any politician's agenda. If not, he/she does not represent the values that make The United States the country it is... or strives to be.[/quote']

So wait, you're saying the majority collective idiocracy is better than an actual solution because it's "the US way"?

[Disclaimer]

Fair enough, but something has to exist to protect our liberties, else we fall into anarchy. Which, if these issues don't get addressed, we'll be spending more to keep citizens healthy than we spend on our defense. So, we'll all have the liberty to bow to our Chinese overloads because we'll be a fat, decrepit, broke country.

[Strictly Street]

Putting aside the pro/con versions of who is at fault everything in the USA, democrats or republicans. Which is a self defeating argument and will always go nowhere, I repeat always!!

I offer a few thoughts about comments made in this thread.

Executive orders have been used by every President I have ever heard of in my short time on this earth.

Obstructionism is a word used by the guy being obstructed, stopping a bad piece of law is the other side of the coin.

Notice which side you are on determines if it is a good thing or not.

With the thousands of laws passed each year that affect anything and everything trying to keep pace with the fact of un-intended consequences of those laws. I'm thinking the less laws passed the better.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Strictly Street

[InyaAzz]

I was just trying to illustrate a problem. The executive order thing is not new to me.

With a title like "Obama doesn't have time to wait for Congress"...I doubt it.

[Disclaimer]

Links plz.

I'd draft stuff behind closed doors too. Like in college, you don't need to see my thesis prior to it being done and ready for view. THEN we can discuss it after I've ironed on my OWN ideas out and got them on paper.

[Disclaimer]

GOP Obstruction Has Shattered Previous Record

And that was back in 2008 before Obama was in Office...

[Disclaimer]

Obama answers the transparency issue on that video I mentioned... all these bipartisan meetings occurred offsite from Capitol Hill and the CSPAN cameras weren't going to follow all the GOP and Dem members everywhere across Washington.

Obama doesn't have control over where all these Congressmen and women choose to roam.

[Disclaimer]

I realize that because you're completely content in life where things are at, RIGHT NOW. Don't want to move forward or backward. Just HALT everything because nothing can be better than it is RIGHT NOW.

[Uncle Punk]

I realize that because you're completely content in life where things are at, RIGHT NOW. Don't want to move forward or backward. Just HALT everything because nothing can be better than it is RIGHT NOW.

That might be one way to characterize his assessment of obstructionism. My way would be that when something gets done it doesn't just reflect one party’s agenda it should be something that is good for all of us that both parties can agree on. Those things do happen and there is not much debate or criticism of such laws. Obstructionism rules, just ask the people of Massachusetts, they voted for it.

[Disclaimer]

Not at all. Not sure how you draw that conclusion. You and I want the same things' date=' I'm sure. You just think those things should come from Washington and I think they should come from the American people.[/quote']

I'm not in favor of entitlement programs, but understand the necessity of them in certain circumstances. Health care is one of these, we can debate market economics on it forever and sway me a little this way or that way, but you're not going to convince me the health insurance industry should be a FOR-profit enterprise. I'd love to be selfish and tell all you unemployed assholes to f*(k off, I got mine, I'm still holding a job, so screw you guys... but I don't, because those programs are there for a reason, as is welfare, and SS.

Things are fucked' date=' no doubt about it. I just don't think throwing money at it is the answer. How about taking a chill for a spell and seeing if the economy comes around? Why throw money at something Congress, obviously, doesn't understand? We've been throwing money at this for so long there's no way to really tell what the effects have been. So, once again, we acted so hastily that we'll never really know how to avoid/fix this problem in the future.[/quote']

We do know how to fix these issues, FDR did it 70 years ago. The fundamentals of economics really haven't changed, just the speed.

It's not about wanting to sit in my pathetic life because I love the way my diaper smells. It's about figuring how to get that diaper changed on my own so I don't have to be molested by my creepy uncle' date=' Sam.[/quote'] Good analogy.

That might be one way to characterize his assessment of obstructionism. My way would be that when something gets done it doesn't just reflect one party’s agenda it should be something that is good for all of us that both parties can agree on. Those things do happen and there is not much debate or criticism of such laws. Obstructionism rules, just ask the people of Massachusetts, they voted for it.

Like I've been saying, the Dems are open to discussing ideas, but all the GOP can come up with is 'NO' or plans that have no basis in reality either because they don't make sense or they can't be fiscally justified.

[Disclaimer]

That's what needs fixed... the insurance part (which includes lobbyists). I've got nothing against doctors charging for their services. But, you don't have to have an MBA to know that in any transaction that the middleman is the one that stands to gain the most.

Insurance companies are that middleman. They need to be facilitators, not profit-generators.

[Uncle Punk]

Like I've been saying, the Dems are open to discussing ideas, but all the GOP can come up with is 'NO' or plans that have no basis in reality either because they don't make sense or they can't be fiscally justified.

Plans that make no sense and can't be fiscally justified sounds to me exactly like the Democrats plans. The Republicans have a complete list of changes they are willing to vote for regarding healthcare. Just because the obstructionist Democrats don’t agree with them I don’t think they shouldn’t pass.

I won't disagree that some changes need to be made with the healthcare system but I think the biggest problems to the system came about from government interference. They have created a problem and now are presenting themselves as the solution. I don't trust their leadership if they don't have the foresight to understand the problems they have created by mandating a business gives away services.

If free markets have not presented a solution that the majority of the people are satisfied with then by virtue of it being a free market an alternative solution would have been presented. I do not think healthcare is a service the government needs to be involved in much the same as I don't think they need to be involved in public transportation. There are no public transit systems that I know of that are self sustaining from a generated revenue stream. They all have to be subsidized why not subsidize transportation for all of us; I want a new car on the government. That sounds ridiculous just as much as I think it does for me to expect the government to provide me with healthcare.

[Disclaimer]

Plans that make no sense and can't be fiscally justified sounds to me exactly like the Democrats plans. The Republicans have a complete list of changes they are willing to vote for regarding healthcare. Just because the obstructionist Democrats don’t agree with them I don’t think they shouldn’t pass.

No they don't... name some.

[Uncle Punk]

Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.

Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.

Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.

Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.