Thoughts on Arizona immigration law?

[jporter12]

Tacos FTW!

Justin's buying, too!

[swingset]

sure does, I can't think of any time that didn't work out to the general well being of the country.

Here's the main issue all you kneejerk retards can't seem to get... lots of folks aren't arguing the rights of illegals... they're arguing the rights of CITIZENS that happen to look foreign.

What are your rights if you resemble someone that just knocked over a bank? Do you have the right to be stopped and questioned? Is this a violation of your civil rights? Nope...only if you're unreasonably treated, detained, arrested, etc.

Same with illegals. If a cop has reason to believe someone might be an illegal, for whatever reason, he can ask and the citizen is not being violated by questioning, only by unreasonable treatment thereafter.

Nothing about this law is very much different than the powers already given to ICE or border enforcement folks. If you stroll across the desert near the border, even as a US citizen, lilly white in all your honkey-glory, you will STILL be stopped and questioned. It would not be a violation of your civil rights then, either.

[swingset]

Soooo...Some Indian-on-Indian tribal warfare in the American southwest is clearly reason to accept attempted racial extermination (was called genocide when Adolph had a go at it) --spanning two continents. But where does that leave the issue of illegals?

Where did I say that genocide by anyone was acceptable or even rationalized?

Wow, talk about putting words in someone's mouth. My only point, if you were clever enough to infer it, is that there are almost no large groups of people who are immune from misdeeds, horrible acts, or violence & aggression. Playing whitey off as the evil, in all things, is myopic and infantile. I also made the point that the natives that were driven off lands had taken those lands from others. Wrong is wrong, you don't get a pass because the people you violated are the same color....well, I guess Al Sharpton disagrees.

Genocide is always wrong, whether Tonto did it or Adolph. Being an illegal alien is always illegal, whether you're from Toronto or Juarez. Neither is something we as a country should tolerate & condone, unless your sliding liberal situational ethics are looking for votes.

Edited April 27, 2010 by swingset

[Likwid]

What are your rights if you resemble someone that just knocked over a bank? Do you have the right to be stopped and questioned? Is this a violation of your civil rights? Nope...only if you're unreasonably treated, detained, arrested, etc.

Big difference between "White male, about 6 feet tall wearing blue jeans and a leather jacket" and "black dude that looks shady"

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

What are your rights if you resemble someone that just knocked over a bank? Do you have the right to be stopped and questioned? Is this a violation of your civil rights? Nope...only if you're unreasonably treated, detained, arrested, etc.

Same with illegals. If a cop has reason to believe someone might be an illegal, for whatever reason, he can ask and the citizen is not being violated by questioning, only by unreasonable treatment thereafter.

Nothing about this law is very much different than the powers already given to ICE or border enforcement folks. If you stroll across the desert near the border, even as a US citizen, lilly white in all your honkey-glory, you will STILL be stopped and questioned. It would not be a violation of your civil rights then, either.

Well put.

[Coyote]

Where did I say that genocide by anyone was acceptable or even rationalized?

Apparently I am not clever enough to follow your logic this evening...

It's ok if you conquer and steal lands, driving the inhabitants off, providing you're not a honkey.

I was expounding upon my apparent misinterpretation of what I had perceived as your downplaying of what many construe as the equivalent of terrorism on the indigeni as satisfactory repercussion…

[Likwid]

Let's translate this.

Are you all comfortable being stopped when you get on the highway and checked for a MC endorsement? What about stopped every day to double check you have valid insurance?

Knowing the folks here I can predict the responses

[shittygsxr]

Let's translate this.

Are you all comfortable being stopped when you get on the highway and checked for a MC endorsement? What about stopped every day to double check you have valid insurance?

Knowing the folks here I can predict the responses

like when cops set up roadblocks all over the city trying to get drunk drivers?

[Likwid]

like when cops set up roadblocks all over the city trying to get drunk drivers?

Yup, how much does everyone love that? Let's extend it from instead of being at night, being all day every day.

[Disclaimer]

When it gets to that point...

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em"

[Bad324]

When it gets to that point...

"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em"

i knew this sweet olive skin and a love for burritos would come in handy some day

[Likwid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpgqgfJs4w

[Rod38um]

Well, I seem to be in the minority here, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

First of all, I'm completely against it. I think that any time you make it legal to discriminate it's a bad idea. The whole purpose of this law is that if someone 'looks' like their here illegally then they can be questioned. It's just legalizing harassment.

Second, just because you're not part of the group doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about whether or not it's violating their rights as a person. If you don't stand up for them, who's going to stand up for you if you ever need support.

First they came for the Communists,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn’t speak up,

because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one

left to speak up for me.

-Martin Niemoller (1945)

Totally off the mark...... apparently you have no clue as to what passed. Nothing in it makes it legal to discriminate. And Nobody is "coming " for any group. You've bought into the liberal spin hook line and sinker.

[jagr]

i knew this sweet olive skin and a love for burritos would come in handy some day

[Likwid]

Totally off the mark...... apparently you have no clue as to what passed. Nothing in it makes it legal to discriminate. And Nobody is "coming " for any group. You've bought into the liberal spin hook line and sinker.

I'm not sure most folks read the bill being passed. It says law enforcement has the right with reasonable suspicion to require proof of citizenship if they believe someone is here illegally.

I'm not sure about you, but I can't tell by looking at someone they are breaking the law... unless of course you just pick the brown/black/yellow folks... then it's obvious.

[swingset]

I'm not sure most folks read the bill being passed. It says law enforcement has the right with reasonable suspicion to require proof of citizenship if they believe someone is here illegally.

I'm not sure about you, but I can't tell by looking at someone they are breaking the law... unless of course you just pick the brown/black/yellow folks... then it's obvious.

So you think cops will just be rounding up and stopping all brown skinned people to find illegals? You really think that's the outcome of this? Talk about hysteria and fear.

And yes, I read the entire bill. Border patrol and ICE are already given this same power, Federally, why aren't you concerned about their potential for abuse? They have no more ability to see "illegal" than you or I or an Arizona cop, so why do you think this will go so badly?

It's going to work like this, when cops have to respond to something and interact with someone and something about that person suggests they are not a citizen (there are a litany of clues beyond skin color, if you think about it for 10 seconds), they'll ask that the person about their citizenship....same as an ICE officer can and will do now should they let's say stop by a farm employing migrant workers.

That sounds just traumatic for the poor hispanic people. Imagine, being questioned about something you can easily disprove in 2 seconds with ID. How, again, are their civil rights being violated by AZ police, but not by ICE officials?

Keep playing that race card tho, it makes taking a stand much easier.

[chevysoldier]

wrong, we hit GW's law way back when Chevy suggested armbands

I would never suggest such a thing.

I'm not sure how many people actually made the connection with that comment tho and kind of surprised JRM left it alone.

[Disclaimer]

Meh, I got no dog in this fight, I'm not illegal, I'm not even 3rd generation FOB. I'm pretty sure my family was the first or second settlers in Ashland/Richland county before Ohio was even a state.... from what I can recall from the genealogy presentations my great aunt gives at family reunions.

I only interject to enrage people and keep the fuel on the fire.

You guys are doing a good job keeping the flames fanned right now. Jon Stewart covered this all last night anyway... something about (I'm paraphrasing) "all you have to do is say you're a citizen and they have to take you at your word...it's a loophole so big you could drive a truck... full of daylaborers... through it" -JS

Edited April 28, 2010 by JRMMiii

[jsheikh]

Meh, I got no dog in this fight, I'm not illegal, I'm not even 3rd generation FOB. I'm pretty sure my family was the first or second settlers in Ashland/Richland county before Ohio was even a state.... from what I can recall from the genealogy presentations my great aunt gives at family reunions.

I only interject to enrage people and keep the fuel on the fire.

You guys are doing a good job keeping the flames fanned right now. Jon Stewart covered this all last night anyway... something about (I'm paraphrasing) "all you have to do is say you're a citizen and they have to take you at your word...it's a loophole so big you could drive a truck... full of daylaborers... through it" -JS

Ya i dont know if anyone checked my post but ill put it up again... its on the daily show website. Its "Law & Border" clip

www.thedailyshow.com

[Aerik]

What are your rights if you resemble someone that just knocked over a bank? Do you have the right to be stopped and questioned? Is this a violation of your civil rights?

So you think cops will just be rounding up and stopping all brown skinned people to find illegals? You really think that's the outcome of this? Talk about hysteria and fear.

Keep playing that race card tho, it makes taking a stand much easier.

Please. 'You fit a description' has been used by cops to harass black folks since Reconstruction. The problem isn't really the initial questions, it's all the potential shenanigans they can pull afterward. Certainly, not every cop does it, but it only takes one total bastard to put you in jail (with a side of tasering / mace / beating) for some piddly shit that didn't actually happen. When it's your word against some cop's, guess who they normally believe?

'Playing the race card' is what it's called when race wasn't actually involved. In this case, race is a part of the motivation behind the historical harassment these laws can create and (often) the laws themselves.

Our friends on the right need to make a decision: Either you can complain that we liberals are infringing on people's personal liberty, or you can push for cops being able to stop and harass anyone at any time. You can't have both, so pick a fucking side.

[magley64]

What are your rights if you resemble someone that just knocked over a bank? Do you have the right to be stopped and questioned? Is this a violation of your civil rights? Nope...only if you're unreasonably treated, detained, arrested, etc

The difference is that if you look mexican, (regardless of your race) and you don't have your "papers" you can now be arrested without warrant.

THAT is unconstitutional.

what hits this so close to home is that my niece is 1/2 mexican, and I hate the thought that she can now be harassed "legally" in this country (albeit only in one state) because of her race, and her race alone.

Edited April 28, 2010 by magley64

[SAMBUSA]

This thread reminds me of the 50's. "OMG, they are a different color, let's treat them like they a dogs".

[Rod38um]

The difference is that if you look mexican, (regardless of your race) and you don't have your "papers" you can now be arrested without warrant.

THAT is unconstitutional.

what hits this so close to home is that my niece is 1/2 mexican, and I hate the thought that she can now be harassed "legally" in this country (albeit only in one state) because of her race, and her race alone.

Totally wrong, you cant be arrested on looks....... OMG some people!!!

If a cop stops a car load of people and nobody can show ID and most cant speak english, then yes, they are going to be "detained" not arrested until it can be determined if they are legal or not. If you're legal, show your ID, If you cant, should be no problem to make a call....... Hell I've been detained for lack of ID ........ no big deal...

If your niece is here legally, she should have no problem being in Arizona. If she's not..... hopefully someone will catch her and deport her......

[Rod38um]

This thread reminds me of the 50's. "OMG, they are a different color, let's treat them like they a dogs".

None of this has anything to do with race. It has to do with Legal / illegal

You simply cant sustain having thousands of criminals running drugs and doing various crimes, non criminal types sucking up tax payer provided resources and not even paying taxes. You have to do something, no matter where they come from or what color they are. Its really getting old having liberals turn every issue into a race thing just to distract from the truth....... I'm amazed that people will put up with drug running, murder, kidnapping, rapes...... just to preserve a few liberal votes.

[jeremygsxr]

If I am stopped at any given time I am required by law to show my "papers". I am 34 yr old white male, and have been asked many times for my "papers". Everyone on this board that have been in contact with police have been asked for their "papers".

The "papers" I speak of is my State issued I.D., why is it so bad to ask one to carry identification? I don't see (forsee) the authorities just going around like Nazi's asking for it.

Be legal or get legal.