An attempt to overturn visual speeding tickets - PLEASE READ

[jonni black]

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...ar-for-tickets

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Two leading state lawmakers want to overturn a ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court that says police officers can write speeding tickets just by looking at a vehicle and estimating how fast it is going.

State Rep. Robert Hagan, a Democrat from Youngstown, and state Sen. Tim Grendell, a Republican from suburban Cleveland, are working on bills that would require officers to use radar detectors or other technology to verify a vehicle's speed before issuing a ticket.

The American Civil Liberties Union says last week's court ruling creates the potential for abuse.

Clermont County Sheriff A.J. "Tim" Rodenberg said the ruling could lead to longer lines of people at the courthouse to fight their tickets, additional police officers on overtime and an avenue for police departments to beef up their revenue through citations.

In its decision, the high court said independent verification of a driver's speed is not necessary if the officer is trained, certified by a training academy and experienced in watching for speeders.

Please email Tim Gendell sd18@senate.state.oh.us and Robert Hagan district60@ohr.state.oh.us to support them in their fight of "visual speeding tickets"

[Disclaimer]

Good article. Thanks for posting.

Wrote both Gendell and Hagan to express my support, and my Rep (Sue Morano) to ask what she's doing regarding this.

[NinjaNick]

Good! Most ignorant law EVER created practically!

Thanks for sharing!

[Fonzie]

Good article. Thanks for posting.

Wrote both Gendell and Hagan to express my support, and my Rep (Sue Morano) to ask what she's doing regarding this.

Quit slackin' & cut/paste your letters here, so the rest of us lazy's who feel passionately about this issue can take the easy way out & just fill in the blanks & email

C'mon SpockBoy.... Make this easy for us ignerent masses

[Disclaimer]

Then they'll know they're form letters... you have to make them look different so it doesn't look like they came from a SPAM bot.

[Fonzie]

Then they'll know they're form letters... you have to make them look different so it doesn't look like they came from a SPAM bot.

So I'll/we'll fill in extra blanks/reword/reconfigure

But post up the templates for us to play with.... enginerd

[Likwid]

Good! Most ignorant law EVER created practically!

Thanks for sharing!

It's not a law, it's a precedent.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, just pointing out the vast difference in a law system derived from Common law. Actually passing a law from the government does nothing but IMPLY a precedence... something isn't enforceable until a judge upholds or overturns it.

Why do I say all this? Nothing our politicians do will change the fact that all a judge has to do is rule against it and a precedence has been set.

[Disclaimer]

<sigh> Fine, just fill in the blanks and you should be good to go.

1) Person addressed

2) Your name

3) Some variation of the Unaided Visual Estimate to write a Speeding Ticket

4) City of residence

5) City of residence

6) Select: small, mid-size, or large

7) Select: town or city

8) County in Ohio

9) Your name again

10) Your City again

11) Your congressional district (http://www.ohiosenate.gov/ - Type in your zipcode)

Rep / Gov / Sen. ___________,

Good day, my name is ____________ and I approve and applaud your efforts of getting the most recent decision from the Ohio Supreme Court regarding __________ changed or reversed.

Since I'm from ________ , Ohio, you understand how this greatly affects me. _______ is a (small/mid-size/large) (town/city) in the county of _______. There are many other of your constituents like me in that area of the State. We all like to sodomize sheep, drive drunk, and chase around minorities with flaming sticks. This is especially fun for me because I'm homosexual.

So, once again, myself and other inbred constituents like me, appreciate your efforts in fighting to keep Ohio a state of liberty.

Best Regards,

___________

______, OH

____ Congressional District

[jonni black]

<sigh> Fine, just fill in the blanks and you should be good to go.

1) Person addressed

2) Your name

3) Some variation of the Unaided Visual Estimate to write a Speeding Ticket

4) City of residence

5) City of residence

6) Select: small, mid-size, or large

7) Select: town or city

8) County in Ohio

9) Your name again

10) Your City again

11) Your congressional district (http://www.ohiosenate.gov/ - Type in your zipcode)

Rep / Gov / Sen. ___________,

Good day, my name is ____________ and I approve and applaud your efforts of getting the most recent decision from the Ohio Supreme Court regarding __________ changed or reversed.

Since I'm from ________ , Ohio, you understand how this greatly affects me. _______ is a (small/mid-size/large) (town/city) in the county of _______. There are many other of your constituents like me in that area of the State. We all like to sodomize sheep, drive drunk, and chase around minorities with flaming sticks. This is especially fun for me because I'm homosexual.

So, once again, myself and other inbred constituents like me , appreciate your efforts in fighting to keep Ohio a state of liberty.

Best Regards,

___________

______, OH

____ Congressional District

:eek:...lol!

[CattaniAFJ]

Did you steal that from SAMBUSA?

[jbot]

i can't wait for this evenings show to begin.

[Fonzie]

<sigh> Fine, just fill in the blanks and you should be good to go.

1) Person addressed

2) Your name

3) Some variation of the Unaided Visual Estimate to write a Speeding Ticket

4) City of residence

5) City of residence

6) Select: small, mid-size, or large

7) Select: town or city

8) County in Ohio

9) Your name again

10) Your City again

11) Your congressional district (http://www.ohiosenate.gov/ - Type in your zipcode)

Good SpockBoy!... Now we're talkin'

[jonni black]

bump!

everyone that is against visual determined speeding tickets need to email these mofos

[Scruit]

It's not a law, it's a precedent.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk, just pointing out the vast difference in a law system derived from Common law. Actually passing a law from the government does nothing but IMPLY a precedence... something isn't enforceable until a judge upholds or overturns it.

Why do I say all this? Nothing our politicians do will change the fact that all a judge has to do is rule against it and a precedence has been set.

A judge interprets and implements the laws that the legislature creates. If there is a grey area then the Judge uses his/her discretion and thereby sets a precedent.

Once a precedent is set it can be a binding or persuasive precedent. It's generally binding on subordinate courts (ie Appeals court precedents are binding on lower courts) and persuasive on all other courts (ie a California appeals ocurt ruling may be referenced in an Ohio trial to persuade the judge to rule in a similar way on a point of law, but the judge can rule against if he wants).

What a judge CANNOT do, is defy a stated law where they is no grey area. In this case there is no law stating that a radar gun is needed, nor is there one statinbg that it is not needed. So the judges substitute their opinions and set the precedent.

If the legislature subsequently passes a law clearly stating that a radar/laser/vascar etc is mandatory, then the precedent becomes moot and the new law stands.

A judge cannot overturn a law unless it's unconstitutional or in conflict with another law.

My law school was in the UK, not the US, so I may not be 100% on all of this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right on the mark.

[Likwid]

The problem here is that the ruling is counter to burdon of proof... they won't pass a law saying RADAR or LIDAR required because it would close the door to new technology (not saying it's impossible just saying I don't think it's likely).

But the worst news is that even if that new law was created this is a supreme court ruling... I'm not sure how congress overrides a supreme court ruling... call me ignorant

[Kosmo]

^^^^ haha LOL @ Justin and Fonz.....

[jbot]

i'm not sure if you guys read the actual decision by the court, but here's the link

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2010/2010-Ohio-2420.pdf

the case (by the city) is a mess and should've been tossed. no wonder this guy took it as far as he did.

officer says defendant was going 70mph per visual

radar reads 81mph (a full 11mph off)

officer COULD NOT produce his cert on the radar (which should've been a dismissal right then)

court then said, ah, well, the ticket will be revised to show the 70mph.

defendant fights this for obvious reasons

appeals court says, sure, why not charge a guy for something, and when you can't prove that, charge him for something else after the fact even though his training was ALREADY suspect (ie, not having certs and a discrepancy of 11mph between visual and radar).

supreme court says, well, even though you correctly cited at least 1 court ruling where visual estimate is not enough, there are other rulings that said it is, so there.

the 1 dissenting justice said that the officers credibility needs to be decided by jury.

[Haya!]

LOL I just read it. They basically just told the officer, "next time don't even use your radar gun, it's a piece. Just tell us how fast you think he was going and we got you." I love how they repeated he was trained to be within 3mph of the actual speed as credibility yet kept failing to see he posted the radar speed at 83mph and the visual speed at 70... BRILLIANT!

[AndyJ]

FYI it's starting. Third hand info, so take it for what it's worth: My vendor's nanny got stopped on 10 in Elyria yesterday morning, they had a speed trap set up; ticketed for 70 in a 65, based on the officer's estimate only.

Get those letters in.

Gotta wonder if some areas are just taking this and running to see how much extra $$ they can get to balance the budget.

[Sapphy]

Then they'll know they're form letters... you have to make them look different so it doesn't look like they came from a SPAM bot.

Use a form letter, I will not block it

[Disclaimer]

Word back from Rep. Lundy.

Dear Justin,

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the recent Supreme Court ruling. I disagree with the decision. Legislation is being drafted to address the issue. We cannot have a “your word vs. my word” approach to speeding in Ohio.

If you should have any further comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my office at either district57@ohr.state.oh.us or (614) 644-5076.

Continued Success,

MATT LUNDY

State Representative

57th House District

The Ohio House of Representatives

To be fair, I also got word back from Congressman Sherrod Brown too, but his letter was basically stating it was a state matter, not a Federal one (which I figured -- I just wanted him to be aware of the stuff going on and maybe use his higher influence for some state issues too) - and I should contact him if I have any issues @ the Federal Level.

[Disclaimer]

Just today...

Dear Justin,

I’m sincerely sorry for the delayed response. Thank you for writing me regarding this important issue. On June 2, 2010, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled in Barberton v. Jenney that a police officer’s unaided visual estimation of a vehicle’s speed is sufficient evidence to support a conviction for speeding. I, too, find this to be a violation of one’s rights, as we have the technology to obtain the actual speed of one’s vehicle.

In response to this ruling, Democratic Minority Leader, Senator Capri Cafaro, sponsored Senate Bill 280. This bill was introduced to the Senate on June 10, 2010, and will hopefully be voted on once session resumes later this year. I fully support this bill and will do what it takes to see that it passes.

Thank you again for expressing your concerns about this ruling. I hope that this was of help to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, do not hesitate contacting my office.

Sincerely,

Sue Morano

State Senator

District 13

Link to SB 280: http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=128_SB_280

Edited August 9, 2010 by JRMMiii

[beezer]

"Clermont County Sheriff A.J. "Tim" Rodenberg said the ruling could lead to longer lines of people at the courthouse to fight their tickets,"

The sheriff has it right. If everyone would plead not guilty and go to trial, like I do, the system would be brought to its knees in a few days. Nice image huh, the judge, cops and prosecutors on their knees?

[magley64]

anyone gotten any updates? I just emailed Kozlowski, asking him his view, and sent Cafaro a thank you for sponsoring bill 280 (rep for my county, woot)

[eggs]

<sigh> Fine, just fill in the blanks and you should be good to go.

1) Person addressed

2) Your name

3) Some variation of the Unaided Visual Estimate to write a Speeding Ticket

4) City of residence

5) City of residence

6) Select: small, mid-size, or large

7) Select: town or city

8) County in Ohio

9) Your name again

10) Your City again

11) Your congressional district (http://www.ohiosenate.gov/ - Type in your zipcode)Rep / Gov / Sen. ___________,

Good day, my name is ____________ and I approve and applaud your efforts of getting the most recent decision from the Ohio Supreme Court regarding __________ changed or reversed.

Since I'm from ________ , Ohio, you understand how this greatly affects me. _______ is a (small/mid-size/large) (town/city) in the county of _______. There are many other of your constituents like me in that area of the State. We all like to sodomize sheep, drive drunk, and chase around minorities with flaming sticks. This is especially fun for me because I'm homosexual.

So, once again, myself and other inbred constituents like me, appreciate your efforts in fighting to keep Ohio a state of liberty.

Best Regards,

___________

______, OH

____ Congressional District

LMFAO holy shit! I was gonna copy and paste it (i'm with Fonz btw) then i read the rest hahaha the best laugh I have had in days..REP to you!