NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 let me get this straight...Ninja14 on a ZX14, and dubguy85 on a 600, ON A ROAD COURSE?If dubguy85's not game, I am. You choose the track. I'll expect something with an epic straight-away to give you a fighting chance. Don't lump me in on what he said. I found it a little crazy too, unless he didn't know we were talking a road course. The 14 will get murdered at midohio unless the guy on the 600 doesn't have much experience. My money is on redkow97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Don't lump me in on what he said. I found it a little crazy too, unless he didn't know we were talking a road course. The 14 will get murdered at midohio unless the guy on the 600 doesn't have much experience. My money is on redkow97.do we have to jump back to Ninja14's intro thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 an oval would be interesting... I don't know Ninja14's track experience, but I think he's severely overestimating how much of an advantage horsepower provides against a competent rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 A few things to consider. One, you're looking at a sketch. Be real... Second, Kawi has always had a motor. No doubt. However, the chassis developement team as of late has either been trying real hard at sucking donkey nuts or has been really missing the point. Steal a fucking Suzuki, Yamaha, or even a Honda and copy the damn thing for Christ sake.The thing needs a frame before anything else and until that happens, it ain't gonna mean shit. Now, as Nick stated, a street guy doesn't care nor is the street guy going to notice the chatter that plagues the ZX10.On a final note about all this track racing and shit, come on down and I will ride a stock 600 (My choice) and you can run a stock ZX10 (your choice) and we can decide it then. Or, to be perfectly fair, I choose the 1000 I want to ride (stock) and ride a new ZX10 (current model) and I will try my hardest to ride as hard and equally on each bike. Brand other than Kawasaki is going to lap faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Preach Brotha Man..... Preach Just saying that I wouldn't put my money on him to reach the zx10's ability. I would Todd#43 or STT-Brian and maybe 2 or 3 more on here that could work the 10 to where it's just not enough for them. But I'm just trying to say that WAY MORE riders will not hit the capabilities of a zx10. Just my opinion that I feel is correct. Most buy it for the raw power anyway. I know I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 an oval would be interesting... I don't know Ninja14's track experience, but I think he's severely overestimating how much of an advantage horsepower provides against a competent rider.He doesn't have enough experience... Even a seasoned veteran racer would have a tough time keeping up on a ZX14... Plus, at Mid-Ohio, believe it or not, it is easier to ride a 600 faster around the track than a 1000... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 do we have to jump back to Ninja14's intro thread?I push my 14 pretty damn hard and I love my 14, but I even know that I push it to it's limits at times, and could use a liter bike or 600, but I just don't want one. I'd be much quicker on a 600 for sure or even a ZX10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Just saying that I wouldn't put my money on him to reach the zx10's ability. this is exactly the point. it's like saying, "that weight set only comes with 500 lbs."unless you can lift 500 lbs., it's an irrelevant complaint.The Kawasaki struggles at the World Superbike level because of the chassis problems Brian mentioned, but 99% of consumers will never be capable of pushing it to a point where that matters. They're not lifting 500 lbs.as for a ZX14 being faster than a 600 around a road course, I think it's possible with a novice on a 600 and an experienced rider on the 14, but riders being equal, it's going to take a really long straight for the 14 to close the gap the 600 creates in the turns. The more skilled the rider, the more pronounced the effect will be.That said, I think a 14 COULD chase down a 600 on a Road America length straight, but the 600 would sail by on the brakes into turn 1 and just repeat the process of opening up a lead the next lap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 A few things to consider. One, you're looking at a sketch. Be real... Second, Kawi has always had a motor. No doubt. However, the chassis developement team as of late has either been trying real hard at sucking donkey nuts or has been really missing the point. Steal a fucking Suzuki, Yamaha, or even a Honda and copy the damn thing for Christ sake.The thing needs a frame before anything else and until that happens, it ain't gonna mean shit. Now, as Nick stated, a street guy doesn't care nor is the street guy going to notice the chatter that plagues the ZX10.On a final note about all this track racing and shit, come on down and I will ride a stock 600 (My choice) and you can run a stock ZX10 (your choice) and we can decide it then. Or, to be perfectly fair, I choose the 1000 I want to ride (stock) and ride a new ZX10 (current model) and I will try my hardest to ride as hard and equally on each bike. Brand other than Kawasaki is going to lap faster.I agree, but you've been riding track for a long time; dubguy...not so long. I'm not doubting he can tear it up, I just don't think he'd be pulling less times on a ZX10 than he would on a gixxer1k out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 this is exactly the point. it's like saying, "that weight set only comes with 500 lbs."unless you can lift 500 lbs., it's an irrelevant complaint.The Kawasaki struggles at the World Superbike level because of the chassis problems Brian mentioned, but 99% of consumers will never be capable of pushing it to a point where that matters. They're not lifting 500 lbs.as for a ZX14 being faster than a 600 around a road course, I think it's possible with a novice on a 600 and an experienced rider on the 14, but riders being equal, it's going to take a really long straight for the 14 to close the gap the 600 creates in the turns. The more skilled the rider, the more pronounced the effect will be.That said, I think a 14 COULD chase down a 600 on a Road America length straight, but the 600 would sail by on the brakes into turn 1 and just repeat the process of opening up a lead the next lap...You just summed up the 2 arguements in this thread! Thank you.I owe you a beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 let's get a separate thread going for this bet. I really want to see this happen, and I'm good for the track fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 this is exactly the point. it's like saying, "that weight set only comes with 500 lbs."unless you can lift 500 lbs., it's an irrelevant complaint.The Kawasaki struggles at the World Superbike level because of the chassis problems Brian mentioned, but 99% of consumers will never be capable of pushing it to a point where that matters. They're not lifting 500 lbs.as for a ZX14 being faster than a 600 around a road course, I think it's possible with a novice on a 600 and an experienced rider on the 14, but riders being equal, it's going to take a really long straight for the 14 to close the gap the 600 creates in the turns. The more skilled the rider, the more pronounced the effect will be.That said, I think a 14 COULD chase down a 600 on a Road America length straight, but the 600 would sail by on the brakes into turn 1 and just repeat the process of opening up a lead the next lap...cheers ... lock it up LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I agree, but you've been riding track for a long time; dubguy...not so long. I'm not doubting he can tear it up, I just don't think he'd be pulling less times on a ZX10 than he would on a gixxer1k out there.I am willing to bet that if he was at the track and we prepped a ZX10 and a GSXR1000 the same way and even offered to help dial it in for him, he'd go faster on the GSXR easily. Trust me on the chatter - he's going to feel it and it is going to cause MAJOR distrust in the bike. Especially at Mid-Ohio.You don't need to be Spies to get it to chatter... It is a characterisitic of that frame design that causes that to happen at the point of pushing hard. The amount of chatter at that level is greater obviously, but the chatter will present itself at even lower levels of ability... MIGHT be able to dial it out slightly, but I bet I can get him to have it happen with a few sessions on the bike...Even if not, the GSXR is a better and more agile package. It just is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiztedRabbit Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 we can all to mid o? be there the 20th july anyways.. or putnam or grattan.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Even if not, the GSXR is a better and more agile package. It just is.That's common knowledge there. Suzuki owns the track. Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 this is exactly the point. it's like saying, "that weight set only comes with 500 lbs."unless you can lift 500 lbs., it's an irrelevant complaint.The Kawasaki struggles at the World Superbike level because of the chassis problems Brian mentioned, but 99% of consumers will never be capable of pushing it to a point where that matters. They're not lifting 500 lbs.as for a ZX14 being faster than a 600 around a road course, I think it's possible with a novice on a 600 and an experienced rider on the 14, but riders being equal, it's going to take a really long straight for the 14 to close the gap the 600 creates in the turns. The more skilled the rider, the more pronounced the effect will be.That said, I think a 14 COULD chase down a 600 on a Road America length straight, but the 600 would sail by on the brakes into turn 1 and just repeat the process of opening up a lead the next lap...Again, I am not thinking that is the case here. The teams have DUMPED A TON OF MONEY at the ZX10. So much in fact... They have done things to that frame to try and compensate and it STILL has issues...At the stock or base level, it is going to show itself as well. Think about the guy running one that has Ohlins 25mm kit and a TTX rear perfectly setup. Adjusted fork height, rear ride height, etc. Has numbers from the FEW guys racing them and goes out and in pushing for a fast lap, can ride around the chatter, but at the time to race 10 laps under sprint conditions, it is too much to handle and he gets beat or wads it or just throws it back into the trailer due to giving up...A stocker is going to have that happen easier due to the chassis is stock and nothing is set up. We can dial it as much as possible and even change the geometry a little. But, in all fairness, we would do that to the GSXR, also... When adding the trail the GSXR needs, it is going to be easier to ride fast.Would he go faster on a 600 than the ZX10 or even the GSXR1000? I am willing to bet he would. People tend to thin that if they rode my 1000, they'd go faster or as fast as I can on it... Truth be told, when I have put it to task, the guys that ride it, come back and usually say "holy shit" and then proceed to tell me they cannot believe I can ride the thing. 1000s are death machines. Not due to power, but because they make you ride the thing all the time. Always pushing and pulling and using so much energy. 600s? Easier to ride fast due to you can be on top of it most the time and really handle the thing vs. it riding you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 let's get a separate thread going for this bet. I really want to see this happen, and I'm good for the track fees.I think the guy didn't realize road course. I doubt you'll get a bet going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 we can all to mid o? be there the 20th july anyways.. or putnam or grattan.. I'll be there to help with setup. I will wrench the bikes for Dub so we can figure out the best settings. Or, if someone wants to donate a 2010 GSXR and ZX10, I will try and show what each will do or not do, also. But, I am not paying for a track day to do just that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I think the guy didn't realize road course. I doubt you'll get a bet going.he should have realized it was a road course. I went back and looked at Dubguy's post:U take a zx10 on a track, and I'll take my gsxr 600, and loser pays for the other persons track day! Deal? do they have "track days" at drag strips? (I honestly don't know).from where I'm sitting, DubGuy85 proposed the bet, and Ninja14 counter-offered with a ZX14 instead of a ZX10. I was late to the party, but i'm totally willing to step in if Dubguy loses his nerve.I enjoy being right, but damn you all for scaring Ninja14 away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducati guy Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 U take a zx10 on a track, and I'll take my gsxr 600, and loser pays for the other persons track day! Deal? I guarantee that I would run faster times on a track with a 600 than I would a zx10. Now, give me a 1000rr, s1000rr, or a light liter bike, then it might be a different story!Ill take you up on that deal..let's head back to ginerman raceway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 you prudes should race for slips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7fx Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Ill take you up on that deal..let's head back to ginerman racewayis this an open invitation for any 600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkow97 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 I live my life a 1/4 mile at a time.than you're going to get your ass handed to you for the other 5/4's of each lap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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