Subwoofer Enclsoure Build for a CR member

[SpeedTriple44444]

That's pretty cool, I want to build a line array once I build my home theater. Line array with a folded horn:bow:

I want to try an open baffle setup at home soon. I just don't have the room right now. I always have some kind of audio thing in the works, but I rarely finish anything.

I have been using a pair of MTM's I built for the last 10 years or so. They use two Vifa 6-1/2" woofers and a Morel MDT-33 soft dome per speaker. The image really well and are really clean in the midrange, but the bass is lacking. I made the enclosures too tall and skinny... not enough baffle area to get the bass coupled to the room.

[rawlins87]

That depends on if you're talking about sound quality or quantity. A ported box will put out more sound, but a TL has deeper more refined bass quality.

I somewhat disagree

Yes a ported box should be louder (90% of the time)

tlines work great on low power and low xmax subs

So in that regard a 100-300 Watt driver with an xmax of 12 will be louder in a tline. Especially small subs with low efficiency.

Now putting a 1000 Watt rms sub with a 27mm xmax in a tline will be counter productive if your gear to SPL. But should sound a lot cleaner.

Not saying your wrong, I agree 50%....just saying every install will have lots of variables and you must determine which will be the best scenario for what your trying to accomplish.

[SpeedTriple44444]

I would disagree about the low Xmax driver. I think that TL's have typically been built with lower power drivers due to their mid-high Q properties match up well. The excursion of a TL is similar to that of a sealed box (which requires more linear excursion) down to below the loading point, where it becomes undamped like a ported box. You need a healthy Xmax for a TL.

Effiiciency is lower on a TL, especially in the upper bass. A ported box with a woofer suitable for a low tuning frequency will win every time in a quantity contest, but I'll take the TL for the sound quality (just not in my car... I would like to be able to take a pack of gum with me, lol). Heck if you really want SPL, bandpasses give great efficiency (and terrible phase shift and group delay- yuck).

How did you go about tuning it?

[magley64]

I had too much stereo in my tempest back in the day... 2 alternators,

and 2 of everything from 18 to 10, my trunk was full...

[SpeedTriple44444]

I had too much stereo in my tempest back in the day... 2 alternators,

and 2 of everything from 18 to 10, my trunk was full...

what'd you say? WHAT DID YOU SAY!!!!????

[SAMBUSA]

I think he said that he like junk in his trunk. I dunno

[magley64]

I think he said that he like junk in his trunk. I dunno

I could fit no junk in my trunk, it was full...

WHAT!?!?!

true story: One time I had the gas tank fall out of my car, and didn't even realize there was a problem until a mile later when the bowls in the carbs emptied.

Edited July 28, 2010 by magley64

[Kahooli]

Why spend the time and money on 8". 2- 10s would hit harder and half the size. Just curious?

You are beyond help.

[alienpi]

yeah I'm more of a super clean sound than really loud and lots of bass guy now.

give me one good 12" or 10" sub like a solo X and a nice powerful Alpine amp for it and that's perfect to me.

Yeah, quality sound is much more important to me. An electrostatic or planar magnetic bass panel with negligible mass creates bass so clean that many people think that something's missing because they're used to the additional "woofer sound."

Alternatively, I'd choose something with at least servo control for quality.

[SpeedTriple44444]

Yeah, quality sound is much more important to me. An electrostatic or planar magnetic bass panel with negligible mass creates bass so clean that many people think that something's missing because they're used to the additional "woofer sound."

Alternatively, I'd choose something with at least servo control for quality.

I completely agree. I heard an electrostatic system with a servo controlled sub once, and it was beyond clean. Most of us are definitely used to hearing a lot of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion in our bass frequencies, which warms (muddies) up the sound. The system I heard was almost too clean. You felt the lowest frequencies as much as you heard them.

[alienpi]

I completely agree. I heard an electrostatic system with a servo controlled sub once, and it was beyond clean. Most of us are definitely used to hearing a lot of 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion in our bass frequencies, which warms (muddies) up the sound. The system I heard was almost too clean. You felt the lowest frequencies as much as you heard them.

I think once sound becomes this clean it loses the character of a speaker and becomes more realistic. Where as people can usually tell the difference between live and recorded, they expect a recorded sound, but hear the live. I think people that are used to live sound wouldn't notice it to be too clean.

[SpeedTriple44444]

I think once sound becomes this clean it loses the character of a speaker and becomes more realistic. Where as people can usually tell the difference between live and recorded, they expect a recorded sound, but hear the live. I think people that are used to live sound wouldn't notice it to be too clean.

I agree. I have played in bands for half my life, and know what live music sounds like. It does take a little getting used to once you hear it... it feels like the music is missing a little weight.

My first "audiophile" conversion experience was with a pair of electrostatics and a couple high power monoblock amps. I was 14 at the time. I had never heard music sound that clear and dynamic before. It's very difficult to get that with a dynamic cone type speaker. The servo sub has the same dramatic effect. Once you hear it, everything else sounds wrong.

The bigger problem in recorded music these days is the production (at least with popular music). It's SOOOO compressed, nothing sounds natural.

[rawlins87]

With how you guys are talking about electrostatic systems I feel like a kid who's never had Christmas (I've never heard one before)

[SpeedTriple44444]

With how you guys are talking about electrostatic systems I feel like a kid who's never had Christmas (I've never heard one before)

You really have to hear it sometime. They are the definition of clean and FAST. I wish I had some.

[alienpi]

With how you guys are talking about electrostatic systems I feel like a kid who's never had Christmas (I've never heard one before)

Here's a Quad electrostatic speaker dealer. http://www.donbetteraudio.com/

I usually go to Audible Elegance which I highly recommend visiting if you are in the area. Request a Magnepan demo if you want to hear what we are talking about. Magnepans are ribbon/quasi-ribbon/planar magnetic, but the speed and accuracy are very similar to electrostatics. Martin Logans are hybrid electrostatic speakers, so their bass frequencies aren't up to par with their speaker's high frequencies.

Edited July 28, 2010 by alienpi

[SpeedTriple44444]

Hey, Alienpi... what's your take on super audio cd? I personally love it.

[alienpi]

Hey, Alienpi... what's your take on super audio cd? I personally love it.

I have an extensive standard cd collection, so back in 2005 I acquired a Music Hall CD25. I upgraded this cd player to the max making it around a $1,000 cd player. Some say performance wise it competes with a player costing many thousands more. I'm not sure, but I have not felt like it's lacking in any way. Anyhow, it plays CDs very well and it plays HDCDs also. I have many HDCDs for demos, and I wish all of my cds were HDCDs.

I'd like to get a nice SACD player. I need to take my CD25 to some demos and have them swap it with some SACD players. I wish Jolida made a SACD player; that's what I'd like to have.

I think it'd be funny to watch the salesman hear my budget cd player sound unusually good relative to their reference player in cd playback. Of course I'm not going to mention all the upgrades.

[SpeedTriple44444]

That would be cool. What kind of mods? Different opamps, capacitors, etc.?

I picked up a Yamaha SACD / DVD player off of Amazon not too long ago, brand new, $80. It's not a bad sounding player for the money. It is a little edgy. I also have one of the first gen Sony SACD players... DVP-NS500V. Both are cheap units, but show the potential of SACD. Digital has never sounded so analog. You should pick something like that up just to try. You might be pleasantly surprised, even with some of the cheap players. One of these days I want to get an upconverting CD player... I hear good things about them.

[alienpi]

That would be cool. What kind of mods? Different opamps, capacitors, etc.?

I picked up a Yamaha SACD / DVD player off of Amazon not too long ago, brand new, $80. It's not a bad sounding player for the money. It is a little edgy. I also have one of the first gen Sony SACD players... DVP-NS500V. Both are cheap units, but show the potential of SACD. Digital has never sounded so analog. You should pick something like that up just to try. You might be pleasantly surprised, even with some of the cheap players. One of these days I want to get an upconverting CD player... I hear good things about them.

I don't remember all the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that there were at least.

Upgraded opamps

Upgraded clock

Vibration reduction foam installed throughout.

I'm thinking there were upgraded capacitors also, but I'm not sure.

This cd player made my cds come alive, it's quite extraordinary the difference.

I will have to find a cheap SACD player to try it out, because I really need to get with the times.

If I like the SACD player's CD playback, I might end up selling my CD25. It'll probably be later in the year once it starts getting cold that I will look into upgrading.

[SpeedTriple44444]

The only problem with SACD these days is that there are few mainstream releases. If you're into classical and jazz, there is a lot out there. I really like old Coltrane and Miles Davis on SACD, as well as the reissues of the living stereo classical recordings. Heck, even the cd layer of those sounds amazing! From what I've read, Bluray has uncompressed high resolution audio capability, so we should start seeing some music in that format.

Ahhh... forgot about the clock mods and damping. That's a very common thing to do. Also power supply mods. I remember looking into adding a "Kwak clock" circuit to one of my players. I haven't done too much on the digital side, but I do design and build amps / preamps / speakers. Maybe it's time to tear into that old Sony.

[alienpi]

Yeah, the lack of mainstream releases is definitely a concern. I like Diana Krall, and I actually use her cds as a demo, when people come over. Hair stands up on my arms everytime I do a demo, because it sounds like she is in the middle of my room. I can't imagine how much better the SACD sounds.

Based on the CD -> HDCD improvements I'd say that the soundstage would be huge. I bet instruments would be even more defined and live. I think what I need to get is a Universal Disc player that way I'm not restricted by the different formats.

There's a lot of music out there that I'd love to hear on the high resolution formats. Many of my favorite artists don't release anything but regular CDs. I'd love to hear the huge soundstage, loud guitars, spacious vocals fill my room even more than they do now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_jal2IKsEU