possible oil problem? hell idk...bike wont roll while shut off

[Steve Butters]

my bike was running low on oil so i topped it off and added way too much on accident...after that i started having this problem, so i did an oil change on it and it hasnt gone away so im stumped

heres my symptoms:

in the morning i roll down the driveway in reverse before starting the bike since i leave so early....well, when the bike isnt runnings, i have to like force it..it wont just rolls backwards i actually have to put effort into moving backwards down a sloped driveway

if i fire it up first, it immediately rolls with no problem at all

do i have too much oil in it? or could it be something else? didnt notice this problem until i overfilled the oil

but i had someone hold it up level for me while i checked the sight window and the oil is 3/4 of a way up between the two marks, so it appears the oil level is ok

also, even before i had this problem, if i pull in the clutch while its shut off, it was hard to move for the first initial push...ide have to sit on it and shove it forward real hard, and then its like it would break loose and start to roll freely

i havent tried rolling it around in neutral...i park in first and when i hop on in the morning i just put in the clutch and roll down the driveway then fire it up and go...ill try neutral tomorrow and see if it helps...but does anyone have any idea whats going on?

if the bike is running, it doesnt have any of these problems

[Steve Butters]

Yeah... if you have it in gear it won't want to roll backwards. Even with a spankin' fresh clutch it'll fight that' date=' but I imagine your clutch is a little closer to "not so fresh" than it is to "spankin' fresh".

(translation: everything is cool.)[/quote']

ok i was under the impression that with the clutch in, it would roll the same as neutral.....do you think its just a coincidence that its fighting me more now than it was before?

oh and my bikes a 97 with 21k miles...original clutch, so yea its not too fresh...but it doesnt slip or anything yet

and if its normal for it to not want to roll like that, why does it act differently with the bike running? (not questioning you, just looking for an explanation because i dont understand the mechanics of it)

Edited July 30, 2010 by Steve Butters

[JBartolucci4]

What kind of oil did you put in it? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I do remember something about if you don't use an oil that is designed for use in motorcycles you can damage the clutch?

[Steve Butters]

i use yamalube 10w40 and when i topped it off i used valvoline motorcycle oil 20w50 (its all they had for motorcycles at the speedway i stopped at after seeing my oil level light coming on under hard excel)

[Steve Butters]

I don't really think anything of it' date=' to tell you the truth. I wouldn't sweat it, man. If your clutch isn't slipping while you ride then don't worry about it... but, start setting dollars aside for a clutch.[/quote']

ok thanks a lot

i think my weekend project is going to be adjusting my shifter down...i miss a lot of gears with my shifter sitting so high..i know it cant be good for the clutch or the trans

[JBartolucci4]

Motorcycle crankcase oils are specially formulated for motorcycle applications that have wet clutches. Most automotive oils are not suitable for use in motorcycle engines. A premium quality motorcycle specific oil typically has higher levels of anti-wear chemistry such as zinc and phosphorus than some automotive oils do, which are critical in protecting high RPM and high load and engines from wear and especially cam lifters and follower wear. That is not to say that all motorcycle oils have increased levels of zinc and phosphorus; many do not.

Over the years, automotive manufacturers have requested oil manufacturers to reduce zinc, phosphorus (an essential element in ZDDP, Zinc Diethyl Dithiophosphate) and other extreme pressure additives from the oil. The primary reason is that automotive manufacturers have requested is that they are extending emissions systems warranties to periods of 10 years/150,000 miles and they claim that high concentrations of these chemical additives were contaminating their catalytic converters and negatively affecting emission levels required to meet their 10 yea/150,000 mile warranty requirements. There are also a few motorcycles on the market that have catalytic converters, however they are not subject to the same 10-year requirements as the automotive industry for emissions levels.

We recommend looking at the oil manufacturers specification sheet and performing a comparison. If they won’t provide the data a very simple spectrographic analysis lab test can be performed that will provide the exact PPM (parts per million) concentration of zinc, phosphorus and other chemicals. That is the only way to get accurate information. There is no reason why a reputable oil manufacturers customer technical service department should not have that data (as well as all the other ASTM test data references in this book) readily available for the consumer and if they do not we would be highly suspect as to why not and go out and get the data myself before I started using their oil.

Another issue with using an automotive type oil in a motorcycle with a wet clutch is that many automotive oils have friction modifiers. Friction modifiers in automotive oils tend to provide increased frictional reduction and offset a portion of the fuel economy lost when the U.S. Government mandated a reformulated gasoline for emissions requirements. However these friction modifiers can be detrimental to proper wet clutch operation and can cause slippage and other potential performance issues such as “engine start failures, a rough running feel and increased fuel consumption due to higher engine stall speeds”.

It is also important to note that there are automotive type oils that do not contain friction modifiers. You have no way of knowing unless the specific manufacturer tells you. That is why we say it is better to be safe and use a motorcycle specific oil in a motorcycle engine with a wet clutch that meets the proper motorcycle specification as stated in the next few paragraphs.

A premium quality motorcycle engine oil can be stated to meet the requirements of API Service Classification SJ, SH, SG, SF, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, CF and CD. Note that SH, SF, SG and CD are now obsolete. Motorcycles specifying an oil meeting any of the obsolete applications can use an oil with the newer classification oil because it includes, and supercedes, the requirements of the obsolete service classification.

For example, if you have an old motorcycle that specifies SE service classification you do not have to go out and look for an oil with that service classification (and if you did you would most likely not be able to find any in stores as SE was outdated in 1979). The newer classifications include the outdated ones and are perfectly suitable for use. There are some motorcycle oil manufacturers that will include an older service classification on the bottle to so that consumers can specifically see that the oil not only meets all the older specifications but the newer ones as well.

It is important to note that as an oil classification is superceded by a newer one, that the newer one provides improved benefits over the older one in such areas as high and low temperature deposits, wear, rust and corrosion for example and is perfectly suitable for use. All quality motorcycle specific oils should also carry the JASO Motorcycle Specifications, which are either the JASO-MA specification (no friction modifiers) or the JASO-MB specification (with friction modifiers). The JASO-MA rating specifies that no friction modifiers are used. Note that the JASO-MB motorcycle does have friction modifiers, but is designed for motorcycles thatspecify theJASO-MB specification.If the oil does not carry one of these specifications, even if the other specifications listed above are present, I recommend finding an oil that has the proper JASO specification clearly labeled on the bottle.

So not sure if the "wet clutch" thing applies to you but I knew I heard that somewhere.

[Steve Butters]

^ my oil is motorcycle oil...

and i topped off with

[chevysoldier]

Run 15w-40 diesel oil in it. the high detergents will clean it up. then use synthetic in the recommended weight.

[JBartolucci4]

Oh, Ok you used motorcycle oil, I didn't know that til you put up those pics. lol, no I was typing that message and reading that article when you posted that, I didn't see it until I had already posted.

[Steve Butters]

Run 15w-40 diesel oil in it. the high detergents will clean it up. then use synthetic in the recommended weight.

i was told to not use synthetic in the vmax since it was designed in 85 and is meant to run dino oil?

its kinda taboo on the vmax boards...but i might give the disel oil a shot on my next oil change

someone on vmax site said this

sounds like clutch plates just sticking to the oil between the plates while the engine is cold(oil between the plates causes a suction while the engine is cold. it doesn't do it after you start the motor because it slings the oil out, and allowes the clutch plats to slide freely.

that also makes sense...so im not gonna worry about it, but i may try and clean it up a little bit with the diesel oil next change

can i run the diesel for a full cycle or would it be best to run it for only a few hundred miles and change it out?

[jporter12]

Run 15w-40 diesel oil in it. the high detergents will clean it up. then use synthetic in the recommended weight.

A 15w40 that is JASO certified for motorcycles. Shell Rotella-T is one such oil.

Tyler, it sounds like your bike has a wet clutch, and they tend to stick after sitting for a while. On my 250, it's practically impossible to break it free, or even crank the engine with it in gear.

[Steve Butters]

A 15w40 that is JASO certified for motorcycles. Shell Rotella-T is one such oil.

Tyler, it sounds like your bike has a wet clutch, and they tend to stick after sitting for a while. On my 250, it's practically impossible to break it free, or even crank the engine with it in gear.

oh yea... i forgot to mention that in the morning after its been sitting for 18 hours, when i try to crank it over in gear, it kinda rolls forward a little bit on me lol

it makes sense now...guess i didnt understand fully how the clutch works on this bike

[ironbuttwannabe]

oh yea... i forgot to mention that in the morning after its been sitting for 18 hours, when i try to crank it over in gear, it kinda rolls forward a little bit on me lol

it makes sense now...guess i didnt understand fully how the clutch works on this bike

normal. KLR does the same thing, especially with heavy-weight oil. I try to have it in Neutral when starting all the time. Especially in the winter

[RSVDon]

...nazi propaganda...

Meh. Been using 15w-50 Mobil1 car oil for the past 12,000 miles. I'll let you know when the clutch finally slips or it sends a piston through my nutsack.

[jporter12]

i was told to not use synthetic in the vmax since it was designed in 85 and is meant to run dino oil?

its kinda taboo on the vmax boards...but i might give the disel oil a shot on my next oil change

someone on vmax site said this

that also makes sense...so im not gonna worry about it, but i may try and clean it up a little bit with the diesel oil next change

can i run the diesel for a full cycle or would it be best to run it for only a few hundred miles and change it out?

The 15w40 is supposed to better all around. From what I've read, one of the things that beats up the oil in a motorcycle is the transmission gears meshing together. The diesel oil is supposed to be able to stand up to the abuse better.

This article is where I got some info from, amongst other sources:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

It's a lengthy read, but some good info.