Finally, Harley can focus on it's core!

[cmh_sprint]

From what I read, HD bought MV to access their European Dealer Network. I believe they were counting on the XR1200 (initially only a Euro bike) being a hit. It's been a flop.

So...they incurred $125 million is costs to close Buell, plus they decided to forgo the $$ from BRP who was trying to buy Buell. Then they sell MV for $1 and are still keeping some of MV's debt. During this time, they borrowed $500 million from the US gov't & then more money from Warren Buffet. Like monkeys fucking a football. WOW!!!

I didn't know BRP was trying to buy Buell. That would have been a great fit. BRP is a great company IMO. I've been buying there products for 10 years and never had an issue with a dealer or product.

[RFM]

I didn't know BRP was trying to buy Buell. That would have been a great fit. BRP is a great company IMO. I've been buying there products for 10 years and never had an issue with a dealer or product.

Bombardier is part of the group that makes Rotax engines. It would have been a perfect fit. Aside from the wankers in HD of course....

[Tpoppa]

BRP first tried to buy all of Buell. HD said no (I can understand HD wanting to keep control of the XB motors). BRP then tried to buy the rights to jus the Rotox powered Buells. Again, HD said no. BRP even hinted that they would move the Can Am Spyder production to the Buell factory in WI.

HD could have sold Buell. HD could have saved 200 American jobs. More if you count vendors

[InyaAzz]

...don't get me started on HD...

[cmh_sprint]

Bombardier is part of the group that makes Rotax engines. It would have been a perfect fit. Aside from the wankers in HD of course....

I love the Rotax engines in my sleds.

[SpeedTriple44444]

FUCK HD! i love my bike but, when a stealership has to special order parts that they should carry in inventory is BS!! outsoursing parts overseas BS. HD appearel made in china, indonesa, maylasia and pakastan BS. $450 for a leather jacket BS. (i paid $150.00 online for the same jacket without the brand name) streamlining production to save money BS, while still overpricing finished products by thousands BS. rehashing a sportster every year as a new model BS. the most modern technology that they have will be discontinued in the near future. after this bike i have now, i won't buy another. FUCK HD... alright i'm done ranting.

That's the reality of staying in business. What's BS is the marketing department and every redneck loser flaunting them as the only "American" motorcycle, and therefore the only one worth riding. How many of you that ride Jap, Italian, or English bikes would do that? Of course, BMW guys are a little different, so I'll exclude them.

[SpeedTriple44444]

Bombardier is part of the group that makes Rotax engines. It would have been a perfect fit. Aside from the wankers in HD of course....

so true...they absolutely fucked up on that one. I think it was a pride thing. They couldn't sell the company to someone that was able to make it a success. Buell was juuuuussssst starting to make the right kind of motorcycle when they pulled the plug.

About the Rocket III...

I love Triumphs, but I've heard the same thing about that- it's a pig. Hell, it looks like they stole the engine from an old truck and sandwiched it into a bike frame. The redline is at 4750, if I remember right. I don't know about you, but I like something with a huge powerband, not a tractor. I think this is one that looks impressive on paper, but the actual execution isn't that appealing.

[Kritz]

My American made HD.

Wheels say "Made in Australia

Front forks are Showa(Japan)

Brakes are Italian(Brembo)

Revo engine was designed in Germany(Porsche)

Battery is a Yuasa

I think the bolts are made here though as they keep falling out.

[SpeedTriple44444]

And there's nothing wrong with having the parts made offshore... Showa, Brembo, Yuasa... all make a good product. It's the superiority complex that pisses me off. They've really got their loyal customers snowed.

[Tpoppa]

HD's most profitable product line is made almost entirely outside of the US.

[AOW]

My American made HD.

Wheels say "Made in Australia

Front forks are Showa(Japan)

Brakes are Italian(Brembo)

Revo engine was designed in Germany(Porsche)

Battery is a Yuasa

I think the bolts are made here though as they keep falling out.

hmm, another VROD owner! Loctite is your friend!

HD's most profitable product line is made almost entirely outside of the US.

actually, their most profitable product line is their clothing which is 100% made outside the USA. HD, an American legacy made in Mexico, and Taiwan, and China, and anywhere else not located in the USA..

a " to you HD. Good job on getting rid of the two parts of your company that gave you any hope of producing 21st century technology bikes.

[RFM]

Really would like to forward the thread to the folks at HD. We were it's demographic. Only not the ones it wanted to focus on anymore.

[Tpoppa]

Repost, but fitting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzlN2zC8PU[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izzlN2zC8PU][/ame]

[RFM]

I think Harley's goal was to avoid taxes at all costs. In addition to the $120 million write down to shutter Buell, it took another $162.6 million write down with the purchase and operational upgrades to MV Augusta. This, and they put another $20 million in operational funds in an escrow account to be used in the first year with the Castiglioni Brothers again. All for a repurchase price under the cost of a Guinness.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/08/10/did-harley-davidson-have-to-pay-buyer-to-unload-its-sport-bike-unit/

It's going to take a lot of T-Shirts and orange and black suspenders to undo those epic fuck ups. Keith, you idiot.

[cmh_sprint]

$300M in epic failure and he will still leave HD someday with a significant golden parachute. Between him and the HD Board of Directors, they could give Ringling Bros. A run for the worlds biggest clown show. No wonder they are pressuring the union to help them save millions.

[dorifto240]

That's the reality of staying in business. What's BS is the marketing department and every redneck loser flaunting them as the only "American" motorcycle, and therefore the only one worth riding. How many of you that ride Jap, Italian, or English bikes would do that? Of course, BMW guys are a little different, so I'll exclude them.

There was an article in some motorcycle magazine from a few years back that mentions that very idea of Harley being the only American motorcycle. It mentions that,at the time, the Indian name was up for sale for a completely ludicrously cheap price and that the only motorcycle name that might be able to out "brand" Harley right now (or ever) is Indian. Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, or whomever could buy the Indian brand, spin it as reviving an American legend, and start marketing their superior quality under a superior name.

Cutting Buell and not selling it, from a purely competition stand point is smart. Like GM holding on to Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, and Oldsmobile and not selling Saab to Koenigsegg smart. Buell was developing an edgy reputation (and a great price point)that would have made it a threat to Harley's own line,especially tired Sportster and lackluster V-Rod

In the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, Buell would be deadly. Look at the Ronin from MAGPUL, as the start to what that setup is capable of. Imagine if someone like Arlen Ness bought Buell and turned out a few production models. Suddenly Harley is facing a contender with some serious weight, and it's too big and set to fight back.

Good for the biking world? No.Good for Harley? Yes. The board at least.

[Tpoppa]

.

Cutting Buell and not selling it, from a purely competition stand point is smart. Like GM holding on to Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, and Oldsmobile and not selling Saab to Koenigsegg smart.

Keep in mind with Pontiac, Saturn, and Oldsmobile there was really nothing to sell. They we the same GM platforms with different sheet metal. GM tried like hell to sell Hummer and Saab has been sold. It makes business sense to cash out on an unused asset.

There were all kinds of rumors of underhandedness in HD's treatment of Buell and personal vendettas. The May Cycle World lists many of them. I do think HD percieved another US manufactuer as a future threat, even though Uly is the only Buell model that even sorta completes with any HD model. Perhaps when Erik Buell's non disclosure/non comnpete expires he will reveal some of what really happened.

I still have a hard time with HD's All American marketing angle, when they could have easily saved lots of American jobs, but chose not to.

[RFM]

Any idea when the non compete ends?

[Tpoppa]

Any idea when the non compete ends?

I've seen Feb/2011 a few times. Not sure if that is true.

Interviews with Geoff May and Erik Buell have already hinted at a limited production run of street legal 2011 1190Rs.

[cmh_sprint]

I've seen Feb/2011 a few times. Not sure if that is true.

Interviews with Geoff May and Erik Buell have already hinted at a limited production run of street legal 2011 1190Rs.

I wonder if the non-complete does end in 6 months if BRP will be backing EB. Seems like it would make sense. BRP would save money over what they were offering HD for the Buell brand, they have the solid relationship with ROTAX to develop a new engine platform. Most of all they are a progressive company that is willing to take risks.

[dorifto240]

Keep in mind with Pontiac, Saturn, and Oldsmobile there was really nothing to sell. They we the same GM platforms with different sheet metal. GM tried like hell to sell Hummer and Saab has been sold. It makes business sense to cash out on an unused asset.

There were all kinds of rumors of underhandedness in HD's treatment of Buell and personal vendettas. The May Cycle World lists many of them. I do think HD percieved another US manufactuer as a future threat, even though Uly is the only Buell model that even sorta completes with any HD model. Perhaps when Erik Buell's non disclosure/non comnpete expires he will reveal some of what really happened.

I still have a hard time with HD's All American marketing angle, when they could have easily saved lots of American jobs, but chose not to.

True on the American jobs statement.

What I meant to highlight with the GM statement, was plenty of companies were turned down. In the case of Hummer, GM was being difficult in negotiations. With Saturn, they walked out on Penske. The names in GMs lineup that could, under the right management, out hustle GM; GM doesn't want to let go of.

Buell had the potential to poach riders from Harley's money making line.

[SpeedTriple44444]

Buell had the potential to poach riders from Harley's money making line.

I don't see how that would work. Harley is committed to making overpriced tractors, and Buell was becoming competitive in the supersport market. I still think it was more about ego than dollars and sense. They didn't want to see anyone succeed where they couldn't.

[Tpoppa]

I don't see how that would work. Harley is committed to making overpriced tractors, and Buell was becoming competitive in the supersport market. I still think it was more about ego than dollars and sense. They didn't want to see anyone succeed where they couldn't.

True or not...some at HD believed the the Uly was pulling sales from the HD baggers.

"They didn't want to see anyone succeed where they couldn't," I tend to agree with that.

If I was Erik, and had gotten royally screwed over...In addition to making sportbikes, I would give some real thought to an American Sport Tourer that could put a dent in HD bagger sales.

[Kritz]

Interestingly enough Harley has made 141 million dollar profit(through 2 quarters) despite the recession.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/6262/fewer_workers_bigger_profits--and_endless_recession/

[RFM]

Either a shell game, or a lot of t-shirts!