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Finally, Harley can focus on it's core!


RFM

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I don't see how that would work. Harley is committed to making overpriced tractors, and Buell was becoming competitive in the supersport market. I still think it was more about ego than dollars and sense. They didn't want to see anyone succeed where they couldn't.

You and I see them as over-priced tractors. But Buell was becoming competitive in the super sport market by stealing away younger Harley guys. Guys who would have picked up a sportster or other "entry" Harley were looking at Buells. Guys who wanted something "American" weren't financing a $24,000 Harley, they were going after a $12,000 Ulysses or $9,000 Lightnings.

It's not like the majority of the super sport crowd was walking into Harley/Buell dealerships. Harley guys were and those of us intelligent to see a good bike.

Of course, if there was backstabbing and politicking going on in Harley, then any slowing in Harley sales and an upswing in Buell sales would be highlighted as poaching.

Either way, it sucks for Buell, but all of the Buell lovers should be able to pick up new bikes on the cheap in a year or so.

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You and I see them as over-priced tractors. But Buell was becoming competitive in the super sport market by stealing away younger Harley guys. Guys who would have picked up a sportster or other "entry" Harley were looking at Buells. Guys who wanted something "American" weren't financing a $24,000 Harley, they were going after a $12,000 Ulysses or $9,000 Lightnings.

It's not like the majority of the super sport crowd was walking into Harley/Buell dealerships.

.

I guess I hadn't considered that. The bikes are so different (other than the ones with the Harley motors). The newer bikes were real sport bikes... the Rotax motors were worlds ahead of the Harley stuff.

I think they really screwed up from a marketing standpoint. First of all, they needed to get some brand separation from Harley to attract riders like you and me. I have been into a Harley dealership 1 time, and that was enough for me.

Also, why didn't they use the Porsche designed V-rod motor in a sport chassis? I can't get my head around that one.

And, who really cares if they sell more Buells? The money is all going back to the same company. Or, are you saying that they sell the Harley branded models at a premium, and the margin wasn't as good on the Buells?

I can't wait to see what Eric Buell does after his non-compete is finished. I hope he sticks it to them big time.

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Also keep in mind that a major factor in people not buying Buells was the fact that their channel for service and parts was a Harley dealer, and it's pretty well known what most Harley dealers felt about Buell riders. If Buells even just moved to another type of dealership, be it their own or partnered with Bombardier or whatever, even without model changes necessary from not being part of HD anymore I think they would have been a much bigger player.

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Also keep in mind that a major factor in people not buying Buells was the fact that their channel for service and parts was a Harley dealer, and it's pretty well known what most Harley dealers felt about Buell riders. If Buells even just moved to another type of dealership, be it their own or partnered with Bombardier or whatever, even without model changes necessary from not being part of HD anymore I think they would have been a much bigger player.
Speaking for myself after riding sport bikes for 25 years, I never considered a Buell. I always viewed them as very low quality and underpowered. The 1125R was the first one that appealed to me but by then my knees were shot..
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Also, why didn't they use the Porsche designed V-rod motor in a sport chassis? I can't get my head around that one.

That motor began as a Buell project. HD took it over because "Buell shouldn't have a better motor than HD." When HD took it over it became too heavy for a spotbike application.

Also keep in mind that a major factor in people not buying Buells was the fact that their channel for service and parts was a Harley dealer, and it's pretty well known what most Harley dealers felt about Buell riders. If Buells even just moved to another type of dealership, be it their own or partnered with Bombardier or whatever, even without model changes necessary from not being part of HD anymore I think they would have been a much bigger player.

+1000 I've owned 3 Buells. The downside of owning a Buell is the dealer support. Most dealerships (WRHD in Mentor is an exception), barely tolerate the sportbike crowd. No parts in stock & barely any gear or accessories that would be of any use to a sportbike rider.

HD mechanics are good at installing chrome...handling modern technology...not so much.

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And, who really cares if they sell more Buells? The money is all going back to the same company. Or, are you saying that they sell the Harley branded models at a premium, and the margin wasn't as good on the Buells?

Exactly! You figure the bikes cost about the same to build, but one will sell for $24,000 and one for $9,000.

But you're right about the dealership and service separation. Had they run it more like Saturn; we might not be having this discussion.

The V-Rod in a sport bike frame would be amazing. That might be my next project

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Exactly! You figure the bikes cost about the same to build, but one will sell for $24,000 and one for $9,000.

But you're right about the dealership and service separation. Had they run it more like Saturn; we might not be having this discussion.

The V-Rod in a sport bike frame would be amazing. That might be my next project

Even though the money would go back to the same big pot at the end of the day, it is all about ego, vanity and the old school Harley image. IMO, these 3 items will be then end of or severely weaken Harley at some point. The market is changing and Harley isn't keeping up. Even though they are making money, I'm sure their annual financial report is a pretty good read to see where the money is truly coming from.

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The V-Rod in a sport bike frame would be amazing. That might be my next project

It's been tried. The motor is too heavy and to large. You'll wind up with a overweight bike with a wheel base that's too long for real sportbike capabilities.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/25/roehr-motorcycles-v-rod-powered-v-roehr-1130/

425lbs DRY. 56" wheelbase 1130cc

http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/specs.html

432lbs DRY 56" 1250cc w/supercharger (HP number is impressive)

I don't believe any Roehrs actually made it beyond prototype. Last I heard, they were moving to electric bikes.

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It's been tried. The motor is too heavy and to large. You'll wind up with a overweight bike with a wheel base that's too long for real sportbike capabilities.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/25/roehr-motorcycles-v-rod-powered-v-roehr-1130/

425lbs DRY. 56" wheelbase 1130cc

http://www.roehrmotorcycles.com/specs.html

432lbs DRY 56" 1250cc w/supercharger (HP number is impressive)

I don't believe any Roehrs actually made it beyond prototype. Last I heard, they were moving to electric bikes.

That's not much different than my 87 Ninja 750.

It wouldn't be something as crazy as a GSX-R or ZX-6, but maybe more in line with a BMW sport tourer or sport cruiser....

I wouldn't do a production line, but maybe a one off would be cool

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A one off custom would be cool.

That 425lbs dry weight is with some exotic materials to shave weight elsewhere. Probably doesn't include weight of tires, battery, brake pads, etc. My guess is the Roehr was well over 500lbs at the curb.

I saw photos of a 1 off V Rod bagger. It makes you wonder why HD doesn't make one.

ZJATWMGDW8M24VTYNS.jpg

Edited by Tpoppa
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A one off custom would be cool.

That 425lbs dry weight is with some exotic materials to shave weight elsewhere. Probably doesn't include weight of tires, battery, brake pads, etc. My guess is the Roehr was well over 500lbs at the curb.

I saw photos of a 1 off V Rod bagger. It makes you wonder why HD doesn't make one.

ZJATWMGDW8M24VTYNS.jpg

1)Something that nice could take on Goldwing. Don't know why they wouldn't offer that

Oh wait, it's Harley!

2) I was thinking exactly the same thing. Carbon fiber, titanium, aluminum, lightweight rider.

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The biggest problem with the Revo is a lack of low end torque needed for heavier baggers. They'd need to re tune it or build a bigger one. This is a typical conversion here.

thunder1.jpg

Edited by Kritz
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