Justified, or not?

[Casper]

I'm kinda shocked at this thread and the opinions within it, especially knowing how many of you are opposed to taxes, social safety nets, and the "liberalization" of America.

Where are the hardcore preachers of capitalism and personal responsibility/accountability now?

Yeah, I really don't see anything wrong here. They chose not to pay the fee to have fire protection. If I don't pay my electric bill and it gets turned off, I'm not going to be whining and crying about it. Pay your bills and you won't have a problem. It's $75/yr. I bet they pay more than that per month for car insurance, cell phone, etc. Now they're going to bitch and whine about not getting a service they didn't pay for. Come on, seriously?

I didn't stutter.

[Steve Butters]

Agreed. If there are lives at risk, do whatever it takes to help.

^ orly?

Edited October 6, 2010 by Steve Butters

[Casper]

^ orly?

Then let it burn down. Yes really. That's just being human. Help your fellow man when you can. That has nothing to do with government, taxes, religion, etc.

[Disclaimer]

I wasn't necessarily directing that at you... but, even the electric bill is a horrible example. People who can't afford electricity can still have it kept on if they have medical emergencies. Why is that fair either?

Let the market "deal with" the problem... shut their electric off and let them freeze to death, or move to a warmer climate area. Why is that not a viable solution? It's not my family or friends that'll have that happen to, so why do I care? C'mon you tea party capitalists, who's with me!?

PS. Being human has EVERYTHING to do with how the economy and government are structured...

[Casper]

I wasn't necessarily directing that at you... but, even the electric bill is a horrible example. People who can't afford electricity can still have it kept on if they have medical emergencies. Why is that fair either?

Let the market "deal with" the problem... shut their electric off and let them freeze to death, or move to a warmer climate area. Why is that not a viable solution? It's not my family or friends that'll have that happen to, so why do I care? C'mon you tea party capitalists, who's with me!?

I agree. If I have to pay my bills, everyone else should as well. On the same note, I think welfare and free healthcare needs to go away. The government should not cover the bill for anyone for any reason.

Now with that said, I believe this is where charity steps in. If someone needs help, I have no problem with a charity picking up slack for them. That's what OMC does. We raise money for the Children's Hospital Foundation, the portion of the hospital that pays the bills for people who can't. It isn't the government paying the bill, it's a charity helping those in need. Instead of my taxes paying it, what I choose to donate pays for it.

[Disclaimer]

I've decided that anyone who isn't as valuable as me (i.e. not making the same salary or greater) isn't contributing their fair share to society, so why should I be charitable to them? The fact that they can't pay their bills is of no consequence to me... they should've worked harder, or been born less disabled, or not been blind.

[Casper]

PS. Being human has EVERYTHING to do with how the economy and government are structured...

You really believe that????

[Casper]

I've decided that anyone who isn't as valuable as me (i.e. not making the same salary or greater) isn't contributing their fair share to society, so why should I be charitable to them? The fact that they can't pay their bills is of no consequence to me... they should've worked harder, or been born less disabled, or not been blind.

And that's where I say karma is a motherfucker. I firmly believe what goes around comes around. I help anybody and everybody whenever I can. More often than not, when I'm in need, somebody is there to help me out. If not, then I deal with it.

[Disclaimer]

How many people richer than you have had karma bite them in the ass? How many do you know that've had that "fall from grace"? I bet very very very few.

It's been documented that, typically, the more money you make, the less charitable you are when based on a percentage of your income (http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/05/27/new-study-shows-poor-give-greater-percent-of-income-to-charity/)

[Casper]

How many people richer than you have had karma bite them in the ass? How many do you know that've had that "fall from grace"? I bet very very very few.

It's been documented that, typically, the more money you make, the less charitable you are when based on a percentage of your income (http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/05/27/new-study-shows-poor-give-greater-percent-of-income-to-charity/)

Yet, the United States has the highest percentage of charitable private donors of any other country.

[Steve Butters]

And that's where I say karma is a motherfucker. I firmly believe what goes around comes around. I help anybody and everybody whenever I can. More often than not, when I'm in need, somebody is there to help me out. If not, then I deal with it.

what does karma have to do with his post? and i hope youre kidding - you believe other people to be less than you due to making less money or being disabled? karma from a past life? you hindu or something?

sorry - i just dont see the connection between your post and jrmmiii's hopefully sarcastic post....jrmmiii, if you really feel that way, you need to step back and take a look at yourself before judging everyone else

[Casper]

what does karma have to do with his post? and i hope youre kidding - you believe other people to be less than you due to making less money or being disabled? karma from a past life? you hindu or something?

sorry - i just dont see the connection between your post and jrmmiii's hopefully sarcastic post....jrmmiii, if you really feel that way, you need to step back and take a look at yourself before judging everyone else

Reading comprehension owned you. I was saying karma would bite him for thinking that way about people. I believe in helping anybody you can.

[Disclaimer]

That didn't answer the question... and misses the point.

[MidgetTodd]

I hate it when facts and logic get brought into debates.

[Disclaimer]

I was saying karma would bite him for thinking that way about people. I believe in helping anybody you can.

I'm just taking this to an extreme, everything I say has undertones of sarcasm, c'mon -- I'm the token labeled "liberal" on here remember?

Welfare helps people, does it not? What if we just changed the name from that icky "welfare" word, and called it "charity"? Would that make everyone feel better?

[Steve Butters]

How many do you know that've had that "fall from grace"? I bet very very very few.

i know a family that has, and theyre hard working good people...it had nothing to do with "karma"...when the economy went down they felt the hit hard...went from making 250k a yr to barely 25k

[Casper]

I'm just taking this to an extreme... welfare helps people, does it not? What if we just changed the name from that icky "welfare" word, and called it "charity"? Would that make everyone feel better?

If it isn't funded by taxes (or mandatory donations) and isn't ran by the government (fed, state, etc... maybe local), then yes. That's exactly what I want.

The flip side would be to give it to the states. It isn't in the Constitution, so leave it to the states. If Ohio wants a welfare program, let it tax the citizens of Ohio to fund it. However, let the citizens of Ohio vote on it. Then, if it passes, and I don't like it, I am more than willing to move somewhere that is more in line with my political views.

[Steve Butters]

Reading comprehension owned you. I was saying karma would bite him for thinking that way about people. I believe in helping anybody you can.

this makes more sense now lol

[Disclaimer]

And the gov't lets you do that... you can reduce your tax liability through charity.

[Disclaimer]

But we're getting off topic now... lets go back to the $75...

Is charging $75/yr extra in taxes ok, or not?

Is charging that $75/yr as a gov't fee ok, or not?

Should fire rescue be privatized?

These answers are important because fire rescue does MORE than just firefighting... maybe it's an a la carte thing? $75 to respond to your fire, $150 to respond to your vehicle accident, $10 to respond to 'cats in trees', etc... ALL must be paid in advance. Like insurance.

Same thing with health care, should you pay 'X' dollars ahead of time to guarantee you care? Put you on a list, or wear a bracelet that says you're paid up and should be treated?

[jblosser]

I know that the City of Columbus charges a fee if the emergency squad comes to your house, don't know if they charge you for a fire run.

Not really sure why the fee is charged (other than a way to increase revenue), but I'm going to do some intarwebs searching.

[BiggO]

fuck that...glad our smoke detectors just make noise instead of alert the firefighters

Keep in mind, part of it was her fault too. The monitoring company called the house, but she was reseting the fire alarm to get it to stop, when the smoke was still in the house. So it kept going off and kept calling in the alarms. So the monitoring company was getting a busy signal when they called the house. Next thing she knows the fire department was outside.

She should have not reset it, and made sure to talk to the monitoring company. She could have even called on her cell, to make sure that the fire department wasn't dispatched.

[2Wheeler]

Where I live I pay roughly $350 a year for fire protaction in my property taxes, plus $120 per year on my Homeowners insurance. If my home catches fire and the FD showes up I will be billed milage, fuel and hourly whether I called them or not.

Most fire departments have a policy of containing fires rather than extinguishing them anyway.

[swingset]

Total non-story. If the firefighters would have fought the fire anyway, the system collapses. No one will pay if they'll put your fire out for free. And, if they take pay on the spot, no one pays until their house catches on fire.

This is a city FD fighting fires in the county, for a fee. Want protection? Pay. I guess I can't possibly understand any feeling to the contrary. If the citizens don't like the system, lobby for a fire levy or tax.

Retarded that this is even controversial or newsworthy.

[Disclaimer]

This is a city FD fighting fires in the county, for a fee. Want protection? Pay. I guess I can't possibly understand any feeling to the contrary. If the citizens don't like the system, lobby for a fire levy or tax.

Yea, pay or you're sleeping with the fishes see.

Sorry, I didn't have time to photoshop a fire engine into the background.