Moto-Brian Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 A pair of Nike shoes that sell for $95 aren't that expensive due to labour. Vietnam makes them for fractions of that. Having them made domestically wouldn't necessarily double the retail, but double the cost and cut in on profit...Also, this effort by HD is an attempt to make inroads into the Indain market. That there is growth...Actually, it has everything to do with the dollar. Making things in China or similar allows companies a great way to manage QC. Some countries create an issue with getting QC done. Pakistan is an example. Americans don't travel to Pakistan and even though leather products (as an example) might have started to be made in Pakistan, the QC issues that arise from that causes major issues and the cost increase in having them made in China is better overall...Again, the cost of production in the US would be at least double. If not more. The cost of tee shirt production is crazy cheap in China or Vietnam. US tee shirt is expensive for the tee made in the US and then to have a company screen print it is higher, also.It's pretty simple. The amount per hour labor is a base to look at just in a simplistic way. Look at minimum wage here and labor wages in China... Gotta pay for people to do the work. Cost is high. Labor has everything to do with it. You have to cover the labor to create the product. Profit is certainly lowered on both accounts. The manufacturer loses profit and then raises dealer cost which raises retail. Retail on that Nike $95 pair of shoes would have to be closer to $200 to make the same margins on all accounts... Ain;t gonna happen, folks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 There's no HD stigma over there.I've never seen an Indian guy have tassles or assless chaps.Has nothing to do with what the market is in India... It's solely based on production costs to keep things more in line and to create a product that has a manageable cost of production... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) You can't tell me that inroads into another HUGE market for < 4 wheel travel wasn't SOME factor in that decision. Even if it was just a bonus to production costs. India may be the Low Cost Country right this second, but it may not be in the future so the execs @ HD better have more thought into it than "It's cheap".Our LCC source used to be China, until you figure out that people are willing to pay 4%+ than the current price to ensure they have the part in a couple days from Mexico rather than a couple weeks from Asia.Don't even get me started on expedited freight costs, that'll eat away most, if not more than most of your country sourcing strategy. Another aspect of business people often neglect - Intellectual property. Good luck keeping your design YOURS in China. We had a company shipping knockoff parts before WE were even setup to ship parts out from China. Edited November 9, 2010 by JRMMiii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) HD jumping into the Indian market mostly because the Japanese and Korean and Euro manufacturers are making inroads there. The difference is, everyone else is selling scooters, basically of max displacement 250cc. I think India currently has a limit of 500cc for two wheelers (Enfield). Not sure how HD is dealing with that. I expect the optional plan is simply to assemble them there and export them. Made from parts from all over the world other than the US. Same as the plant in Brazil. If you don't already realize, basically only the engine is made in the USA. And some of those smaller engine parts aren't made in the USA. And yes, that's now happening to everything we buy. Welcome to the global market.edit: Plus, like I've said before, India is expected to surpass China in manufacturing and export volume rather soon. Edited November 9, 2010 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh_sprint Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Good news for the company I work for. We are providing all the telecomm services for HD in India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Are you Peggy?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lzz8KER520&feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh_sprint Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Are you Peggy? Nope, just Peggy's boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSB67 Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Chill out. They're assembling there for the Indian market. It's called localization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 You can't tell me that inroads into another HUGE market for < 4 wheel travel wasn't SOME factor in that decision. Even if it was just a bonus to production costs. India may be the Low Cost Country right this second, but it may not be in the future so the execs @ HD better have more thought into it than "It's cheap".Our LCC source used to be China, until you figure out that people are willing to pay 4%+ than the current price to ensure they have the part in a couple days from Mexico rather than a couple weeks from Asia.Don't even get me started on expedited freight costs, that'll eat away most, if not more than most of your country sourcing strategy. Another aspect of business people often neglect - Intellectual property. Good luck keeping your design YOURS in China. We had a company shipping knockoff parts before WE were even setup to ship parts out from China.You are right to a degree based on the two wheel industry, but there is more than motorcycles being built there. Lots more... But to answer your question, the population in India is crazy obviously and to gain some market share there would certainly be a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Chill out. They're assembling there for the Indian market. It's called localization.Oh, it goes beyond India... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGTL GRL Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Why not? If it were Bush, we'd all blame him. +REP as in Reputation..NOT Republican. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Will 115 lb riders want 700 lb hogs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaf Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Will 115 lb riders want 700 lb hogs?Check my avatar. I took the shot when I was in India on business last year. This seems to be the sort of bike of choice for the Indian rider. Probably because the average worker makes the equivalent of $1000 per year. The traffic situation there doesn't bode well for Hardleys there either. Traffic in India is a real trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh_sprint Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Will 115 lb riders want 700 lb hogs?Of course they will, it's India and they can't ride 700lb Kaw's. That would go against Hinduism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YSR_Racer_99 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 and in India, will they call them Hogs? Oh wait, its the cows that are sacred, right? My bad. Carry on. Like dust in the wind. My wayward son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenTwelve Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Check my avatar. I took the shot when I was in India on business last year. This seems to be the sort of bike of choice for the Indian rider. Probably because the average worker makes the equivalent of $1000 per year. The traffic situation there doesn't bode well for Hardleys there either. Traffic in India is a real trip.Plus, I was just talking to an Indian kid a week or so ago and he was telling me they don't really import anything over 250. I don't know if that's law or what. So, Harleys will be a culture shock. Oh, and yeah Indian traffic, Indian climate and an air-cooled twin sound like a recipe for disaster. I could see Harleys possibly selling well in China actually where they're in love with things big and American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Plus, I was just talking to an Indian kid a week or so ago and he was telling me they don't really import anything over 250. I don't know if that's law or what. So, Harleys will be a culture shock. Oh, and yeah Indian traffic, Indian climate and an air-cooled twin sound like a recipe for disaster. I could see Harleys possibly selling well in China actually where they're in love with things big and American. If the motor vehicle laws are anything like Shanghai, no, they won't. Licensing for motorcycles is determined by the engine displacement, much like India seems to be. As I recall, 250cc is the largest they will go that's economical, anything else and you're venturing into some very expensive territory. Take that plus the absolute crushing amount of scooters/electric mopeds/traffic in general and you won't see a formation of Harleys anytime soon on Shanghai roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I eat massive amounts of spaghetti. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenTwelve Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 If the motor vehicle laws are anything like Shanghai, no, they won't. Licensing for motorcycles is determined by the engine displacement, much like India seems to be. As I recall, 250cc is the largest they will go that's economical, anything else and you're venturing into some very expensive territory. Take that plus the absolute crushing amount of scooters/electric mopeds/traffic in general and you won't see a formation of Harleys anytime soon on Shanghai roads.Yeah, makes sense. Should be interesting actually to see how it plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Yeah, makes sense. Should be interesting actually to see how it plays out.I agree.I don't know if there's a line between higher displacement motorcycles and cars, but for cars/trucks, in order to get a license plate you either have to a) be lucky enough to get one direct from the government when they release a yearly quota of them, at a fixed cost of about US$4000 a piece or b) buy one from the open market, at a variable cost of much more than US$4000. Every car I saw had the license plate practically riveted to the back of the car. Trucks/commercial vehicles had the license plate numbers painted onto the rear gates. Electric mopeds/scooters below 250cc either don't have this kind of restriction, or the plates are much cheaper to obtain.Still, with the tacked on cost of at least US$4000, there are cars everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenTwelve Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I agree.I don't know if there's a line between higher displacement motorcycles and cars, but for cars/trucks, in order to get a license plate you either have to a) be lucky enough to get one direct from the government when they release a yearly quota of them, at a fixed cost of about US$4000 a piece or b) buy one from the open market, at a variable cost of much more than US$4000. Every car I saw had the license plate practically riveted to the back of the car. Trucks/commercial vehicles had the license plate numbers painted onto the rear gates. Electric mopeds/scooters below 250cc either don't have this kind of restriction, or the plates are much cheaper to obtain.Still, with the tacked on cost of at least US$4000, there are cars everywhere.That is nuts. I can't fathom it. I won't complain ( too much) about my $48 a year. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschaf Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Ah Haaaa! I know their market. Indian motorcycle cops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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