Chrisoh Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well since I am racing the 1k only this year, I may just get a set of Marchensi Mag rims since I can use them and slicks in 3 of the 4 races each weekend.I know they are a lot of money, but I will need every bit of help I can get this year if I can make my goal of 15-30 points per weekend out of 3 points races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well since I am racing the 1k only this year, I may just get a set of Marchensi Mag rims since I can use them and slicks in 3 of the 4 races each weekend.I know they are a lot of money, but I will need every bit of help I can get this year if I can make my goal of 15-30 points per weekend out of 3 points races.Why waste that money on something that won't get you better results? Why not go and switch to Pirelli or another tire, test and find a set-up? The money those rims will cost (even at a deal) can buy a nice number of sets of tires...Not busting balls, but it is the ol' deal where guys dump a shit pile of money in their motors and exhausts only to forget about suspension and proper set-up. Same bike with two different riders - One with well set-up suspension and the other with 20 more HP than stock. Suspension wins. Buy stuff that makes sense and that will benefit you as a racer. If you are serious about racing, get better as a rider and put money where it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just2EZ05 Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 why spend that money on rims? less weight im sure. its way cheaper to just go on a diet yourself and loose the lbs. o and like lizard said invest that money in good tires and get a premo set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 why spend that money on rims? less weight im sure. its way cheaper to just go on a diet yourself and loose the lbs. o and like lizard said invest that money in good tires and get a premo set upThe rotational mass will make a difference, for sure. Noticable even. However, unless you need an extra edge because everyone else is doing similar things, there's no need. Know how many guys run Superbike with Superstock bikes? PLENTY...Wheels are a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 How about the magical Durrani wheels.. hahahaha they are just like Nessy and BigFoot. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrome Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I hear if you just put tubes in your tires, and fill them with helium it is the same as the marchisinis. kinda like you are floating on the track (but i may be wrong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Why waste that money on something that won't get you better results? Why not go and switch to Pirelli or another tire, test and find a set-up? The money those rims will cost (even at a deal) can buy a nice number of sets of tires...Not busting balls, but it is the ol' deal where guys dump a shit pile of money in their motors and exhausts only to forget about suspension and proper set-up. Same bike with two different riders - One with well set-up suspension and the other with 20 more HP than stock. Suspension wins. Buy stuff that makes sense and that will benefit you as a racer. If you are serious about racing, get better as a rider and put money where it makes sense.Well unless I can actually bring a suspension/ geometry guru with data logging with me I am not going to get anything out of that either. I do not know what I am doing with suspension and don't think I am good enough to set one up. When I hit a bump I know I hit and that is about it. Plus the money it would take me to that is a hell of alot more then the wheels. I would literally have to do 10-15 trackdays if done by myself, because everytime I need to make a change it will take me 2-3 hours to do the change and I have just wasted 2/3 of the trackday right there. (And with the race season I dont have time to that)When I raised the rear of my 600 and put on a stiffer spring I didn't really feel any difference, I really didn't feel any difference in my front end when I put new oil and bumped up to 10wt and the fact that one tube was light on oil. At least with the wheels I may be able to feel a difference and maybe it will help. And I need to get a 3rd set anyway so $500-$600 or so anyway for another stock set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well unless I can actually bring a suspension/ geometry guru with data logging with me I am not going to get anything out of that either. I do not know what I am doing with suspension and don't think I am good enough to set one up. When I hit a bump I know I hit and that is about it. Plus the money it would take me to that is a hell of alot more then the wheels. I would literally have to do 10-15 trackdays if done by myself, because everytime I need to make a change it will take me 2-3 hours to do the change and I have just wasted 2/3 of the trackday right there. (And with the race season I dont have time to that)When I raised the rear of my 600 and put on a stiffer spring I didn't really feel any difference, I really didn't feel any difference in my front end when I put new oil and bumped up to 10wt and the fact that one tube was light on oil.At least with the wheels I may be able to feel a difference and maybe it will help. And I need to get a 3rd set anyway so $500-$600 or so anyway for another stock set.There lies the issue - if you cannot understand suspension, you need to get a basic understanding and establish a feel. Your magic wheels are going to be useless if you don't. Buying a set of wheels like you describe is WAY more than a $500 set. That $1000 difference or so can get you established with a REALLY decent set of fork internals. You won't need to go the 25mm way, but doing a set of them is going to be better use of money.There are PLENTY of suspension "gurus" out there. I thought you knew Matt well? If so, hang out with him. Follow him around. Hell, pay him a labor charge to help set your stuff up. Otherwise, there are plenty of guys you can talk to and get info from.Understanding suspension is only the beginning. Not very many racers understand it in a manner that makes them experts. Few do, but most ride and if they have an issue, they ask a guy like Mike at Thermosman, etc.You need to be able to understand, however, what the bike is doing. In doing that, you'll be able to understand that if the bike is chewing up a rear, it can be "this" or if the front chatters, it can be "that"... Point is that 10 track days w/o a good person helping you with suspension is a waste, as well. However, if you get a guy who knows what they are doing or can understand what you are having issues with, they can help a lot more than buying another aftermarket bit that you THINK will make you faster. Plus, 10 track days is only a shade more than buying those wheels and the rotors for them...Also consider this - suspension is only the start. You need to work on riding ability, getting a decent set of tires, getting the best map for the fuel and motor you have, getting the chassis dialed in correctly to suit YOU, getting pure and simple seat time to establish a sense of fluidness between you and your bike. It never ends...My suggestion is this - if you think you have the suspension sorted to the point you feel it is best for you, move to tires. Chris, those BStones are shit. They're a good tire for sure, but if you want to get faster, you want to beat the other guys, you need good tires. BStones ain't it. I'll be frank - you want to get faster? Pirelli, Michelin, or DLops are the choice. Pirelli is probably best at a club level due to the fact that more guys run them and you can obtain answers should issues arise. The way it stands now, you are being held back a bit and there's an easy way to fix it.I think the wheels you want aren't going to help any. You'll feel a difference, but if your tires are shit and fall off early and cause grief, all you have is fancy looking wheels when you come back to the pits. They'll look pretty, but tires are going to dictate whether or not you succeed...My $.02... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Another note is that no matter how much seat time and set-up you shoot for, how many guys are on BStones with GSXR1000s? If you need notes or need help in set-up, those tires are different than other tires. Sure, you can try a Pirelli set-up, but if it doesn't work, that was a waste of time. You can then try the others, but again, going in circles is never any good.When I saw your rear tire, I gave a suggestion to you about rebound. You claimed that it was good and that it must be the compound. You NEED to take time and set things up. Fly by night is only going to cause frustration. Period...You also need to learn to ride around things. God knows I have done that so much it makes my head spin. However, you need to find an answer at some point. Shooting blind only makes a lot of holes before you hit your target. Focus on the issue and learn what you need as a rider and you'll get closer to the target with shooting a shit load less bullets...Tires. Dump BStone. Do they give you free tires or something? Why are you hesitant to try something else? If you want to be serious about your program, you need the best you can get. If you have cash flow for high priced wheels, you can afford different tires... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 He already has 25mm if Im not mistaken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Chris Lizard:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Mike at Thermosman, .Did you hear that ol Fitzy is giong to be doing some R&D with Ohlins? I will have to find the thread but evidently he is moving his shop location due to Ohlins asking him to do some work with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well what is the point of switching tire brands and paying anothe $40-50 a set when I am not going to be able to tell the difference.How can I learn anything if I can't tell the difference between 5mm of ride height or dropping the forks? Or tell the difference between ohlins 25mm kit and a standard racetech kit. Reason at Mid OH I was confused was that the only thing I changed on the bike was the Compound when the tire started chunking like that, and it wasn't handling any differnt even chunked like that.Yeah it has all the suspension I can put on it 25mm ohlins kit and ohlins triple in the back.Hell I couldn't tell the difference in feel from the 3 year old Michelin Pilot Race M1s and the new Bridgestones when I made the switch. I probably won't get them and just try and scrape by with just two sets of wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flounder Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well what is the point of switching tire brands and paying anothe $40-50 a set when I am not going to be able to tell the difference.How can I learn anything if I can't tell the difference between 5mm of ride height or dropping the forks? Or tell the difference between ohlins 25mm kit and a standard racetech kit. Reason at Mid OH I was confused was that the only thing I changed on the bike was the Compound when the tire started chunking like that, and it wasn't handling any differnt even chunked like that.Yeah it has all the suspension I can put on it 25mm ohlins kit and ohlins triple in the back.Hell I couldn't tell the difference in feel from the 3 year old Michelin Pilot Race M1s and the new Bridgestones when I made the switch. I probably won't get them and just try and scrape by with just two sets of wheels.Maybe just try a different tire for an event or 2 and see what you think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaNick Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I never could understand why anyone would throw their HARD EARNED money away on aftermarket wheels! They're just wheels for gawd sakes man! The tire is where it's at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Did you hear that ol Fitzy is giong to be doing some R&D with Ohlins? I will have to find the thread but evidently he is moving his shop location due to Ohlins asking him to do some work with them.He's always done stuff for Ohlins. If you are in the AMA paddock, he's always got the ol' Blue polo on (while always smokin' a cig!!!). He probably is just moving up near the facility. It isn't that big a move for him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Well what is the point of switching tire brands and paying anothe $40-50 a set when I am not going to be able to tell the difference.How can I learn anything if I can't tell the difference between 5mm of ride height or dropping the forks? Or tell the difference between ohlins 25mm kit and a standard racetech kit. Reason at Mid OH I was confused was that the only thing I changed on the bike was the Compound when the tire started chunking like that, and it wasn't handling any differnt even chunked like that.Yeah it has all the suspension I can put on it 25mm ohlins kit and ohlins triple in the back.Hell I couldn't tell the difference in feel from the 3 year old Michelin Pilot Race M1s and the new Bridgestones when I made the switch. I probably won't get them and just try and scrape by with just two sets of wheels.If you cannot tell the difference, why on earth don't you sell all that stuff and ride it stock? Why did you go to a 1000 and not get a 600 and learn with that bike? Again, not busting your balls, but here's the drill - when you want to get serious, be serious. If you cannot tell the difference between tires, you have a LOT ahead of you. Plus, $40-$50 a set is chicken feed in terms of tire costs. You could make that difference up in contingency money...I almost bet the price of that bike that you CAN tell the difference if you try and if you can get a set-up that works for you and your ability...I'd put my head down and focus on set-up this year. That way, you can learn the bike and develop as a better racer. Some of the best racers are VERY good at set-up and feel. HOWEVER, some of the best racers are complete idiots when it comes to the same thing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Maybe just try a different tire for an event or 2 and see what you think ?It takes up to a whole season to learn a tire. It takes a lot of dedication and note taking and experimenting...It took me almost all year last season to learn the Michelins. I rode slicks in 2005 from Michelin, but the entire deal was a pile of shit and didn't even count towards this last year.Set-up is so damn important - especially when talking expert class. Notes. Notes. Notes. Did I mention motes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 I never could understand why anyone would throw their HARD EARNED money away on aftermarket wheels! They're just wheels for gawd sakes man! The tire is where it's at.For a top shelf privateer in say the Superbike class or Formula classes, wheels can make sense. It's kinda like keeping up with the Joneses... In this case, a club racer can better spend their money in avenues that will result in bigger gains.Hell, Chris - you ought to go to a Spencer school and the Swantz school. You could gain a lot from those places if feel is what you are looking for. Quit doing the BS Code schools. They suck and outside the Level 1 group, it is not worth a whole lot. Spencer and Swantz are pretty damn good schools and they are more one on one. Swantz's school has guys like Tray and Opie down there. You could bend their ears on set-up and learning tire feel and suspension feel... Again, the money for those would benefit you more than a set of fancy wheels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted January 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 For a top shelf privateer in say the Superbike class or Formula classes, wheels can make sense. It's kinda like keeping up with the Joneses... In this case, a club racer can better spend their money in avenues that will result in bigger gains.Hell, Chris - you ought to go to a Spencer school and the Swantz school. You could gain a lot from those places if feel is what you are looking for. Quit doing the BS Code schools. They suck and outside the Level 1 group, it is not worth a whole lot. Spencer and Swantz are pretty damn good schools and they are more one on one. Swantz's school has guys like Tray and Opie down there. You could bend their ears on set-up and learning tire feel and suspension feel... Again, the money for those would benefit you more than a set of fancy wheels...Lizard just an FYI did code school back in 2002 2 day camp and that was the only time I was there. And it was only my second year doing trackdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 25, 2008 Report Share Posted January 25, 2008 Lizard just an FYI did code school back in 2002 2 day camp and that was the only time I was there. And it was only my second year doing trackdays.Gotcha. Must have been someone else who has done Code's deal a few times... Anyways, consider my other ideas as far as schools. Would benefit you, I think since you want to acquire more feel and ability to understand what different things are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted January 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2008 Gotcha. Must have been someone else who has done Code's deal a few times... Anyways, consider my other ideas as far as schools. Would benefit you, I think since you want to acquire more feel and ability to understand what different things are doing.Issue mostly with those schools are time off work, with Spencer only out in Las Vegas and Schwantz runs weekday schools only I think.I also got invited by SVS over on GDC to come over to BRNO and race for a week and cap it off with 3 of us doing a 4 hour race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Issue mostly with those schools are time off work, with Spencer only out in Las Vegas and Schwantz runs weekday schools only I think.I also got invited by SVS over on GDC to come over to BRNO and race for a week and cap it off with 3 of us doing a 4 hour race.You have time to do Brno for a meaningless race series for a week but not enough time to hone your skills via a credited school like Swantz or Spencer? Weird... I'd say skip Brno as it will cost an arm and a leg and to gain what?Again, looking at it from a different perspective, but here's what I think - some guy asks you to ride an endurance series for over a week (How many races in a week's time???) and you float all the cash to get there and I assume split costs.Is the guy legit? I mean, how competitive are you going to be over there? I'd say if seat time is what you want, take the travel money you're going to spend, buy a pre 2004 GSXR600 and run a few endurance races over here. Much better seat time, run at tracks you race at to learn better and you'll gain experience of a 600 and corner speed techique that will develope you as a rider...You can go Baller status and race in Brno. That would be cool for sure, but again, I ask you what you want out of racing. Do you do it to say you race or do you want to do it to be the best you can be? Both answers are "OK", but if deep down you think you can't feel the difference between this or that and that you aren't going to notice certain things due to your lacking of ability to do so, is racing really what you want?I'd think you want to be the best racer you can be. Learning is the best medicine. Take an American Supercamp a couple of times. Ride MX bikes religously and learn corner speed and sliding around. Get as much seat time on your bike as you can and certainly go somewhere that can help you hone your skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisoh Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 You have time to do Brno for a meaningless race series for a week but not enough time to hone your skills via a credited school like Swantz or Spencer? Weird... I'd say skip Brno as it will cost an arm and a leg and to gain what?Again, looking at it from a different perspective, but here's what I think - some guy asks you to ride an endurance series for over a week (How many races in a week's time???) and you float all the cash to get there and I assume split costs.Is the guy legit? I mean, how competitive are you going to be over there? I'd say if seat time is what you want, take the travel money you're going to spend, buy a pre 2004 GSXR600 and run a few endurance races over here. Much better seat time, run at tracks you race at to learn better and you'll gain experience of a 600 and corner speed techique that will develope you as a rider...You can go Baller status and race in Brno. That would be cool for sure, but again, I ask you what you want out of racing. Do you do it to say you race or do you want to do it to be the best you can be? Both answers are "OK", but if deep down you think you can't feel the difference between this or that and that you aren't going to notice certain things due to your lacking of ability to do so, is racing really what you want?I'd think you want to be the best racer you can be. Learning is the best medicine. Take an American Supercamp a couple of times. Ride MX bikes religously and learn corner speed and sliding around. Get as much seat time on your bike as you can and certainly go somewhere that can help you hone your skills.I look at racing this way, I may get enough points to get my AMA license but it is going to take min of 2 years and probably 3-4. I don't feel I will ever get fast enough to run top 5 regional or maybe not top 10 no matter what i do, I just don't think I got what it takes as I really didn't improve any this year and watched most people around me get faster.I look at the BRNO thing as once in a lifetime opprutunity, and air fare isn't going to cost much since I will only have to pay to get from Prague to BRNO, since air miles will take care of the rest.No it isn't baller status just to get a chance to actually race on a World Class circuit that I get to watch on TV twice a year, is something that I would love to do.I have been very close several times to just going back to trackdays due to personal issues not results, and the end of last year was very close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd#43 Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 For what its worth, I think you should get some of those spinners....Much higher bling factor than the Marchesini's. Seriously though, I had the Marchesinis on my 748 and I raced Doug's GSX-R with the 16.5 Marchesinis. The difference is noticeable, but they didn't make me any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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