Senate Bill 5

[Disclaimer]

How many private snow plow drivers own the necessary equipment? You can't plow a street with a 1/2 ton, sorry. They aren't built for commercial duty of that severity.

It is that easy by the way. If you call off sick and it can be proven you called off to strike or otherwise were not sick, you should be fired. It's effectively stealing from your employer, whether that's the state or a private employer. End of story.

Ok, prove it. I'm having a bout with depression, which is a valid and diagnosable illness - prove to me I'm not sick. And if you really feel that way, then we should eliminate sick days across the board. Use a vacation day -- or no, we should eliminate those too because any day you take off work is "effectively stealing from your employer". Rich, man. Rich.

And with that, stop being a troll.

Nevar!

[shittygsxr]

Ohh yea, so simple. Why don't you just push the "Easy" button?.

1) Still doesn't fix the immediate problem that there is 8" of snow/ice on the ground. If they wanted to get to the doctor they couldn't because the doctor can't even make it into his office.

2) Sick time is sick time, you can't control when you're going to be sick. Tough luck on 'coincidences'. Not every illness requires you do go to the doctor.

3) Strike, same issue as #1 -- how are all the "scabs" going to get to their new jobs?

In the meantime, you'll have millions in lost productivity in the private sector because no one can get to their jobs either.

Regardless of all that, you're going to let just any joe-blow off the street that wanted to sit behind a plow truck, plow? Yea, that's not a recipe for disaster or anything.

I am in the Masters of Snow Plowology program at OSU. In two years I should be qualified to drive a plow. Half of these union jobs are as brainless as the Jobs flipping burgers at McDonalds.

[Disclaimer]

Where's KK to weigh in on his "brainless" job? I can't remember if his truck requires a CDL or not.

[cfd37buckeye]

I was going to bring up the CDL thing.....

We had a guy call off sick, attend a class and brag to another city employee that he was not approved for the day off, so he called off sick. There was nothing the union could do to protect him from that, and we chose not to defend a blatant slap in the face like that. So it does happen in Unions also. When you defend people who do wrong, you make the whole group look like bums. We have lost 3-4 firefighters in the last 10 years who the Union chose not to overextend themselves to protect, because we knew they were wrong. Not saying they are all that way, but this bill is punishing all of us for the greed of many.

[drc32-0]

stealing from your employer?Like surfing the net while on the clock?

[Casper]

How many private snow plow drivers own the necessary equipment? You can't plow a street with a 1/2 ton, sorry. They aren't built for commercial duty of that severity.

Now you're definitely talking out your ass.

Pickerington, for one, using regular old pickup trucks to plow. Saves lots of money. And magically, our street is always clear, while Columbus and others bitch about their streets never getting plowed. But yeah, a 1/2 ton just can't do the job. LOL

[Casper]

I was going to bring up the CDL thing.....

We had a guy call off sick, attend a class and brag to another city employee that he was not approved for the day off, so he called off sick. There was nothing the union could do to protect him from that, and we chose not to defend a blatant slap in the face like that. So it does happen in Unions also. When you defend people who do wrong, you make the whole group look like bums. We have lost 3-4 firefighters in the last 10 years who the Union chose not to overextend themselves to protect, because we knew they were wrong. Not saying they are all that way, but this bill is punishing all of us for the greed of many.

So you agree all the teachers, firefighters, police, etc that called in sick to attend the protests at the state house should be fired?

[Disclaimer]

Now you're definitely talking out your ass.

Pickerington, for one, using regular old pickup trucks to plow. Saves lots of money. And magically, our street is always clear, while Columbus and others bitch about their streets never getting plowed. But yeah, a 1/2 ton just can't do the job. LOL

I can load 3 tons of bricks in the back of a Subaru too. Should I? How long will that vehicle last?

Just because the truck doesn't explode or quit after it plows a street doesn't mean it's capable. You don't use a paintbrush to sweep a garage floor do you?

But what do I know?

[Casper]

I can load 3 tons of bricks in the back of a Subaru too. Should I? How long will that vehicle last?

Just because the truck doesn't explode or quit after it plows a street doesn't mean it's capable. You don't use a paintbrush to sweep a garage floor do you?

But what do I know?

I didn't say that it can be done. I said that it is being done, successfully and cheaply.

An 8' plow is an 8' plow. A paint brush isn't the same width as a push broom. So bad analogy. The better point would be arguing a lawn tractor pushing a plow isn't the same as a truck pushing a plow. But what do I know....

PS: You fucked up the parabolic equation and the escape velocity on that math problem, so I'm totally sure you're right about this.

[redkow97]

I am in the Masters of Snow Plowology program at OSU. In two years I should be qualified to drive a plow. Half of these union jobs are as brainless as the Jobs flipping burgers at McDonalds.

I wouldn't say "brainless," but I think unionizing is a general admission by the older workers that there's no legitimate reason for them to continue getting raises.

to continue with the snow-plow driver example; a driver with 5 years experience is definitely more skilled than a guy with 1 year experience. The more experienced driver deserves to be paid more.

but what is that first driver actually learning after those first 5 years? I don't think a driver with 10 years experience is any safer, more efficient, or generally "better" at driving a snow plow - so why should he be paid more? Just for sticking around?

I don't like that one bit.

[redkow97]

So you agree all the teachers, firefighters, police, etc that called in sick to attend the protests at the state house should be fired?

I think they should be disciplined with docked pay, or loss of vacation days proportionate to the number of "sick" days they took.

I'm surprised the doctors writing fake sick notes aren't taking heat for this as well. I don't know the rules of ethics for doctors beyond "do no harm," but writing fraudulent sick notes doesn't sound like something the medical board would endorse.

[redkow97]

Pickerington, for one, using regular old pickup trucks to plow. Saves lots of money. And magically, our street is always clear, while Columbus and others bitch about their streets never getting plowed. But yeah, a 1/2 ton just can't do the job. LOL

interesting theory there. No doubt a half ton would be replaced more often, but it also wouldn't cost nearly as much as the huge dump trucks most cities use. Probably better on gas too, and easily more maneuverable.

Until you have an operating cost per mile analysis, you're both just spit-balling though.

[Disclaimer]

I didn't say that it can be done. I said that it is being done, successfully and cheaply.

An 8' plow is an 8' plow. A paint brush isn't the same width as a push broom. So bad analogy. The better point would be arguing a lawn tractor pushing a plow isn't the same as a truck pushing a plow. But what do I know....

PS: You fucked up the parabolic equation and the escape velocity on that math problem, so I'm totally sure you're right about this.

Whatever point you want to make man -- I'll defer to Casper's plan to "teach those evil union members a lesson". Just like an 8' plow is an 8' plow regardless of whether there's a 425hp CAT or a 40 yr old union member behind it.

You advising me on commercial vehicles is like me advising you on how to Sys Admin.

[Casper]

interesting theory there. No doubt a half ton would be replaced more often, but it also wouldn't cost nearly as much as the huge dump trucks most cities use. Probably better on gas too, and easily more maneuverable.

Until you have an operating cost per mile analysis, you're both just spit-balling though.

The point was that private plow companies could/would pick up the slack if plow drivers call in sick or go on strike.

[Casper]

Whatever point you want to make man -- I'll defer to Casper's plan to "teach those evil union members a lesson". Just like an 8' plow is an 8' plow regardless of whether there's a 425hp CAT or a 40 yr old union member behind it.

You advising me on commercial vehicles is like me advising you on how to Sys Admin.

Commercial? We're talking public service here. Snow plows aren't used in commerce or for commercial enterprises in the public sector amigo.

Now if you want to talk about privatizing snow plowing making it commercial, now we're on to something. I bet if it were privatized, and a bonus was given for all streets being cleared within x time, all streets would be cleared, regardless of what the private company(ies) were using to plow. The state/city would probably save quite a bit of cashola as well.

[jbot]

go here:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PSC_N.html

ctrl-F: marriage

then, ORLY

[Disclaimer]

The point was that private plow companies could/would pick up the slack if plow drivers call in sick or go on strike.

Keep telling yourself that.

1) Private contractors don't have the equipment (already covered).

2) Private contractors would get the job done slower because of #1 -- and time is money.

I don't think you're the first person to EVER consider privatizing snow plowing. If it's such a great idea, why isn't anyone doing it?

Commercial? We're talking public service here. Snow plows aren't used in commerce or for commercial enterprises in the public sector amigo.

That's because we're not on the same page of understanding the terminology. A Commercial vehicle refers to a "vehicle that exceeds a certain weight or class and therefore is "classified" as commercial even though it may not be commercially used or commercially owned" (read: Not a passenger car or "light truck")

http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/vehicle_history/faq-commercial.htm

Now if you want to talk about privatizing snow plowing making it commercial, now we're on to something. I bet if it were privatized, and a bonus was given for all streets being cleared within x time, all streets would be cleared, regardless of what the private company(ies) were using to plow. The state/city would probably save quite a bit of cashola as well.

And this was covered, you would be wrong because no one is going to invest in a piece of equipment and materials that sits idle for the majority of the year.

Edited February 24, 2011 by JRMMiii
percieved harsh verbiage

[Casper]

go here:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PSC_N.html

ctrl-F: marriage

then, ORLY

That's the current law in Ohio.

The only thing being changed, is "which includes but is not limited to benefits available under Chapter 4117. of the Revised Code" is being removed:

Prohibit the extension of specific benefits otherwise enjoyed by all persons, married or unmarried, to nonmarital relationships between persons of the same sex or different sexes, including the extension of benefits conferred by any statute that is not expressly limited to married persons, which includes but is not limited to benefits available under Chapter 4117. of the Revised Code;

[jbot]

That's the current law in Ohio.

The only thing being changed, is "which includes but is not limited to benefits available under Chapter 4117. of the Revised Code" is being removed:

why you gotta be pouring your haterade on my trollerade?

[Casper]

Keep telling yourself that.

1) Private contractors don't have the equipment (already covered).

2) Private contractors would get the job done slower because of #1 -- and time is money.

1) Your opinion, not fact. I know several private plow company owners who'd disagree with you.

2) Uhm, public plow drivers never finished the job in Columbus. Many neighborhood streets went unplowed all winter. No way private could take longer.

I don't think you're the first person to EVER consider privatizing snow plowing. If it's such a great idea, why isn't anyone doing it?

I'm sure it'll start happening with serious budget deficits.

That's because you don't even understand the terminology. A Commercial vehicle refers to a "vehicle that exceeds a certain weight or class and therefore is "classified" as commercial even though it may not be commercially used or commercially owned" (read: Not a passenger car or "light truck")

http://www.is-it-a-lemon.com/vehicle_history/faq-commercial.htm

A commercial vehicle is a vehicle used in commerce. Straight up. A car and a light truck can both be commercial vehicles. And not all heavy trucks are commercial. If I put company logos on the Camry and use it for business, I have to register it as a commercial vehicle. If I have a dump-truck I use on a farm, I don't have to register it as a commercial vehicle. Check Ohio's BMV site for more info.

And this was covered, you would be wrong because no one is going to invest in a piece of equipment and materials that sits idle for the majority of the year.

No one? The state does. Cities do. So you think it's a wasted investment?

[SJC1000rr]

Another interesting take on this, and how it may be prohibited already per federal law.

Citizens United vs. the FEC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-herrington/citizens-united-prohibits_b_824908.html?ref=fb&src=sp

[Disclaimer]

1) Your opinion, not fact. I know several private plow company owners who'd disagree with you.

2) Uhm, public plow drivers never finished the job in Columbus. Many neighborhood streets went unplowed all winter. No way private could take longer.

If you say so, I'm sure I could assemble some other plow drivers (temp and otherwise) that would provide a counterpoint. Regarding your issue w/ Columbus plow drivers, that sounds like an issue you need to take up with the city. If one were an intellectually curious person, they'd find out the answer if it affected them.

I'm sure it'll start happening with serious budget deficits.

You're assuming the private sector can do it cheaper. I bet if you ran the business case out and figured out the MLB of the city vs. a private fee to do everything the city does in the same amount of time at the same "quality" (apples to apples) -- I bet the city would be cheaper. If not, I'd give you $100 to start your own plow business.

A commercial vehicle is a vehicle used in commerce. Straight up. A car and a light truck can both be commercial vehicles. And not all heavy trucks are commercial. If I put company logos on the Camry and use it for business, I have to register it as a commercial vehicle. If I have a dump-truck I use on a farm, I don't have to register it as a commercial vehicle. Check Ohio's BMV site for more info.

The bolded part - not true. There are vehicles that are termed "commercial" even when they are for private use once they exceed a certain GVWR. City plow trucks fall into this definition, which makes sense because that's how I've been using the term in the context of this entire discussion.

No one? The state does. Cities do. So you think it's a wasted investment?

Which is why no private entity has tackled it. If they could do it for the same "cost" as the public sector and turn a profit, they would. The gov't provides services for A LOT of things that the private sector doesn't, and in this case, it's cost control. If you paid "market rate" for snow removal, what do you think it'd be?

Simple example - as a medium-sized business owner, if a day of lost productivity because my employees can't make it into work costs me $30,000 in revenue then I'd be able to put a price on what snow removal is worth. If the city has 100 medium business, that's $30M, effectively. I don't think the city pays that to remove snow all YEAR, let alone one storm. But feel free to run your own business case -- the $100 offer is up there.

Edited February 24, 2011 by JRMMiii

[Steve Butters]

i hope it snows...i have a private contract with the city of columbus to plow 270 both directions between alum creek and hamilton rd on the east side, with my 600 grizzly...12 foot blade, yall better watch out

[magley64]

And this was covered, you would be wrong because no one is going to invest in a piece of equipment and materials that sits idle for the majority of the year.

you mean like those big fucking corn harvesters that every farm in the county here seems to own? (and most of which were driven to prom)

it's only $400,000 http://caseih.ironbuilder.com/Options/Axial(-)Flow_9120_Combine/3146.aspx

Edited February 25, 2011 by magley64

[Disclaimer]

And the commodity price supports that...