Senate Bill 5

[magley64]

And the commodity price supports that...

but you said no business would buy a piece of equipment that stays stored, unused for most of the year

[C-bus]

but you said no business would buy a piece of equipment that stays stored, unused for most of the year

Lots of landscape companies plow in the winter. Their mowers sit idle in the winter and their plows in the summer.

[Disclaimer]

but you said no business would buy a piece of equipment that stays stored, unused for most of the year

They wouldn't. What's snow trading at on the exchange right now? The business case may support the ownership of a combine, but find me one for snow...That's been my point.

The landscapers/plowers use their trucks all year 'round. To either haul landscaping equipment, or plow. Therefore it's being utilized all year. They don't have a summer truck for hauling mowers and then a winter truck for plowing. Not to mention it's a 'personal' vehicle too - most of the time.

Edited February 25, 2011 by JRMMiii

[cfd37buckeye]

So you agree all the teachers, firefighters, police, etc that called in sick to attend the protests at the state house should be fired?

No, but there should be disciplinary action taken. It first has to be proven that they were in fact at the state house protesting SB5. If they used vacation or personal time, that is their business. It is also management right to ask for a slip. There is a lot of things that everybody THINKS they know about union shops that they do not.

[cfd37buckeye]

I wouldn't say "brainless," but I think unionizing is a general admission by the older workers that there's no legitimate reason for them to continue getting raises.

to continue with the snow-plow driver example; a driver with 5 years experience is definitely more skilled than a guy with 1 year experience. The more experienced driver deserves to be paid more.

but what is that first driver actually learning after those first 5 years? I don't think a driver with 10 years experience is any safer, more efficient, or generally "better" at driving a snow plow - so why should he be paid more? Just for sticking around?

I don't like that one bit.

I can cram a $350 k fire truck down a street most people wouldn't attempt driving a pickup, but I damned sure wouldn't want to drive a snow plow.

[Disclaimer]

Aaaaaaaannnnnnddd... we're one step closer, two steps away, but the governor is a shoe in to sign it. Only the House is left to go... better get all the protesting, striking, and walkouts in that you can public employees, because after the House vote, it'll be fines and jail time.

UPDATE: Senate Bill 5 passes 17-16

[fireman_343]

Total bull shit!!!

[cOoTeR]

Total bullshit how they pulled sen. Seitz off the committee to get the vote they wanted. Everyone should learn how to do everything they like public service employees doing for them. Once the wage cuts come around most of us are going to leave town for better pay. When you get pulled over by the kid working McDonald's drive thru this week that will be a policeman when the cuts come. Remember its because of this bill. Most people with integrity will not stick around and risk their safety for less then they are paid now. This bill is going to destroy the economy that Ohio has barely hanging on. If the largest employer in the state cuts pay across the board who's going to spend money at the small shops.

[Disclaimer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGODbEjIuf0&feature=player_embedded

Rep. Tim Ryan's Passionate speech against Ohio's SB-5

[Disclaimer]

I love this idea too... good way to raise revenue. When you run the show, just start fining people that disagree with you. In fact, I think we oughtta take it a step farther and start throwing these liberal dissidents in jail. It works for China and Cuba.

Wisconsin Republicans Try To Fine Dem Senators Into Submission

[YSR_Racer_99]

I'm not arguing one way or the other, but heard something interesting this morning. I was with a guy who was talking to one of his renters. She's in a union (not sure which one, nor what she does for a living), and she was ecstatic that she "got paid $100 for going to stand at the rally. Even if I don't agree with it, I'm not going to turn down an extra $100". Cincinnati area.

[John]

more $$$ for kasich to give to his lehman bros wall street buddies. awesome.

[Cheech]

Total bullshit how they pulled sen. Seitz off the committee to get the vote they wanted. Everyone should learn how to do everything they like public service employees doing for them. Once the wage cuts come around most of us are going to leave town for better pay. When you get pulled over by the kid working McDonald's drive thru this week that will be a policeman when the cuts come. Remember its because of this bill. Most people with integrity will not stick around and risk their safety for less then they are paid now. This bill is going to destroy the economy that Ohio has barely hanging on. If the largest employer in the state cuts pay across the board who's going to spend money at the small shops.

so...much...impotent...rage...

Why don't you spend a little less time angry and a little more time articulating why you're angry.

[Casper]

I love this idea too... good way to raise revenue. When you run the show, just start fining people that disagree with you. In fact, I think we oughtta take it a step farther and start throwing these liberal dissidents in jail. It works for China and Cuba.

Wisconsin Republicans Try To Fine Dem Senators Into Submission

They should be fired for not showing up for work, like what most any other employer would do. They're a bunch of fucking crybabies. "Waaa, we're not getting our way so we're just leaving! Waaa!". Stop payroll on them, hold a special election, let the people vote new Senators in. Hell, I'm all for them postponing the vote for the bill until after new Senators are instated. Prove a point. It is not okay to walk out on your responsibilities, especially your taxpayer funded, elected position, unless you're prepared to be fired.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, but heard something interesting this morning. I was with a guy who was talking to one of his renters. She's in a union (not sure which one, nor what she does for a living), and she was ecstatic that she "got paid $100 for going to stand at the rally. Even if I don't agree with it, I'm not going to turn down an extra $100". Cincinnati area.

I heard mentions of this recently here, but didn't want to post it because I couldn't find anything on it. Interesting.

[Cheech]

It would appear it's swinging the other direction: instead of recalling the Democratic Senators, the people are just starting the recall process against 8 Republicans that are eligible to be recalled. They only need 3 to regain Dem control in the Senate.

That's the beauty about recalls, the representatives were elected by the people and can be removed by the people. It's not a employer-employee thing where the employer can chop you at will. This is what the people want.

[Disclaimer]

They should be fired for not showing up for work, like what most any other employer would do. They're a bunch of fucking crybabies. "Waaa, we're not getting our way so we're just leaving! Waaa!". Stop payroll on them, hold a special election, let the people vote new Senators in. Hell, I'm all for them postponing the vote for the bill until after new Senators are instated. Prove a point. It is not okay to walk out on your responsibilities, especially your taxpayer funded, elected position, unless you're prepared to be fired.

Kinda hypocritical don't you think? Because the message the GOP is sending is "Waaa, we don't want to follow our own rules, so we're just gonna try to bully people to get what we want! Waaa!"

[Casper]

Kinda hypocritical don't you think? Because the message the GOP is sending is "Waaa, we don't want to follow our own rules, so we're just gonna try to bully people to get what we want! Waaa!"

How do you figure? They're following the law. Initiating a bill, voting on it, etc. How is me stating that hypocritical? I've never ran off because something didn't go my way. Well maybe when I was five. And I probably cried too.

[Disclaimer]

Because the Republican are whining about the Dems not being there to vote. Them being there is part of the Rules of the Wisconsin Assembly, which is why they can't vote on it. If they didn't have that rule, then they could bulldoze whatever they want through without it mattering who is present or not.

So they're whining too. Now it's just a game of oneupsmanship.

GOP: No unions!

Dems: Bad idea, we don't have the power to vote this down, but we can still play by the rules. Peace out, bitches.

GOP: Oh yea? We'll start docking your pay... your move...

Everyone loved the Republican obstructionism, but now turnabout isn't fair play?

Edited March 3, 2011 by JRMMiii

[Casper]

Because the Republican are whining about the Dems not being there to vote. Them being there is part of the Rules of the Wisconsin Assembly, which is why they can't vote on it. If they didn't have that rule, then they could bulldoze whatever they want through without it mattering who is present or not.

So they're whining too. Now it's just a game of oneupsmanship.

GOP: No unions!

Dems: Bad idea, we don't have the power to vote this down, but we can still play by the rules. Peace out, bitches.

GOP: Oh yea? We'll start docking your pay... your move...

Everyone loved the Republican obstructionism, but now turnabout isn't fair play?

Uhm, they can't do their job because of those who willingly walked out and have refused to come back to work. Not showing up for scheduled work isn't playing by the rules.

You're definitely just trolling again. This one's far-fetched even for you.

[quessimasquid]

Is this 'your' web site ? For instance , do u or can u profit from it ?

**DISCLAIMER - THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. THIS THREAD IS TO INVOKE INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION ON THE MATTER, BOTH FOR AND AGAINST.**

With OSHA and other work safety organizations, the effectiveness of unions has long been overstated. In the 20s and 30s, they played a major role creating safe places to work. Great. Now, all they're about is squeezing more money out of already tight budgets. Raises should be based on merit/performance, not how long you've been there. Work hard, get a raise. Do the minimum, no raise. It's just how it should be. Unions unfortunately take a more socialist approach to it with equal raises for all, even those who don't deserve them. So in the end, you have outrageous payrolls and mediocre employees. Now I'm not saying all state employees are mediocre. However, think if you knew you'd get an X% raise no matter if you gave 75% or 110% at work. What would you do? The minimum? Or your best? It breeds a society of people thinking they deserve more for just showing up. Handouts and gimmes need to be stopped. It's a hard decision, but it has to be made.

Does this mean I don't think firefighters, police officers, paramedics, teachers, etc should be paid more? Absolutely not. My brother is a firefighter and a paramedic, and I hope nothing but prosperity for him and his wife. I want to see all people succeed. I believe those who work hard deserve more money than those who do not. This goes for all positions in all professions. Do your job well, get paid well. Suck at your job or do the bare minimum, you can keep making what you're making or even face disciplinary action. If you don't like it, that's the beauty of America; go find a different job, go to school to better qualify for better positions, etc. I love this country. I love this state.

This, of course, is only my opinion, which I am entitled to. So before the name calling starts, sit back and think about what I'm saying. If you disagree with me, that's your right, but let's keep this discussion civil.

If you don't know what Senate Bill 5 is, you can read it here: http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PSC_N.html

[Disclaimer]

Uhm, they can't do their job because of those who willingly walked out and have refused to come back to work. Not showing up for scheduled work isn't playing by the rules.

You're definitely just trolling again. This one's far-fetched even for you.

Whether I'm trolling or not, the points are still valid. The rules are there. There is no rule about not showing up, they're all out on junkets for all you know.

This isn't a McDonalds-punch-a-timeclock type job. They travel, they politik, they visit places to learn about how other people do things, etc.

GOP can quittheirbitchin'

[Casper]

Whether I'm trolling or not, the points are still valid. The rules are there. There is no rule about not showing up, they're all out on junkets for all you know.

This isn't a McDonalds-punch-a-timeclock type job. They travel, they politik, they visit places to learn about how other people do things, etc.

GOP can quittheirbitchin'

I wish the people could vote on things like this. Then, if it passes, the majority wanted. If it fails, the majority didn't. Plain and simple. Politicians make things too political. LOL

[Disclaimer]

The problem with "the people" is they all want something for nothing, and will only support causes they think THEY will benefit from and to hell with the rest of the 'system'. Human nature is not to be concerned about anyone else but their social circle or sphere of influence.

I could rant on and troll more, but I want to save something for later.

[quessimasquid]

I choose to answer your personal message publicly because I feel it is important for me to do so . You asked why do I ask if you profit from this website. The answer is because if you do the amount of members on the site may have something to do with how much so. You seem quite a bit opinionated when it comes to issues involving other peoples lively hood. In response to that open opinion . certain members may decide they don't care to help you with your livelyhood. So I ask again . Do u profit from this website ?

**DISCLAIMER - THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. THIS THREAD IS TO INVOKE INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION ON THE MATTER, BOTH FOR AND AGAINST.**

With OSHA and other work safety organizations, the effectiveness of unions has long been overstated. In the 20s and 30s, they played a major role creating safe places to work. Great. Now, all they're about is squeezing more money out of already tight budgets. Raises should be based on merit/performance, not how long you've been there. Work hard, get a raise. Do the minimum, no raise. It's just how it should be. Unions unfortunately take a more socialist approach to it with equal raises for all, even those who don't deserve them. So in the end, you have outrageous payrolls and mediocre employees. Now I'm not saying all state employees are mediocre. However, think if you knew you'd get an X% raise no matter if you gave 75% or 110% at work. What would you do? The minimum? Or your best? It breeds a society of people thinking they deserve more for just showing up. Handouts and gimmes need to be stopped. It's a hard decision, but it has to be made.

Does this mean I don't think firefighters, police officers, paramedics, teachers, etc should be paid more? Absolutely not. My brother is a firefighter and a paramedic, and I hope nothing but prosperity for him and his wife. I want to see all people succeed. I believe those who work hard deserve more money than those who do not. This goes for all positions in all professions. Do your job well, get paid well. Suck at your job or do the bare minimum, you can keep making what you're making or even face disciplinary action. If you don't like it, that's the beauty of America; go find a different job, go to school to better qualify for better positions, etc. I love this country. I love this state.

This, of course, is only my opinion, which I am entitled to. So before the name calling starts, sit back and think about what I'm saying. If you disagree with me, that's your right, but let's keep this discussion civil.

If you don't know what Senate Bill 5 is, you can read it here: http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText129/129_SB_5_PSC_N.html

[jbot]

he has said in the past that he doesn't even break even on this site most of the time.

and judging by hosting costs for a website like this with the traffic it gets, and the amount he charges per year for someone to be a "sponsor" and "supporter", i would believe it.