Casper Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Instead, they defect to Malta. http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE71K23020110221 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I read this earlier...news like this tends to spread like wildfire in the USAF. Good on them for what seems to be moral/ethical values motivating them. Its cant be an easy decision to defect like that. Hopefully they get political asylum status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 watch it live. http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I read this earlier...news like this tends to spread like wildfire in the USAF. Good on them for what seems to be moral/ethical values motivating them. Its cant be an easy decision to defect like that. Hopefully they get political asylum status.I sure as hell hope if it ever comes down to it, our Air Force would do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I sure as hell hope if it ever comes down to it, our Air Force would do the same thing.That's one reason these guys are around. http://oathkeepers.net/1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 That's one reason these guys are around. http://oathkeepers.net/that site is well meaning, but hopelessly burdened with obvious political BS. i'll take from it the parts that are created with sincerity and good intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 That's one reason these guys are around. http://oathkeepers.net/Holy shit those folks creep me out...ill pass on their oaths and stick to this one: I, (state my full name), having been appointed a captain in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) that site is well meaning, but hopelessly burdened with obvious political BS. i'll take from it the parts that are created with sincerity and good intentions.Then you got the important parts Holy shit those folks creep me out...ill pass on their oaths and stick to this one: I, (state my full name), having been appointed a captain in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.One thing I like about the officer oaths, they don't include "I will obey the orders of the president of the United States." Edited February 22, 2011 by chevysoldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beegreenstrings Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Does not matter, truthfully. That place is destined for civil war! The only thing they did by not following orders was post pone the inevitable. It is going to happen. It just would have started last night because of the airforce attacking them instead of two months down the road when the army fires upon them...It is just one of those places in the world destined to be, as most would call it, a shit hole because of their government/governing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJ Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sounds like they're already shooting at the citizens - I also just read something on CNN about soldiers who refused orders being executed. Bad juju.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 chevysoldier...you might want to read the constitution,especially article 2,section 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curby Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 That's one reason these guys are around. http://oathkeepers.net/Where were these guys after Katrina hit and LEO's were going home to home seaching for people and weapons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 chevysoldier...you might want to read the constitution,especially article 2,section 2.I fail to see the point your making? If it's in response to my reply that the oath for officers doesn't include obeying the president, that has already been tested. Their (officers) primary objective is in following and upholding the constitution as a whole, not so much as listening to the commander in chief. Where were these guys after Katrina hit and LEO's were going home to home seaching for people and weapons?One reason they have gained some popularity now. Don't recall if that's one reason they were formed or not. I haven't researched the group a lot but do believe their list of oaths are what should be expected from our military.Katrina was a natural disaster and many troops probably thought what they did was a good idea or an order not worth disobeying. Had that order been given to disarm the American public during a rebellion, the outcome of the orders would have been different I think (hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 That's interesting.How do you uphold the constitution without following the constitution?Sounds a lot like christians with erasable bibles...just follow the parts you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Because if the president tells the troops to do something that goes against what the Constitution states, then it is their duty to disobey that order. They still have to follow presidential orders, but only to the point that it interferes with the Constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 All officers of the seven Uniformed services of the United States take swear or affirm an oath of office upon commissioning. It differs slightly from that of the oath of enlistment that enlisted members recite when they enter the service. It is required by statute, the oath being prescribed by Section 3331, Title 5, United States Code.[1] It is traditional for officers to recite the oath upon promotion but as long as the officer's service is continuous this is not actually required.[2] One notable difference between the officer and enlisted oaths is that the oath taken by officers does not include any provision to obey orders; while enlisted personnel are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice to obey lawful orders, officers in the service of the United States are bound by this oath to disobey any order that violates the Constitution of the United States.[3][edit]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Because if the president tells the troops to do something that goes against what the Constitution states, then it is their duty to disobey that order. They still have to follow presidential orders, but only to the point that it interferes with the Constitution.O.K.,I can agree with that,military personnel DO follow the orders of the commander-in-chief in the normal course of action.Of course they are not bound to follow him if he disregards the constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 O.K.,I can agree with that,military personnel DO follow the orders of the commander-in-chief in the normal course of action.Of course they are not bound to follow him if he disregards the constitution.Bingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 That's one reason these guys are around. http://oathkeepers.net/Ah yes, the group of people gathered around to grumble how the Obama and the OMGLEFTMEDIABBQ is eviscerating the country with a spork and to give brown/Mexican people the stinkeye. Well intentioned site, but when it comes down to it that's what this is all about.For those of you that are saying Libya's going to go into civil war, yummy down on this little nugget: The people shooting at the protestors aren't Libyan, but mercenaries recruited from sub-Saharan Africa, reportedly at a rate of $2k/day by one of Gadhafi's sons. Also, the ruling party is primarily made up of Sunni's who, because they are a MAJOR minority, import their troops from southern Africa. Works out for the troops in that they get paid a lot better, works out for Gadhafi in that he's got people that know who signs their checks and are loyal to him, not to the people or to a party. Also it's easier (relatively speaking) to fire on the citizens when you really have no connection to them. If there is a "civil" war, it's going to end just about the time that Gadhafi is gone.I have to imagine a similar thing is going on with the pilots, but there was just news today of a Libyan destroyer showing up in Malta as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 vff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyco1 Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 "People tell me it's also quite calm in Bayda and Benghazi. They do say, however, that 'militias' are roaming around, especially at night. They describe them as African men, they say they speak French so they think they're from Chad."http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/2011223125256699145.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disclaimer Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Gruesome footage 'proves' Libya using heavy weapons: Timeshttp://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ioj_n4zvOWuAPv9A2DV1Vsnj1V-w?docId=CNG.4af4e4e47b3036e50e619ac9358a9ec4.d21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) If you missed it today, an SU-22 fighter-bomber that was sent to bomb Benghazi, decided not to. The two pilots bailed out and let the plane crash on the way to the city.http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/ordered-to-attack-own-people-libyan-pilots-crash-their-jets/But one or two Libyan warships still sit offshore shelling the town...On Tuesday one or two warships defected to Malta.edit: I think the two ships ordered to shell Benghazi, mutinied and tried to get to Malta...http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/02/libya-warship-defects-to-malta.html Edited February 24, 2011 by ReconRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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