increasing speed in twistiez

[Jamez]

As most should know by now I'm a new rider,

I plan on trying to walk into the MSF course very soon but I know the mostly concentrate on low speed manuevering and basic controls and safety.

I feel pretty good riding but I don't feel like I'm taking turns as fast as I should be. I AM NOT a speed racer and am not trying to drag knees or anything but I feel my turns are not as sharp/leaned/fast as they should be.

I know some of this comes with time and confidence but mabe someone can clear a few things up for me...I have heard different things from different people and read different things in different books. I've tried a few things on my own but I'm still a newb and need some small coaching...

I heard that your handle grip push in the direction of the turn is the main input and is responsible for most of the lean.

I've heard that your body weight shifting is the primary input to a lean and how you shift weight on the pegs.

I've heard ( let's say right turn for example ) that you should pull on the left grip and push on the right grip at the same time.

I've heard that your hips and knees pushing the tank are the primary input for increased lean.

SO...which is it? Id like to learn and be able to practice the proper way if someone can clearify for me. Is a sharper higher speed turn a whole body manuever?

Mabe a step by step break down entering a turn would be helpful. Thanks alot

[RSVDon]

Mabe a step by step break down entering a turn would be helpful. Thanks alot

While this won't be a step-by-step. This is just what I always remind myself when out riding on "less-traveled" roads. It was told to me by a road race instructor in my car many years ago.

"Slow in, fast out. Less chance to fuck up."

What I mean is, if you go barreling into a corner at warp speed, more than likely you're going to mess something up. Sometimes the right line, entry, and exit may not feel fast but it is.

[ReconRat]

the push/pull thing is counter steering. The quickest way to experience it is to try to gently steer with one hand only. It will quickly become evident what forces make a turn. Equally, body motion at the hips, will steer the bike. Pushing the tank with a knee has an effect also. I've noticed that lowering the body over the tank is a distinct difference, compared to maneuvers while sitting up straight. I'm not going to claim expert here, just guy who has been riding a long time. the MSF class will have some good info on most of this. They prefer you use a certain style grip on the handlebars as a beginner.

The rest of it is body in motion on the motorcycle in motion. Time and practice will set that in place. Don't try too hard, and don't fight it. Just learn as you go. It takes time.

Be one with the motorcycle, grasshopper...

edit: on a motorcycle, smooth is good...

Edited April 20, 2011 by ReconRat

[Rctaylor]

Countersteering (Pushing on the inside handlebar) is by far the most effective input from the rider to lean the bike.

The only reason people lean off the bikes is to keep the bike more verticle, which yields more traction, which allows higher corner speed. Thats a bit more for advanced and track riding.

Edit: Just remembered Twist of the Wrist 2 has a very informative scene about this very subject. Weighting a peg yielded hardly any turn, even body lean didn't do much.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Rctaylor

[Jamez]

Like I said I'm definately not asking how to drag knees and I understand basic turning dynamics as far as countersteering and slow in quick out.

I don't do bad and will always ride my own pace but it seems when I ride with other people they just totally dust me through turns and I have to try and play catch up on straightaways.

I've just heard so many different things and I try and do what feels right but I have no idea if I'm doing something incorrectly. I feel that I've pushed pretty hard but still have a difficult time nailing a tight line.

I feel like I'm too stiff or too straight up in turns. Is that normal?

Edited April 20, 2011 by Jamez

[shadyone]

for most on road turns it will be...

Break before the turn. and dowshift if needed.

begin looking through the turn.

weigh outside peg.

push left go left. push right go right.

hold throttle or slightly accelerate.

continue looking through to the exit.

straighten out and accelerate.

Edited April 20, 2011 by shadyone
stupid error...

[grapesmuggler27]

Get through a MSF class an get yourself to a trackday, you will learn more about your abilites and your bikes abilites in 1 day then 1 year of riding.

[Ziggy]

I was going to mention this when we were out riding the other day, but with my mechanical difficulties, I was distracted... Try doing most (if not all) of your braking before you reach the turn. That way you can use both of your brakes to their fullest while going straight with the bike vertical, and use the throttle through the turns. Keep working on the basics, speed will come with time and practice.

[shadyone]

i'll agree with that mr. smuggler..

and BTW welcome fellow triumph and daytona rider

[gixxer_joe08]

They will also teach you in that class that every turn is different. Push/pull is great in when doing city street type of turns, and the lean is better on like county roads. I think your over thinking everything you do. Your still a beginner and its natural that you think these things and "are not keeping up with your buddies". If you were to get in a nascar car and race tony stewart, think your could keep up? I mean the cars are the same and your just turning left, but he has been doing it longer. Same as being on a bike. I was the same when i started. Dont get frustrated just keep racking up the miles and you will improve

[Jamez]

Speed shouldn't be the goal. Speed is a byproduct of the goal. The goal is to be smooth and consistent.

Geezus, that's beautiful man. I like this a lot for some reason.

I do appreciate all the responses, and yes Tony Stewart is better than me at turning left.

[2talltim]

just a small tid bit i'd like to add...i like to keep the rev's up high as i go through corners seems to make the bike smoother in the center and on exit...but i ride a v-twin they can be trempermental on the low end if you dont...oh yea and "DONT LOOK AT YOUR SPEEDO" iv know guys to wipe out in a corner trying to check their speed:nono:

[RSVDon]

just a small tid bit i'd like to add...i like to keep the rev's up high as i go through corners seems to make the bike smoother in the center and on exit...but i ride a v-twin they can be trempermental on the low end if you dont...

Wait...wut?

Guess the TL is a different beast. The Ape doesn't like buzzing into corners at V_max, piston.

It's happiest grunting its way through corners at 5-8k, usually more stable for me and less twitchy for the chassis due to less engine braking.

[2talltim]

Wait...wut?

Guess the TL is a different beast. The Ape doesn't like buzzing into corners at V_max, piston.

It's happiest grunting its way through corners at 5-8k, usually more stable for me and less twitchy for the chassis due to less engine braking.

when i say keep the rev's up im talkin around 7-8k too..im not talking tach'n her out ...below 6k she wants to buck me off..LOL

[2talltim]

The TLs is a pile of shit below 4k rpms. Ask me how I know...

ok, i know how i know this, but... How do you know?

[swingset]

Smooth should be all you're EVER focused on when learning. Everything else is a byproduct of smooth, including saving your ass when things go badly.

Forget speed. That's the goal of someone intent on wadding themselves up.

[jbot]

OP return that helmet where you got raped on the price, and use that money you were going to "take a shit in" and spend it on a track day. that will help you increase speed in the twistiez more than anything you could possibly glean from here or even from many street rides.

[Bellboy1]

I am also a newb, so take this for what its worth. Eveything posted so far is correct from what I have experienced, but there are two I experienced that I haven't seen

The MSF class will help a bunch. I was kind of the same way last year when I first did the MSF. This year I did the class again, but with more practice time riding on my bike, so I didn't have to think about the controls or countersteering, I could just work on getting smooth for my cornering. Since last year this just clicked and I've found I'm getting faster through turns and corners. For me I found the herky jerky last year came from 2 factors. As a kart racer it pissed me off to realize what they were, but it was:

1. I didn't trust how far I could lean the bike. That caused me to hit brakes or roll off throttle in the middle of a turn. BAD! :nono:I have learned that the bike will lean over very far at low speeds. It just takes practice to get confidence in it.

2. And this was the critical one. I didn't have my eyes far enough up through the turn. If you get your eyes in the right spot, your hands will follow your eyes, and the bike will follow your hands. Really emphasize getting your head around and looking THROUGH the turn. Its racing 101 but can be applied to everything motorized. I realized I was looking at the apex and never moving my eyes up which was causing me to drive right at the apex and screw up the entire corner. Once you start in to the corner get your eyes up for the exit. When my eyes were in the right spot, I just kind of automatically roll in throttle and the whole bike just works and shoots through a corner perfectly stable.

Anyhow flame away, but this is what helped me achieve smoothness zen.

[Jamez]

Thanks

And Jbot, its been well over 30 days so ill keep using that helmet as a toilet and shitting in it.

Hahaha, sorry about being a prick man I just had a strong opinion, totally separate thread..

I hope ziggy or jolly mon can chime in here, did I look stiff as a board on my turns? It sure feels that way.

I am not scarred to come off like a retard. I have no issues whatsoever with other peoples opinions of my questions as well. I ask to try and learn even if they are noobish. Ill take my licks and be better for it. I do sincerly appreciate it when u guys humor me and answer my ignorant questions.

Kudos to you guys

[jbot]

well, you can at least use the shitty helmet as a track day back up lol

i'm still advocating track days as the best investment for learning good habits for riding. the only bad thing is if you get hooked, you can just say good bye to several grand a year. street riding with the right people is still really fun though.

[Mykill]

I I could just work on getting smooth for my cornering. Since last year this just clicked and I've found I'm getting faster through turns and corners.

We will get you out in some real turns soon.

[NinjaN8]

Well, I have very limited experience with twisties of any kind. About the only thing I have down here is some high speed turns on the freeways. Anyways, when I first started riding I was having a hard time of making the bike go where I wanted it to. I was analyzing everything I was doing; body position, breaking, speed, handlebar inputs and I swear I was just making things worse.

The problem, I discovered, was that I was over-thinking everything instead of just looking at where I wanted to go and letting it all happen naturally. So now I maintain a high alert while riding while not really focusing on the inputs to the bike, if that makes any sense... It's all kind of a Zen thing to me I guess.

[Hutch]

We will get you out in some real turns soon.

Do I smell a ride in the making

[grapesmuggler27]

Track day track day track day! Its mentioned but lead with your head and the rest will follow, head, hands, hips (open them up to the corner), bike!

Here hope this helps... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxODoscChNo&feature=related

[jporter12]

I'm not going to argue this, but I disagree with anyone that says anything about leaning to initiate a turn. There have been studies done on this, and leaning alone will not make the bike turn. Whether you realize it or not, when you lean, you are giving input to the bars, and THAT is making the turh. At higher speeds, and on supersport bikes, that input is much less, therefore, one doesn't think they're actually doing it.

Someone please correct me if you can PROVE otherwise.

/rant

I am learning how to corner better (smoother, which turns into faster) each time I get on the bike, and each curve I take. I am pretty slow, in comparison to some of the people I've been riding with. Following others that are better than I am has helped me quite a bit.

A few pointers, most have already been said, but here's what has helped me.

LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO! Look through the curve as far as you can. It WILL make a huge difference, especially in hwo things "feel" to the rider. I struggle with this one all the time, and I have to constantly remind myself. I have been told before to point your chin where you want to go. Having your head turned that way, and looking that way will make the turn feel better, in my experience.

The bike WILL lean over further than you are comfortable with. This is for the majority of riders out there, with the exception of some racers that have experienced the limits of their bikes, tires, setup, etc...

Brake in, accelerate out. This is golden. As you accelerate, you probably need more steering input, don't be afraid to push on the bars!

Weight shifting is helpful as you get better. I've been riding 2 seasons now, going into my third, and I'm just now making myself do this much more. I don't shift in the seat very much, but I push down on the peg that's to the inside of the turn. Left turn, weight the left peg. From what I'm seeing, some bikes are more responsive to this weight shift. My Honda seems to give me more benefit from it than the Ninja. I think that on the Ninja, I might need to move myself around in the seat more, and get my weight more on the front tire. I will be be slowly working on this to see what works best on that bike.

The biggest thing is spending more time on the bike. The more you do it, the better you will be at it, like most other things.

All of the tips above are my opinion and stuff that I have been told, or have read. I try not to listen to just anyone. If someone is a good, experienced rider that I know for a fact is good, I listen to them.

I need to get into the Keith Code Twist of the Wrist 2 book that I have sitting here... Someday!