witnessed an accident this morning

[redkow97]

Black Nissan Xterra didn't check her blind spot and tried to change lanes on top of a Red Grand Prix.

The Grand Prix swerved and braked to avoid contact, over-corrected for her swerving, went left,right,left and spun into the wall on the wet pavement.

The Nissan kept right on driving. I took issue with that. Plate number was recorded, and I called the police right after I got off the highway (next exit).

The accident had already been reported, but they were surprised to hear from a witness.

The responding officer just left my office. I filled out a witness statement and chatted with him a bit. He said it's going to be difficult to nail the Xterra driver because they have no way of proving that she actually knew she caused an accident. that kind of pisses me off. IMHO, she knew. Her actions immediately after indicated that she knew. She looked damn shaken up, and immediately picked up her phone. I was hoping she was calling the police, but I'm pretty sure my wife would call me first...

anyway, the officer thanked me for making the call, and said at the very least, I probably spared the driver of the red Pontiac a ticket for reckless driving. "I'll tell you right now, everyone who wrecks their car 'got cut off.' I wouldn't have believed her if you hadn't backed up her story."

If they do go after the Nissan driver, I think she's pretty screwed. I just had a mock trial problem (real facts and police reports; fake names) that involved a traffic accident. I am uniquely in-tune with what information is needed in a witness statement to make it useful and unambiguous.

I stuck to the facts in the witness report, but I think the black nissan driver was clearly at fault, even though no contact occurred... The Pontiac driver swerved and braked purely to avoid contact. The notion that she should have sat there and allowed her car to be hit while traveling 60mph to be sure someone else was at fault is ridiculous to me. I think a jury would see it that way too - not that this will go to trial, but I might make some good business contacts if the parties lawyer up!

...plus it never hurts to have a good relationship with local law enforcement.

[chevysoldier]

Good for you for doing the right thing.

[Bad324]

I'm going to take a wild guess that this was Independence?

[redkow97]

if you stay in your lane, I don't see how they can possible cite you for failure to control...

I would have taken the ticket and fought it. At least I'd like to think I would have.

[redkow97]

I'm going to take a wild guess that this was Independence?

yeah, between rockside and pleasant valley. Southbound lanes.

You drive by the accident, or just guessing Independence based on the fact that the cops have nothing better to do than stop by my office?

[Bad324]

yeah, between rockside and pleasant valley. Southbound lanes.

You drive by the accident, or just guessing Independence based on the fact that the cops have nothing better to do than stop by my office?

What the cop said had Independence PD written all over it. Probably 5 years back we were headed south on that same stretch while they were doing construction. Some drunk asshole comes flying by as the orange barrels were squeezing it down a lane. He hits an orange barrel, loses control and ends up hitting us head on. gets out of his car WITH A BEER IN HIS HAND in a solo cup and my buddy who was driving was irate so dude gets in his car and drives off. I knew the make model year and color of the car and the first 4 digits of the plate #. When the IPD showed up on scene they were about to give my buddy a ticket and I lost it on this cop. We had 3 other witnesses saying the same thing as us and he wanted to pin it on us. I immediately phoned in to to the supervisor and preceded to explain the situation, he radioed the patrolman and finally the asshole decided not to write one. I don't hate cops, I respect what they do but as a whole that department is a joke and only do what they want or feel, not uphold the law the way it should be

[redkow97]

I do think many LEO's could learn a lot from speaking to the prosecutor(s) more often.

This officer seemed genuinely interested in catching the party responsible, but he asked me things that wouldn't hold up in court.

"in your opinion, did the black nissan cause the accident?" Yes, that's my opinion, but that's totally irrelevant. A lay-witness's opinion (it's different for experts) on the ultimate issue in question is inadmissible as evidence. I'm not "qualified" to make that judgment in the eyes of the court - definitely not in a witness report (which is a hearsay statement anyway).

The officer can ask me those things to help shape his own opinion of what happened, but it's smarter to phrase things in a manner that is factual, but draws the obvious inference of fault.

"the black car and the red car never made contact, but a collision would have occurred if the red car had not taken evasive action." Translation: the black car was at fault - but I can't just say, "the black car was at fault," because that's a judgment rather than a fact.

Anyway, i hope my statement helps out the victim in this case. If it saved her from a ticket (i found out the victim was a woman from the officer), or keeps her insurance company from jacking up her rates, that's something I guess.

[Helmutt]

+1 ^^^

[Das Borgen]

great job actually calling the Popo....you're a good man for doing the right thing

[Bellboy1]

Kudos on calling that in. I'm sure it will help the victim either in avoiding a citation or an insurance increase. I agree its good to see people do the right thing.

[ReconRat]

I chased one after a collision (not mine) and got a clear view of the driver's face up close. That works.

Actually, we told the driver to go back. That didn't work.

Showed for witness at court, but not called. Defending lawyer saw us and give it up.

[Helmutt]

Props for sticking up for the victim bro, you's good people!

Sadly enough, although the victim may avoid a citation; quite a few insurance companies will penalize their own customers for simply being involved in an accident since damages are covered under their collision coverage and not by the "at fault's" insurance company - too bad everyone doesnt have dash cam's.....thats all the proof she'd needed to warrant free repairs.

[Likwid]

Here's my experience with seeing an accident and why I was disappointed.

Heavy traffic and construction, car behind me must not have been paying attention, I was stopped he didn't notice until late and slammed on his brakes. I was watching but he was clear of me, but the car behind him wasn't... I saw him get rear ended (nothing major, his car jolted forward a bit then I saw him drive off to the side with the other driver).

I called the dispatcher and got the WORST attitude, "Why are you calling, you weren't in the accident. Fine where is it... northbound between mile marker 115 and 116?!? Just tell me the exit...."

I know their job kind of sucks, but I almost just said "You know what, fuck it, I don't need to report this"

[redkow97]

I called the non-emergency number, so I didn't get your typical dispatcher (I don't think). He was appreciative, but in a hurry when I first reported the accident, because they had already gotten a call. When I said I had actually witnessed it, they slowed down and started taking down my info.

If it didn't help anything (i hope it did), all it cost me was 10 minutes of my life writing the witness statement. I think it was worth it.

[gen3flygirl]

NARK!

J/K I am sure you made that drivers live much easier because dealing with insurance companies can be a pain in the ass. They don't have a innocent until proven guilty policy, they will make any accident your fault if they can.

[chevysoldier]

I called the non-emergency number, so I didn't get your typical dispatcher (I don't think). He was appreciative, but in a hurry when I first reported the accident, because they had already gotten a call. When I said I had actually witnessed it, they slowed down and started taking down my info.

If it didn't help anything (i hope it did), all it cost me was 10 minutes of my life writing the witness statement. I think it was worth it.

If everyone would just take 10 minutes out over their "oh so busy" lives, things would be a lot better in the world.

[redkow97]

well like I posted before, if nothing else, the cop believed her story because of me. That's something.

Maybe it saved her from getting a reckless op ticket, and maybe it even motivated the officer to actually look harder for the Xterra driver. He said all the victim was able to tell him was "a black truck." I had the make, model, and full plate number, so they know exactly who was driving.

i have a feeling the driver will shoot herself in the foot by admitting something when she's contacted, and it should unravel from there. How the insurance companies handle that is up to them. I doubt there will be much "justice" there, but like I said, at least I feel like I did my part.

[serpentracer]

this situation depends on which side of the fence you are standing on.

the law says if you didn't make contact, you weren't involved. and can't be held liable for "causing" anything.

then you are on the victim's side, I'd like to beat the snot out of someone for that myself.

but technically they really didn't make them crash. the "victim" failed to control their vehicle.

and that's how this will be settled.

[mgbgt89]

the law says if you didn't make contact, you weren't involved. and can't be held liable for "causing" anything.

Yep. My best friend totaled his car when he swerved to avoid a car that ran a yield sign. Since her car had no damage at all, she wasn't liable. When i'm in a cage i just lay on the horn and brake lightly instead of swerving. I'm not going to go out of my way to make contact, but I'm not going to risk crashing without making contact first.

On a bike, that strategy doesn't apply. I'll do everything in my power not to make contact with a car.

[redkow97]

the law says if you didn't make contact, you weren't involved. and can't be held liable for "causing" anything.

If that's the case; and it might be, that's terrible policy. (wouldn't be the first time)

That means the law is encouraging you to allow a 2-car accident to definitely happen, rather than attempting to avoid it and creating the possibility for a 1-car accident.

Even if the Xterra driver didn't "cause" the accident, she is guilty of other traffic offenses - the question will be weather or not she can be charged based on witnesses accounts. She could be for other crimes, so I don't see why not.

But i reject the argument that contact is necessary to be "involved" in an accident. This is a perfect example of how a driver's negligence (failure to check her blind spot before starting a lane change) forces another driver to take an evasive action that ends in an accident.

"But for your negligence, I would not have gotten into an accident." The legal question will be whether or not the victim's reaction (over-correcting and essentially getting her grand prix into a 'tank slapper') will be deemed an "intervening cause," or simply a reasonable reaction.

[serpentracer]

that's why I'll let someone hit me.

[redkow97]

I'm not going to go out of my way to make contact, but I'm not going to risk crashing without making contact first.

you're fighting a ton of instinct in a split-second situation there. It all sounds good in theory, but I saw this go down in a matter of seconds this morning.

There's no way this lady had time to think, "gee, I should probably let our cars touch so I'm not at fault."

Besides, if she had let that happen, the Xterra would have been tapped in the left rear corner at 60mph on a slick (rain soaked) road. I would bet almost anything it would have rolled multiple times.

eve IF you had time to go through the full thought process, it's not worth it.

[Sapphy]

If that's the case; and it might be, that's terrible policy. (wouldn't be the first time)

I was was taught at work: "There is what is right and there is what is the law, and what is the law trumps"

[redkow97]

i bet our site sponsor and in-house attorney could confirm who is correct.

I don't think you guys are wrong when it comes to the practical and probable outcome; i just wish you were.

If I were able to argue the victim's side in front of a jury, I think there would be a legitimate shot at justice being served, but only 3% of cases actually make it to court.

[mgbgt89]

you're fighting a ton of instinct in a split-second situation there. It all sounds good in theory, but I saw this go down in a matter of seconds this morning.

Everytime I've told someone that, They give me the same response as you did. I probably put 10 miles on my bike for every 1 that goes on in my truck. While i'm surrounded by all that steel, my reactions are completely different. For some odd reason, less people do dumb shit around me than when i'm on my bike though.

When you're used to the vulnerability of a motorcycle, a 4000 pound pickup is like a rolling bank vault, and i drive it accordingly.

That being said, I drive my truck like an absolute grandma, since i get no enjoyment from driving at all anymore. I don't drive aggressively, and i know full well i can't change direction like i can on my bike. I'm careful not to try and take action that would cause me to lose control.