Fail, beyond belief

[InyaAzz]

Nor am I trying to make light of the training, or lack thereof. But again, surely someone, especially in a group of first responders, knew how to swim. I'd like to think if I saw someone drowning on a beach I'd do

my best to help. Though I guess according to some, I'd have to aak him first if he's trying to commit suicide.

That's the point I think you're missing here. He wasn't drowning. He was WALKING AWAY FROM THE BEACH.

[Bad324]

Point is that I'm sure out of close to 100 people, I'm sure SOMEONE knew how to swim and was able

to save him. No, I'm not suggesting someone w no training who would certainly die, attempt to save him. Nor am I trying to make light of the training, or lack thereof. But again, surely someone, especially in a group of first responders, knew how to swim. I'd like to think if I saw someone drowning on a beach I'd do

my best to help. Though I guess according to some, I'd have to aak him first if he's trying to commit suicide.

being able to swim and being able to rescue someone in water is 2 very totally different things. Now add in that person struggling because they don't want to be saved (or in most cases because they are panicking) and its damn near impossible without proper training.

I've had to TRY to do this once in my life and its honestly fucking impossible if you don't know what you're doing. I would've failed had we not thought quickly and tied a life jacket to the line and pulled him in that way. I alone wasn't going to be able to rescue this person

[InyaAzz]

being able to swim and being able to rescue someone in water is 2 very totally different things. Now add in that person struggling because they don't want to be saved (or in most cases because they are panicking) and its damn near impossible without proper training.

thank you!

[alienpi]

Where's the guy with the hovercraft when you need him? http://hoverclubofamerica.org/

[redkow97]

This guy was ABLE to wade back to shore.

I was intentionally vague in my earlier post, but I agree with you.

There's a LITTLE grey area here, because it's not at all improbable that the guy was mentally ill, but that's me speculating.

If that's the case, then he's significantly less able to take care of himself, and deserves more societal care, but we don't know.

Even then, charity is not a fundamental right. It's not Uncle Sam's responsibility to save everyone, whether they're drowning, or just on welfare. While the police and fire fighters may have stood by and watched this guy drown, I don't think they would have (or could have) stopped someone else from trying.

I hear an awful lot of people saying, "they should have __________," and yet none of those people telling the firefighters what they should have done did anything themselves.

"but I'm not trained to rescue people from the bay!" Neither are the firefighters. That's the fucking point!

[redkow97]

I'd prefer police and fire personnel spend their time saving people who WANT to live.

[buildit]

I'd prefer police and fire personnel spend their time saving people who WANT to live.

Big +1

[InyaAzz]

I was intentionally vague in my earlier post, but I agree with you.

There's a LITTLE grey area here, because it's not at all improbable that the guy was mentally ill, but that's me speculating.

If that's the case, then he's significantly less able to take care of himself, and deserves more societal care, but we don't know.

Even then, charity is not a fundamental right. It's not Uncle Sam's responsibility to save everyone, whether they're drowning, or just on welfare. While the police and fire fighters may have stood by and watched this guy drown, I don't think they would have (or could have) stopped someone else from trying.

I hear an awful lot of people saying, "they should have __________," and yet none of those people telling the firefighters what they should have done did anything themselves.

"but I'm not trained to rescue people from the bay!" Neither are the firefighters. That's the fucking point!

Again....spot on.

[20thGix]

So they stopped the water rescue program 18 months ago. So what's happened to all the trained personnel and equipment. I can see cutting funding to the program but why stop using the training and equipment you previously had. I'm not arguing right or wrong just the details.

[idodishez]

I'd prefer police and fire personnel spend their time saving people who WANT to live.

Aren't u contradicting your previous post? I was all set to agree w u and say yes, who are we to be judge and jury to decide WHO gets to be saved. Maybe he WAS mentally illl. Does he deserve saving then, but only then? He's sick, not a criminal.

Ill give you this, ive seen some valid arguments on how it may not have been as black and white as initially thought. (300 lbs, possibly combative, cild water) but no ones commented on putting theirselves "closer to home". What if he was one of YOUR loved ones? Would u still be so casual about the loss of a life and the picture this paints on our " fellow man"?

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[ReconRat]

He willingly went into the water. He was either looking for death or attention. He got both.

You're a smart feller to be able to see that.

Also true:

Most people can't swim well enough to do a rescue.

Almost no one is trained to actually rescue swim.

It's difficult to actually water rescue someone who wants saved.

Nearly impossible to water rescue someone who doesn't want to be saved.

To do so is to risk your own life.

The simple fact that he didn't go in the water till people were there,

well, it seems to me everyone should have just walked away.

He might have just changed his mind.

But it doesn't work that way, does it?

[InyaAzz]

Ill give you this, ive seen some valid arguments on how it may not have been as black and white as initially thought. (300 lbs, possibly combative, cild water) but no ones commented on putting theirselves "closer to home". What if he was one of YOUR loved ones? Would u still be so casual about the loss of a life and the picture this paints on our " fellow man"?

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I would NOT expect a stranger to risk their lives for a family member who was trying to end theirs. If it happened that way, I would thank that stranger from the bottom of my heart....but if everyone watched my dad walk out in 45 degree water in SF bay, in no obvious distress and telling everyone to get away from him, WTF do you expect ???

EDIT: Surfers apparently attempted to help this man...and he turned them away. So, at this point, is every other person on the beach supposed to "man up" and swim out to him to try and bring him back? Ninja please!!

Edited June 2, 2011 by InyaAzz

[SWing'R]

being able to swim and being able to rescue someone in water is 2 very totally different things. Now add in that person struggling because they don't want to be saved (or in most cases because they are panicking) and its damn near impossible without proper training.

I've had to TRY to do this once in my life and its honestly fucking impossible if you don't know what you're doing. I would've failed had we not thought quickly and tied a life jacket to the line and pulled him in that way. I alone wasn't going to be able to rescue this person

Bullshit. I saved a friend from drowning in the deep end of a in-ground pool back in high school.

Granted a pool and the SF Bay are two very different things but it was water over my head and I did manage to save him,

and he did take me under when I reached him, thats what they do, they cling because they are scared. I had to kick

him off of me and then I grabbed his foot and pulled his ass to the side.

Edited June 2, 2011 by SWing'R

[SWing'R]

So they stopped the water rescue program 18 months ago. So what's happened to all the trained personnel and equipment. I can see cutting funding to the program but why stop using the training and equipment you previously had. I'm not arguing right or wrong just the details.

Guess when they stopped getting paid for it they conveniently "forgot" it.

...If the guy had fallen over-board or off the dock and was making some attempt to save himself or was

unconscious -then, yes, trying to save him would be justified.

A human life is a human life.

Edited June 2, 2011 by SWing'R

[Disclaimer]

A human life is a human life.

True, that's all it is. Nothing more.

[YSR_Racer_99]

Yeah, suicide is a cry for help. <<

I disagree. "Attempted suicide" is a cry for help. Going through with it is a whole 'nother thang.

[idodishez]

A human life is a human life.

Exactly. Wether he's mentally I'll, suicidal, or 100% healthy.

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[Goldie]

Pretty much have to agree with (what seems to be) the general consensus. The dude wanted to kill himself...he accomplished. It is, what it is.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

He's sick, not a criminal.

Suicide is illegal just FYI

[Monstrosity]

I know I am feeding into the stereo type, but I love Krisyp Kreme (Dunkin' Donuts too!) Damn it! I just got out of bed and now I'm hungry! You all SUCK!!

I'm no cop but I love donuts and coffee!

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

I hate donuts and coffee so I cancel out Matts cravings

[MidgetTodd]

Seriously???? Everyone is jumping for joy? He got what he wanted? Wtf is wrong w people? So no one could go in to save him, but they could go on to retrieve his dead body? Makes sense to me! And they were right to not go in because he could have been a threat? Um, so going into a burning building isn't? And none of these 75 bystanders who weren't "handcuffed" so no need to go in? Until after he's dead? Something seriously muffed up w people.

Yeah I've got to agree with you.

Yeah' date=' suicide is a cry for help. This man wanted and most likely needed help

but instead the man died while everyone watched.

Most everyone's comments in this thread are equally disturbing.[/quote']

An attempted and usually failed attempt is indeed a cry for help and attention' date=' this man was in the water for an hour, waiting for someone to give a damn and help him,

maybe show some regard for human life, but instead the heartless bastards just watched and let him take his life.

I look at this as a test of human compassion, and everyone there failed.

I hope they sleep ok at night knowing they watched someone die and could have helped but did nothing.

BTW, I do not condone what this guy did, or suicide as an answer, but I definitely don't agree that doing nothing was the right answer.[/quote']

Exactly! Of the 75 bystanders, not to mention the professionals on site, you would hope SOMEONE would step up and do the right, honorable thing. Not trained?? BS. Where are the true men? The fellow man who actually cares for his. "neighbor". Instead it's just their entertainment for the day. It was indeed a cry for help

For those that say he got what he deserved. What would u do if it was your dad, son, or brother?

Truly dis heartening

Point is that I'm sure out of close to 100 people, I'm sure SOMEONE knew how to swim and was able

to save him. No, I'm not suggesting someone w no training who would certainly die, attempt to save him. Nor am I trying to make light of the training, or lack thereof. But again, surely someone, especially in a group of first responders, knew how to swim. I'd like to think if I saw someone drowning on a beach I'd do

my best to help. Though I guess according to some, I'd have to aak him first if he's trying to commit suicide.

Ok to you armchair wanna be heros. Most of you here know I'm a Firefighter/Medic on 2 dept's .... That being said, I'd stand there and let him go too. My life is more important than that of someone who wants to commit suicide. I have taken water rescue classes, have you clowns condeming thier actions taken those classes???? It's the rescuer who usually drowns too either from the struggle or hypothermia. Take shit all you want but when it comes time to jump into 50 degree water to save someone who wants to die let me see you man up and do it, I'll watch you drown too. Am I cold and heartless, well maybe so. I have saved lives before and I've taken big risks doing so. I have fallen thru a floor of a burning house and I've went into the water too....to save people who didnt want to be there and that didnt want to die! You wanna kill yourself go right ahead I'm not gonna stop you. An innocent victim on the other hand I'll be the first one to try and help. Bash on fucktards, if you are man enough to do the job well go get your fire and emt cards and I'll put you on a truck with me for a few shifts and see if your opinion changes.

[ReconRat]

Ok to you armchair wanna be heros. Most of you here know I'm a Firefighter/Medic on 2 dept's .... That being said, I'd stand there and let him go too. My life is more important than that of someone who wants to commit suicide. I have taken water rescue classes, have you clowns condeming thier actions taken those classes???? It's the rescuer who usually drowns too either from the struggle or hypothermia. Take shit all you want but when it comes time to jump into 50 degree water to save someone who wants to die let me see you man up and do it, I'll watch you drown too. Am I cold and heartless, well maybe so. I have saved lives before and I've taken big risks doing so. I have fallen thru a floor of a burning house and I've went into the water too....to save people who didnt want to be there and that didnt want to die! You wanna kill yourself go right ahead I'm not gonna stop you. An innocent victim on the other hand I'll be the first one to try and help. Bash on fucktards, if you are man enough to do the job well go get your fire and emt cards and I'll put you on a truck with me for a few shifts and see if your opinion changes.

Exactly, reality is what it is. Besides, you live to save countless others.

[Bad324]

Bullshit. I saved a friend from drowning in the deep end of a in-ground pool back in high school.

Granted a pool and the SF Bay are two very different things but it was water over my head and I did manage to save him' date='

and he did take me under when I reached him, thats what they do, they cling because they are scared. I had to kick

him off of me and then I grabbed his foot and pulled his ass to the side.[/quote']

oh boy a pool! I annoint you king of the lifeguards then.

Try something with waves, a current and 20ft depth and tell me how fucking easy it is when there isn't a concrete ledge or the bottom anywhere within 100's of yards of you. Gimme a fucking break

[Vulcan_Rider]

Lets see if we can give a different perspective to those who think he should have been saved. Let's say someone has a gun to their head and wants to commit suicide do you think an untrained and unarmed person should attempt to disarm him and risk their life for someone who obviously wants to die?

Before you bitch that its completely different, a 300lb suicidal man 200 yards from shore in neck deep 54 degree water is just as deadly as a person with a gun.