F-16s intercept... tiny kit plane...

[ReconRat]

LOL ... I would have liked to have seen this. Two F-16s scrambled out of Toledo, and intercepted a tiny KitFox Model II. Which flies at 85mph and often under 500 ft above the ground. That 85mph is just about the minimum stall speed of an F-16. So I guess they were flying big circles around the tiny KitFox trying to get it to land. Flying circles at very low altitude and freaking out all the people on the ground.

http://barrington.suntimes.com/news/6877801-418/small-plane-flying-out-of-south-barrington-intercepted-after-violating-obama-air-space.html

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110804/news/708049895/

Who will win?

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-16-j-98821f16wwf.jpg

VS:

http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/Model%20II_files/image001.jpg

Oh, and this was all to protect Obama in Chicago...

[flounder]

The pilot is in deep shit. You always check the notams before you go up and if you break the 30mile rule for the presidents route, its your ass.....

Pure pilot error.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Wow that be and experience.

[Steve Butters]

The pilot is in deep shit.

sounds like she got lucky....no charges filed

did anyone else think of gen3 when it said a woman pilot? lol

[gen3flygirl]

thanks ass. We are religious about check for that kind of stuff. Plus home builds scare the shit out of me. To many of those damn things go down.

[Steve Butters]

thanks ass. We are religious about check for that kind of stuff. Plus home builds scare the shit out of me. To many of those damn things go down.

wasnt saying you would fly in the presidents space just that i pictured it in my head when it was mentioned

[Scruit]

How far in advance is the temporary restriction put in place? Minutes? Hours? days?

It's like those people i tnhe city that park on the road ignoreing the temporary "street sweeping" signs. Yeah, sure, you park here every day, but today there is a restriction and claiming you didn't get to notification means you failied in you duty as a driver/pilot to take advantage of the notification that are provied (which are good enough for everyone else, why not you?)

Having said that, they don't typically send F16s out to ticket people who park illegally - although a couple of sidewinders would probably solve the parking problem pretty quickly.

[AndyJ]

A Dr. I used to work with was up flying the morning of 9/11; he has some pics of the F16 trying to form up with him to intercept.

Actually I thought their dirty stall speed was alot higher like 125 or so?

Really there's no excuse for not being aware of TFRs - I get emails for the eastern half of the US; I saw this one last week. It's just embarassing.

[Steve Butters]

i would have thought having a radio in the plane would be mandatory...if i was the gov. i would send them a nasty bill for the fuel and time it cost for those f16s to run them down....having a radio (or common sense lol) would have avoided all that trouble

[Scruit]

Oh, and this was all to protect Obama in Chicago...

Yeah, they'd do the same for any president. It may be a slow kit plane but it could easily be loaded up with explosives and go on a kamikaze mission.

[gen3flygirl]

i would have thought having a radio in the plane would be mandatory...if i was the gov. i would send them a nasty bill for the fuel and time it cost for those f16s to run them down....having a radio (or common sense lol) would have avoided all that trouble

depending on the airspace you don't need one. Is it a good idea, probably. Those kit planes have the least amount of equipment possible sometimes.

[Scruit]

i would have thought having a radio in the plane would be mandatory...if i was the gov. i would send them a nasty bill for the fuel and time it cost for those f16s to run them down....having a radio (or common sense lol) would have avoided all that trouble

Dunno if the radio is mandatory, but being aware of those restrictions IS.

[Steve Butters]

depending on the airspace you don't need one.

i wonder if that might change here soon after this mishap? a radio seems like something that is a must have lol...i mean, i dont fly so i guess i dont know for sure, but i cant imagine flying without having any kind of communications....what if you have a technical problem and need assistance or something? rich people being cheap is all that seems like imo...maybe she will buy a radio now lol

[AndyJ]

Yeah, they'd do the same for any president. It may be a slow kit plane but it could easily be loaded up with explosives and go on a kamikaze mission.

Actually light airplanes are probably the worst terror weapon out there - very little payload, tough to do much damage. The dude who hit the IRS down in TX showed that, but the point got lost in the !!!!11ZOMFGDOOOOOOM!!!one!!111!! fear mongering message from the media and TSA.

We spend millions 'protecting' against a basically nonexistent threat and harassing pilots, while you can still rent a Ryder truck with no restrictions.

[redkow97]

"the fighter jets got pretty close. They rattled a few windows." That's probably an understatement.

I was on the 6th or 7th floor of my dorm on 9/11, and when fighters went supersonic leaving Wright Patterson AFB, the BUILDING moved; not just the windows.

Granted, I realize they weren't supersonic above Chicago, but I bet you they shook more than just some windows in Toledo when they needed to get to Chicago in a hurry.

[kawi kid]

I'm glad to see a security measure tested. We know it works still lol

[flounder]

i wonder if that might change here soon after this mishap? a radio seems like something that is a must have lol...i mean, i dont fly so i guess i dont know for sure, but i cant imagine flying without having any kind of communications....what if you have a technical problem and need assistance or something? rich people being cheap is all that seems like imo...maybe she will buy a radio now lol

No this mishap will not change anything. Small planes do not need radios in the uncontrolled airspace they fly in nor is there a reason to have one other than emergencies. You can land those small planes damn near anywhere. (Trust Me!!!) I used to fly a piper cub which has no electrical system at all and you had to hand prop it to start it. One of the most fun planes to fly ever!

fyi. hand prop means you have to have someone spin the prop by hand to start the plane.

[redkow97]

An expensive civil suit might change what's expected of small aircraft, even if it doesn't change the law.

There's an old case where a bunch of ships were tied to each other in a storm. Like 8 or 10 deep off the dock. Anyway, one got loose, and destroyed a shipping dock.

The shipping company (dock owner) sued the ship owner. The industry practice was NOT to use radios, and they were not required, but the court ruled that the entire industry was negligent in not using radios; so even though there was no law being broken, civil liability was still enforced. (I can't remember why, but having a radio would have prevented the property damage - probably because the deck hands would have known the storm was coming)

It will take some kind of property damage that could have been avoided if the aircraft was using a radio, but the practice will change once it sets up aircraft owner/operators for liability.

Radios are extremely inexpensive compared to the damage a small aircraft can cause, thus the "burden" of purchasing, installing, and using a radio is low enough that the court will likely find negligence if one is NOT used.

/legal rant.

[Josh1234]

On 9/11 my ship (I was in the Navy for 6 yrs) was sent out to be a radar picket ship off the coast of Washington D.C.

I happened to be in C.I.C. (Command & Information Central) when we told some poor pilot he had 30 seconds to change course or we'd shoot him down.

Poor guy probably crapped his pants when we identified ourselves as a Guided Missile Destroyer

[gen3flygirl]

No this mishap will not change anything. Small planes do not need radios in the uncontrolled airspace they fly in nor is there a reason to have one other than emergencies. You can land those small planes damn near anywhere. (Trust Me!!!) I used to fly a piper cub which has no electrical system at all and you had to hand prop it to start it. One of the most fun planes to fly ever!

fyi. hand prop means you have to have someone spin the prop by hand to start the plane.

you still need to get your ass back in an airplane

[flounder]

An expensive civil suit might change what's expected of small aircraft, even if it doesn't change the law.

There's an old case where a bunch of ships were tied to each other in a storm. Like 8 or 10 deep off the dock. Anyway, one got loose, and destroyed a shipping dock.

The shipping company (dock owner) sued the ship owner. The industry practice was NOT to use radios, and they were not required, but the court ruled that the entire industry was negligent in not using radios; so even though there was no law being broken, civil liability was still enforced. (I can't remember why, but having a radio would have prevented the property damage - probably because the deck hands would have known the storm was coming)

It will take some kind of property damage that could have been avoided if the aircraft was using a radio, but the practice will change once it sets up aircraft owner/operators for liability.

Radios are extremely inexpensive compared to the damage a small aircraft can cause, thus the "burden" of purchasing, installing, and using a radio is low enough that the court will likely find negligence if one is NOT used.

/legal rant.

The pilot was at fault and a radio would not have fixed the fact that he was responsible for knowing the airspace restrictions in place and his location. If anything, they could charge him for the expenses associated with scrambling the jets to intercept him.

[redkow97]

On 9/11 my ship (I was in the Navy for 6 yrs) was sent out to be a radar picket ship off the coast of Washington D.C.

I happened to be in C.I.C. (Command & Information Central) when we told some poor pilot he had 30 seconds to change course or we'd shoot him down.

Poor guy probably crapped his pants when we identified ourselves as a Guided Missile Destroyer

haha - did you at least count slowly?

[Scruit]

haha - did you at least count slowly?

Slowly? Sod that. I'd have tried to make that 30 count in about 5 seconds, like a bratty kid playing hide-and-seek.

"You have thirty seconds to turn around or we will shoot you down. Ready? ONETWOTHREEFOURFIVESIXSEVENEIGHTNINETEN *GASP* ELEVENTWELVETHIRT...."

[Josh1234]

We were all scared shitless on the afternoon of 9/11. When that happens, training takes over... So the count just sounded boring, like it was a training exercise. They weren't counting over the radio to the pilot, but there was a count in CiC. Just a steady drone. Didn't take long for the dude following radar tracks to report an aspect/heading change for the air contact

[ReconRat]

A Dr. I used to work with was up flying the morning of 9/11; he has some pics of the F16 trying to form up with him to intercept.

Actually I thought their dirty stall speed was alot higher like 125 or so?

Really there's no excuse for not being aware of TFRs - I get emails for the eastern half of the US; I saw this one last week. It's just embarassing.

Yes, armed, or with external stores or tanks, or with a full load of internal fuel, the stall speed is much higher. Empty is landing speed minimum stall.