THE GRUNDISH Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 RIP little racer.....Everytime I go to practice there they have let the Karts and Bikes run together and we usually just get out of the karts way when they come around and usually never is a big deal....but what is wierd is there isnt any hills there to hide behind so I wonder if he had gone around a sharp turn and the other rider didnt look far enough ahead??? still very sad..... and as far as flaggers go or track personnel....there isnt any... well on practice days that is.... Just gotta look out for each other.....but they were young so that may have been a factor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 RIP first of all. How sad to bury your child and miss all those possible years. I hope to never feel that in my life...That being said, the issue is that they allowed both to run together. We've never been there and ran with the karts together. One, the karts will run a faster lap time, but are low and wide. Bikes and karts take and use different lines. Maybe it is something they let the smaller bikes do... Dunno...There are TONS of elevation and drop offs. There are at least 3-4 areas where I can see they could have been hidden. Walk the track and you'd see that easily...The biggest issue is that this was avoidable. Why the parents allowed it, the track allowed it, the riders/drivers allowed it is beyond me. It actually has me pretty pissed right now. I am in the process of building my son's RM for tard use and if this EVER happens, we will pack up and go home. Doesn't make sense and doesn't fit.Godspeed to the little guy and God help the parents through this. It's a sad deal that didn't need to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Yes, it is very sad! From what I gather from being there yesterday for a race.. the track owner (Steve) said that the guy on the bike did not speak English very well and I thought he told him to not go out when the karts were on the track. Also, this is just what I heard around the pits and not to be understood as fact... I guess the kid on the kart spins out a lot and gets disoriented and will just start going no matter what direction the track was running. So, that might of been the problem, he was young and I can see my 6yr old doing the same thing.. that is why he isn't racing or on the track with others at this time! I was also told by one of my members that was there, he said the kart the kid was on was VERY small.. alot smaller then a normal kart, and even had extintions on the pedals. When I go for open practice days there, I ALWAYS talk to the kart guys and tell them what direction I'm going and to NOT go on the track when I'm out there (I'm never out there for practice for more then 10min anyway). If I see a kart on the track.. I pull off right away! Anyway, prayers to the family of the child. RIP little man! Edited September 12, 2011 by fireman_343 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 RIP little guy...The 37 year old that was involved has got to feel like crap as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellboy1 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) I feel so bad for all the parties involved. My kids started running karts at 6 down there and you never ever think anything could happen that would be fatal. Edited September 13, 2011 by Bellboy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I suspect there will be a lawsuit over this. The issue is that it was told to not be allowed and someone got out there and it became a mixed group. That's going to be an issue and if I were a parent, I'd be pretty pissed they didn't red flag the session once they saw the two groups were out there and stopped it asap.The other issue is that too many people are on here saying it happens all the time. I've been down there NUMEROUS times and while we are all big bikes, we have NEVER been on track with the karts. Not once.I also think no corner workers on an open track day is a no-no. I bet the insurance is going to crush these guys over this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 RIP little guy, a life cut way too short over something very much avoidable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblosser Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Perhaps Chris/Redkow can jump in here, but (in general terms) wouldn't the release I assume the parents had to sign in order to get Jr. on the track absolve the track of liability?Or, does their negligence override your 'standard' liability release?IMHO, the parents, unfortunately, are at least partially to blame for allowing their child out on an unsupervised track, but in that same vein the CRP ownership should be sued out of existence for their gross negligence.My $0.022 worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Perhaps Chris/Redkow can jump in here, but (in general terms) wouldn't the release I assume the parents had to sign in order to get Jr. on the track absolve the track of liability?Or, does their negligence override your 'standard' liability release?IMHO, the parents, unfortunately, are at least partially to blame for allowing their child out on an unsupervised track, but in that same vein the CRP ownership should be sued out of existence for their gross negligence.My $0.022 worth.While I agree on the parents to blame, if it is like any other open track day, they simply pay $15 and go on out. No waiver at all... Now, if daddy said it was cool and mommy finds out the info and decides the track should have had corner workers, flag stands, etc and DID NOT sign a waiver... Well, I think it is a done deal if someone takes it to court.The big thing is the track has got to have some type of insurance against this. However, I wouldn't be amazed to find out they do not. Someone is going to have to pay for funeral stuff and related. I am betting there's no insurance and it gets ugly.I also know that when we sign waivers, people still can sue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've always had to sign a waiver before I got on the track.. Steve or Danny will chase ya down with that paperwork. I was told that any waiver will not hold up, and that u can still sue, or the insurance will sue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 10tv, whose website totally blows by the way, reports that the family said it was "no ones fault".... I would link it, but that is all I can get to before their site shuts down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSB67 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 the family said it was "no ones fault"We should leave it at that, learn from this and move on. Lawsuits aren't going to help anybody except the lawyers. I have opinions on the situation as I understand it but am not going to post them here to be used against any our fellow enthusiasts involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxie750 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 We should leave it at that, learn from this and move on. Lawsuits aren't going to help anybody except the lawyers. I have opinions on the situation as I understand it but am not going to post them here to be used against any our fellow enthusiasts involved.Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I've always had to sign a waiver before I got on the track.. Steve or Danny will chase ya down with that paperwork. I was told that any waiver will not hold up, and that u can still sue, or the insurance will sue!Well, I've not signed a thing the last few times I have gone for an open practice. They have hunted me down for the $15, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 We should leave it at that, learn from this and move on. Lawsuits aren't going to help anybody except the lawyers. I have opinions on the situation as I understand it but am not going to post them here to be used against any our fellow enthusiasts involved.I don't think it is inappropriate to discuss the situation. After all, it was a mistake by someone or a group of people that included a fellow enthusiast. It was avoidable, stupid and resulted in a loss of life that could have easily been prevented. I think discussing is a fine thing as long as we all respect the person that was killed and I think we are doing so.This type of thing happens all the time. If we treat it with kids gloves and keep hush, hush, how will things change? My hope is that this is a lesson and that the track NEVER allows karts and bikes to run together.I also think that big bikes and smaller bikes should be broken down into classes also to avoid such a difference in speed. I had a buddy run a kid over with his 450 that tucked the front and was traveling a lot slower than he was. It ended up fine, but imagine had he run over his neck, etc.?OYL was on our asses and people made a lot of shitty comments, but the end result was that there needed to be classes separated due to size and speed.No different than when they split up groups for track days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 OYL was on our asses and people made a lot of shitty comments, but the end result was that there needed to be classes separated due to size and speed.I don't know who the people were that made the shitty comments and what not, but I do agree with ya on that fact that the bikes need to be split up by speed. And I'm shocked that you have not signed the wavier at CRP the last few times! That's the first thing they hand me (and others when I've went) before they take your $15. I'm sure if you go there now, that you'll sign one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE GRUNDISH Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yeah the old man chases me down and has me sign then I try an haggle the price and tell him its a "free day" right??!! lol but he gets me everytime and I go quite often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellboy1 Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I've always had to sign a waiver both on race days and open practice. They have been very good about that when I'm there. I'm seeing both sides of this story. Turns out the kid's Dad is in SCCA and is a regular club racer at Mid Ohio. The family is aware of the risks that go with motorsports but that does not make it any less trajic. I did not know them personally since we mostly autocross, but I would probably recognize them from working days up at the track. The people who run Circelville have been very good when we are down there. I hate to see this at a track where so many people have so much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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