Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Well i guess you can't fix stupid, your gonna vote the way you want because you seen a commercial on tv and believe everything the government tells you. Your just sheep like everyone else, all I can say is really look at an issue before you open your mouth about it and act like you know what your talking about. All will be well when were finally "equal" and millions more people lose their homes and can't feed their kids because of pure ignorance and greed thanks and god blessDo yo think you're changing anyone's mind with this kind of nonsesne? If you just watch ads you have no clue what the real issue is. There are misleading ads on both sides of the issue. Lot's of fear mongering about 911 calls, etc.If you actualy read the issue itself, it looks a whole lot like updating some 30 year old policies...because well times have changed in the last 30 years and they need updating.When you got a state job did you really think it meant that nothing was going to change ever? If so, the "ignorance" as you put it is pretty easy to find. Edited October 20, 2011 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well i guess you can't fix stupid, your gonna vote the way you want because you seen a commercial on tv and believe everything the government tells you. Your just sheep like everyone else, all I can say is really look at an issue before you open your mouth about it and act like you know what your talking about. All will be well when were finally "equal" and millions more people lose their homes and can't feed their kids because of pure ignorance and greed thanks and god blessSecond post and you are already calling names? Welcome aboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Second post and you are already calling names? Welcome aboard.Didn't notice that. Who is this really, UP or IP stirring the pot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Mis-information on both sides...adds are made for "sheeple".You can fix "stupid" with education, but senority doesn't require that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Well i guess you can't fix stupid, your gonna vote the way you want because you seen a commercial on tv and believe everything the government tells you. Your just sheep like everyone else, all I can say is really look at an issue before you open your mouth about it and act like you know what your talking about. All will be well when were finally "equal" and millions more people lose their homes and can't feed their kids because of pure ignorance and greed thanks and god bless Once again our new guy is making the exact same post I would have made FOR the issue although mine would probably not have had as many grammatical errors or a God reference. This keeps getting easier I hope he sticks around and keeps things fun. The name calling is just a bonus we use here among friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Unions just are not what they use to be.. If this happened 20yrs ago, a lot of people would have busted up knees!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Thankfully this isn't 20 years ago, I would be so afraid. Resorting to physical force to get compliance usually means your idea was an ignorant one. If it was such a great idea you wouldn't need the force to get compliance everyone would gladly be on board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 ...and' date=' no. I'm not the new guy. LoL.[/quote']Not accusing...more like trying to guess on sense of humor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm still undecided on this issue. I see pros and cons' date=' but I tend to shy away from legislation that won't actually solve problems. I'm not saying SB5 won't solve problems, though. I'm just wondering if it actually reaches far enough into the meat of the problems to be worth the effort.[/quote']So you think go farther? Like remove public unions completely? I'm just asking, I don't even know ifthat is feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm still undecided on this issue. I see pros and cons' date=' but I tend to shy away from legislation that won't actually solve problems. I'm not saying SB5 won't solve problems, though. I'm just wondering if it actually reaches far enough into the meat of the problems to be worth the effort.[/quote'] In my estimation it won't solve much of the problem at all and I don't think it reaches far enough into the problems. If it fails and the problems get bigger more drastic measures will need to be made so failing might be a blessing in disguise. If the issue passes things will get back to being out of hand in no time just as it currently is with federal workers who don't have collective bargaining rights, remember P.A.T.C.O.? The benefits and salaries of the people who currently hold their old jobs are very well above what most state workers currently make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you have not seen this video, it's a MUST watch! Brings REAL FACTS to the table!!!Maybe this will open some of your eyes on what is REALLY going on! Euclid Fire Fighter Bill Mastroianni speaks out against Issue 2 on behalf of Euclid Fire Fighters Local 337. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKidHSAx3n4&sns=em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Watched the video...demonstrating other goverment waste and abuse does nothing to bolster the firefighters case. No one I know in the civilian sector gets comp days, sick days, and vacation days like those of goverment employee Unions, (My wife included).Ask the civilian Union members here and elsewhere how their benefits compare. Less then honest folks will say good for them "get all you can from the man (taxpayers)". Yet they are quick to point out others taking advantage, which I noticed all the examples were Republicains...hmmmm?I also like how he seperated all the groups. If they opted FF's out of this do you believe they would stand with the other public employee unions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 The video certainly does point out how the issue doesn't reach far enough and the reasons for it in the first place. The people who were given raises in the new administration I see as an abuse of power but two wrongs don't make a right. We need something in place to keep that from happening just like we are currently trying to do with this issue pertaining to the rest of our government employees. My biggest issue with the whole public employee system is double dipping. Shy of eliminating the S.S. system the public employees should at least have to conform to those standards. The S.S. system is constantly being touted as not sustainable yet workers can work 45 years before realizing any benefits from it. Public employees can work 20-30 years get a retirement then start another career eligible for another retirement benefit.(I’m going to leave their health care benefits out for now.) There is no way that is sustainable and it needs to change. Thankfully the guy in the video points it out as an abuse that needs to be addressed. Hopefully we can get another issue passed to get this option taken away and I would be for the current issue even more so if it was already part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I also noticed the references to the benefits that elected officials get. I don't debate they need trimmed and cut also. However, saying how well the current system works after stating all the inequity in it is not a very convincing argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Punk, I am sure most anyone will say certain parts of this bill are good. And no the good parts probably do not reach far enough, but it is a start. I just cannot go along with pushing through a bill that has points in it that make no sense for both sides. If they can spend the time and money to get it partially right, why not follow through and make it all right?I voted for Kasich and for real change. But one solid point I do not agree with is not allowing a third party, one totally divested of any bias to one or the other side, to make the final decisions when 2 sides do not agree. So let them have their union if they want it. Re write the contracts if necessary.I found it disturbing, when the anti group gained a foothold with gaining signatures for the upcoming vote that the Pro SB5 side suddenly was willing to sit down and possibly make this work with some tweaking. Why weren't they willing to do this from the onset? Instead they locked out the opposing side and rammed through what they wanted while ol Kasich hired his people and gerrymandered the required votes (not geographical lines) to ensure what he wanted would pass.Re write the effing bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 Here's an easy to read synopsis of the bill as it now stands.http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/analysis.cfm?ID=129_SB_5&hf=analyses129/s0005-prop-129.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 This bill doesn't have the ability to fix the real problems responsible for the issues at hand. I see one of them being politicians that have no business experience negotiating contracts while having no understanding of how to realize sustainability. If you live in an area where the elected city council thinks that city workers should have benefits beyond what is the prevailing wage package little can be done to stop them from giving that away. They don't have to worry about how long their decision affects the city after they are gone or what will happen if revenue diminishes. It's the fox guarding the chicken coup. The state at one time guaranteed college to Ohio National Guard members to increase participation. It was a great program for those who took advantage of it but it was discontinued because of a law that doesn't allow for one session of legislature to make expenses for another. It was an expensive proposition and one that probably never should have been implemented. Thankfully there was a stop gap in place that brought back the spending to an oversight which stopped it. Should we renegotiate contracts with workers after each election? Probably not because we won't get talented people filling the jobs if they can't depend on their income. I'm not certain what the solutions are but government employees can't stick their head in the sand thinking they can keep going at the status quo while the rest of those around them have had to make adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiomike Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 This bill doesn't have the ability to fix the real problems responsible for the issues at hand. I see one of them being politicians that have no business experience negotiating contracts while having no understanding of how to realize sustainability. If you live in an area where the elected city council thinks that city workers should have benefits beyond what is the prevailing wage package little can be done to stop them from giving that away. They don't have to worry about how long their decision affects the city after they are gone or what will happen if revenue diminishes. It's the fox guarding the chicken coup. The state at one time guaranteed college to Ohio National Guard members to increase participation. It was a great program for those who took advantage of it but it was discontinued because of a law that doesn't allow for one session of legislature to make expenses for another. It was an expensive proposition and one that probably never should have been implemented. Thankfully there was a stop gap in place that brought back the spending to an oversight which stopped it. Should we renegotiate contracts with workers after each election? Probably not because we won't get talented people filling the jobs if they can't depend on their income. I'm not certain what the solutions are but government employees can't stick their head in the sand thinking they can keep going at the status quo while the rest of those around them have had to make adjustments.I have to agree with you on this one Punk. But still cannot back SB% on the few merits it currently has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Punk Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't blame anyone for voting their own self interests because I am doing the same. Hopefully my side wins and it’s just the start of fixing some of our issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted October 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't blame anyone for voting their own self interests because I am doing the same. Hopefully my side wins and it’s just the start of fixing some of our issues.+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Have a sign in my yard.....and it says "vote no for issue 2" and that is what I will be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman_343 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 Have a sign in my yard.....and it says "vote no for issue 2" and that is what I will be doing.THANK YOU!!!I've got one in my yard now, and put some out at my parents houses also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper_308 Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 THANK YOU!!!I've got one in my yard now, and put some out at my parents houses also!I'm looking for one to display in my yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniper_308 Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 I just got in from stealing signs in my neighborhood. I have a few you can borrow. No. I'm just kidding. Stealing is bad' date=' mkay?[/quote'] Hey, I thought about it. I just got back from driving around the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted October 23, 2011 Report Share Posted October 23, 2011 I have a sign in my yard. It says something about "Ron Paul 2012".. or' date=' something like that. [/quote']I like that sign too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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