idodishez Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Obviously a biased report from a liberal network. But curious to hear thoughts on this. Think any of it has any merit? NoBama 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Wow... So highly trained police ambush minimally trained kids... And this is supposed to hold some valid proof?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Practice, practice, practice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 If I put as much effort into anything as I do into eating pasta, I would be unstoppable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Get training and practice .... then get more training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidgetTodd Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Then eat pasta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-bus Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 That advanced training class that we took did wonders for me. Did it train me up to an expert? Not even close. But it showed me how underprepared I really am. Knowing what you don't know and understanding your vulnerabilities are huge steps. As for this video, although the points are valid, it exaggerated the points in an attempt to make us look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Some comments about properly training to give our brains the "been there, done that" response...From the USKMA, but applies to firearms training as well:The freeze is a common phenomena reported by those who have faced real violence….and is totally ignored by most self defense systems. It will happen! There are a couple of reasons why we “freeze”. 1) When a horrible situation happens that puts us in extreme fear for our lives our brain will work for us. If we had not trained for the attack, or had never even thought about the situation possible happening, our brain will look at the violent attack and literally scan our entire life to see if this situation had ever happened before and how we got out of it. It does this faster than any computer but it takes a few seconds. A few weeks ago we learned about mind setting. For facing real world violence mind setting is priceless. If we had planned for this encounter the plan will surface quickly. An interesting quote from Meditations of Violence by SGT Rory Miller…“The closer the events reflect previous experience, the less time it takes to orient. If the event is completely new there is nothing in the past to orient to, which explains the effectiveness of Judo in 1888, Jujutsu in America in the 1920’s, Karate in the 1950’s and BJJ in the 1990’s.” 2) Almost as bad as no training, as far as the freeze is concerned, is the wrong training. There is something called “Hick’s Law” which states that the more options you have, the longer it takes to choose one. I remember reading an advertisement for a martial art that bragged that they had 7,000 different techniques! What kind of selling point is that? If you have more than one choice in an attack your brain has to choose one! Another example of the wrong training is techniques that are too regimented. If we train a defense that has six steps and it derails at step number two we have a hard time orienting because the plan isn’t being followed as we practiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idodishez Posted December 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 As an original Indiana CHL holder, the "these folks are getting more training than most states require" did kind of ring true w me. All they require their is a Backround check and off you go. And as another poster commented, the issues of muscle training, reactions in a panic situation, etc are probably still factual, even though this "report" is just trying to make us look stupid. NoBama 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Id like to do an advanced class like this to show the fight or flight responce when dealing with an armed bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8mmDale Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Big shocker, people with little to no training fail the first time they are tested. I think by the inflection in Diane Sawyers voice, she thinks you should just be morally superior and not carry a gun. Just get shot and die, dont even try to defend yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykill Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 First scenario is BS. The gunman shoots the instructor then immediately goes after the person with the gun. No way the gunman could find and shoot the person that fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 First scenario is BS. The gunman shoots the instructor then immediately goes after the person with the gun. No way the gunman could find and shoot the person that fast.Agree on not knowing who has a gun, its made to look anti carry as well just play dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxus Christ! Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Dianne sawyer is a dirty scabby cunt. This has got to be the most biased thing I've ever seen. You can't have an agenda and call it an experiment. They set out to try and prove ccw holders will fail and filmed "evidence" to back up that claim. I want to be part of thy expeiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I love when she does the video scenario and she draws and stands still. It doesn't matter how fast you are, you will never outdraw on a bad guy. Her "scenario" proves nothing other than that she will increase the likelihood of getting shot while she stands out in the open.The CHL classes are not nearly enough training for a critical incident. The only thing they usually teach you is the rules and to make sure you can put rounds on a person sized target at 21 or so feet. You need to understand and experience tunnel vision, loss of fine motor skills, flight mode, paying attention to what's behind the threat (innocent bystanders), dealing with the noise of screams and firing, searching for cover and concealment, etc. Even the guy that had firearms training couldn't think about finding a spot of cover and to engage the threat at the same time. Having a piece of plastic or paper in your wallet doesn't mean you're gonna be worth a damn when shit hits the fan if you don't train first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newarkOhioLinks Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 They put a big loose shirt over the gun than had them put on a helmet and gloves before they had to draw! LOL, what a setup. They couldn't get their shirt up to get the gun. One thing is certain, no gun and unless you can run, you're dead. Look at their invalid concerns; The bad guy could get your gun. Doesn't he already have one? You could accidentally hit an innocent. Aren't they already getting shot at? You could get all scared and fumble. Couldn't the bad guy do fumble and give you the upper hand too? As usual, just the media trying to make themselves superior with nothing to back it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 They put a big loose shirt over the gun than had them put on a helmet and gloves before they had to draw! LOL, what a setup. They couldn't get their shirt up to get the gun. One thing is certain, no gun and unless you can run, you're dead. Look at their invalid concerns; The bad guy could get your gun. Doesn't he already have one? You could accidentally hit an innocent. Aren't they already getting shot at? You could get all scared and fumble. Couldn't the bad guy do fumble and give you the upper hand too? As usual, just the media trying to make themselves superior with nothing to back it up.Valid points again, I didn't really focus on the t-shirts being that long but saw the hesitation they were having. As for the video she demonstrated on that was a bit of a joke. For an better example replace the firearms instructor with a newb and try it that way. As always people will fall victim to what the media says about chl being a bigger threat than the attacker is complete bs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 As always people will fall victim to what the media says about chl being a bigger threat than the attacker is complete bs though.And that keeps getting proven wrong time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 And that keeps getting proven wrong time and time again.Exactly my point, like most of us know those that fear what they don't know hide behind the media but all they can saw is that if you're in a life or death situation either hide or run. Which I agree to some point if you have a chl and don't see a way out from said situation and run as well like the chl instructors told us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 It did seem like they set up the event to force a failure. The big, extra long shirts probably should not be worn when carrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I would've liked to have seen some recent combat veterans just home from the sandbox or 'Ghanistan, who'd been in some gunfights & knee deep in the shit, to have been a part of this "experiment"... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 I would've liked to have seen some recent combat veterans just home from the sandbox or 'Ghanistan, who'd been in some gunfights & knee deep in the shit, to have been a part of this "experiment"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) I would've liked to have seen some recent combat veterans just home from the sandbox or 'Ghanistan, who'd been in some gunfights & knee deep in the shit, to have been a part of this "experiment"...I bet they wouldn't have had a problem getting their weapon unholstered... Let's at least compare apples to apples here Better yet... Then they could've run the experiment both ways, & dropped the "highly trained LEO's" into an ambush situation in a sandbox simulation against the combat vets, & seen if the LEO's could get their weapons unholstered when being lit up with RPG's, roadside mines, & machine gun fire Edited December 24, 2011 by Fonzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) I bet they wouldn't have had a problem getting their weapon unholstered Unholstered? It'd be slung over their shoulder. Edited December 24, 2011 by chevysoldier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jst2fst Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Fonzie I like your idea but I doubt they would do that in fear of proving the media wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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