Cheech Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 No. Have you watched any shows like wildest police videos and seen FLIR shots? They pick up the engine and break heat but not occupant heat. The FLIR is very limited when it comes to seeing inside/under things. Heat signitures get lost in open air under trees. Through steel is not going to happen.There are quite a few models of hand-held FLIR units. I agree that using it from a chopper position would not yield enough resolution to see the guy, but I have to imagine using it from much closer and away from the main heat sources (as you can) would yield something better. If they can afford APC's, I'm sure they can pony up the cash for a few units.Scruit, as far as the tint goes, limo-ish tint is pretty standard down there. At least in south AZ, it's all over the place due to the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Just think of all the empty donut shops during those 2 hours... those cops need to keep supporting the local economy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolWhip Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 I heard about this on the radio and laughed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kawi kid Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Flame thrower. Melt the windows and they will want out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 2hours? If he had a gun he could of shot them way before he even got close with crow bar or slim Jim.Speed kills officers. It has happened on more than one occasion that a suspect has hid in a car and waited for officers to let their guard down then shoot them as the walk to the car. As far as the trunk button, my trunk doesn't open if the key isn't in the on position, and the trunk needs to be checked.There are quite a few models of hand-held FLIR units. I agree that using it from a chopper position would not yield enough resolution to see the guy, but I have to imagine using it from much closer and away from the main heat sources (as you can) would yield something better. If they can afford APC's, I'm sure they can pony up the cash for a few units.Columbus PD is the 8th largest department in the country (per our training) (I found other numbers), and we are one of the best trained and equiped departments but we don't have the money for equipment like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gump Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) What if there was a deaf, mute, retarded child in the car or someone bound and gagged and knocked out, the dog would of ate him. Edited February 17, 2012 by Gump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 What if there was a deaf, mute, retarded child in the car or someone bound and gagged and knocked out, the dog would of ate him.The dog was a tab bit overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 The dog was a tad bit overkill.ftfy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 What if there was a deaf, mute, retarded child in the car or someone bound and gagged and knocked out, the dog would have eaten him.Same reason they couldn't just chuck a tear gas canister in there - there may be an innocent in the car. Or maybe the subject is unconscious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Columbus PD is the 8th largest department in the country (per our training) (I found other numbers), and we are one of the best trained and equiped departments but we don't have the money for equipment like that.Really? That almost 2 million the CPD seized last year could have bought a lot of units. Google has the civilian handheld OMG models at about 8K, I'm guesstimating that the LEO models are at least 15. But hey, I suppose window tint meters, new ballistic shields, and an underwater comm system are stuff that you have to have when you're spending other people's seized cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Really? That almost 2 million the CPD seized last year could have bought a lot of units. Google has the civilian handheld OMG models at about 8K, I'm guesstimating that the LEO models are at least 15. But hey, I suppose window tint meters, new ballistic shields, and an underwater comm system are stuff that you have to have when you're spending other people's seized cash.Drug seizure money goto for SWAT toys only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Really? That almost 2 million the CPD seized last year could have bought a lot of units. Google has the civilian handheld OMG models at about 8K, I'm guesstimating that the LEO models are at least 15. But hey, I suppose window tint meters, new ballistic shields, and an underwater comm system are stuff that you have to have when you're spending other people's seized cash.How many would you buy? Accepting your guesstimate of $15k each, and knwing that the CPD is a little under 2k sworn officers... To give one to each officer would cost ~$30m Even one per car would be maybe half that, $15m. The 2m you quote would only supply about 133 of these FLIR units.And, when else would they be used?Wait, the officer could point it at the side of a house and detect the heat generate by tyhe grow lamps of an illegal drug operation... Then we have Penny-Feeny all over again.Wanna make a donation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 How many would you buy? Accepting your guesstimate of $15k each, and knwing that the CPD is a little under 2k sworn officers... To give one to each officer would cost ~$30m Even one per car would be maybe half that, $15m. The 2m you quote would only supply about 133 of these FLIR units.And, when else would they be used?Wait, the officer could point it at the side of a house and detect the heat generate by tyhe grow lamps of an illegal drug operation... Then we have Penny-Feeny all over again.Wanna make a donation?If it can be tied (however loosely) back to drug "enforcement", that means that a whole host of grants are now on the table to apply for and pick from. Suddenly that 2M of free money gets upped to 2.5M or possibly even higher.And seriously, all 2M goes to SWAT? According to the 2010 annual report, that went towards the following:• Garmin Nuvi 465T/1690 GPS units for Patrol supervisors• Window tint meters• Portable breath testers• Cannondale Police Enforcement Bikes• Alerte Trailblazer III police bike light and siren system• Baker Bat Shield (ballistic shield)• Saddles and harnesses• Personnel database• Adult/child and infant CPR mannequins• Microfilm reader• Flight helmets• Underwater communication system• Child identification fingerprint kitsUnless SWAT traded in their APC's for up-armored Cannondale's, I think this is going to other divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZRMatt Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 If it can be tied (however loosely) back to drug "enforcement", that means that a whole host of grants are now on the table to apply for and pick from. Suddenly that 2M of free money gets upped to 2.5M or possibly even higher.And seriously, all 2M goes to SWAT? According to the 2010 annual report, that went towards the following:• Garmin Nuvi 465T/1690 GPS units for Patrol supervisors• Window tint meters• Portable breath testers• Cannondale Police Enforcement Bikes• Alerte Trailblazer III police bike light and siren system• Baker Bat Shield (ballistic shield)• Saddles and harnesses• Personnel database• Adult/child and infant CPR mannequins• Microfilm reader• Flight helmets• Underwater communication system• Child identification fingerprint kitsUnless SWAT traded in their APC's for up-armored Cannondale's, I think this is going to other divisions.ALL drug seizure money goes to SWAT. (SWAT does include K-9) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 How many would you buy? Accepting your guesstimate of $15k each, and knwing that the CPD is a little under 2k sworn officers... To give one to each officer would cost ~$30m Even one per car would be maybe half that, $15m. The 2m you quote would only supply about 133 of these FLIR units.And, when else would they be used?Wait, the officer could point it at the side of a house and detect the heat generate by tyhe grow lamps of an illegal drug operation... Then we have Penny-Feeny all over again.Wanna make a donation?You can't just walk around checking heat signatures on houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gump Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Wonder why they didn't just look thru the windshield... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 You can't just walk around checking heat signatures on houses.According to Penny-Feeny you can.The right against unreasonable searches is based upon two facets of the expectation of privacy: 1) Does the person have a subjective expectation of privacy, and 2) Does society agree that the expectation was reasonable (objective). This is the Katz test.In penny-feeny the court held that the FLIR measures only heat escaping the house, and that the homeowners made no attempt to contain or retain that heat - it was therefore "abandoned", much in the same way as if you threw evidence in a public trash can. (in some cases the heat detected was intentionally vented) That evidence, once abandoned, is no longer your property and you no longer have an expectation of privacy over it. Thus, using a flir to detect the presence of abandoned heat is not an unreasonable search.Robinson is another case where the court upheld FLIR.http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/11th/926951opa.htmlThis technology has been challenged many times and that may have led to departmental policies against it, but I've not heard of a case where it was held to be an unreasonable search. I'm open to correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 According to Penny-Feeny you can.The right against unreasonable searches is based upon two facets of the expectation of privacy: 1) Does the person have a subjective expectation of privacy, and 2) Does society agree that the expectation was reasonable (objective). This is the Katz test.In penny-feeny the court held that the FLIR measures only heat escaping the house, and that the homeowners made no attempt to contain or retain that heat - it was therefore "abandoned", much in the same way as if you threw evidence in a public trash can. (in some cases the heat detected was intentionally vented) That evidence, once abandoned, is no longer your property and you no longer have an expectation of privacy over it. Thus, using a flir to detect the presence of abandoned heat is not an unreasonable search.Robinson is another case where the court upheld FLIR.http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=search&case=/data2/circs/11th/926951opa.htmlThis technology has been challenged many times and that may have led to departmental policies against it, but I've not heard of a case where it was held to be an unreasonable search. I'm open to correction.My understanding and what I was taught is that you cannot go door to door trying to locate heat lamps for weed growing. You need reasonable suspicion to be able to FLIR a house. I don't recall case law being cited but that's what I was taught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27 (2001), held that the use of a thermal imaging device from a public vantage point to monitor the radiation of heat from a person's home was a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, and thus required a warrant. Because the police in this case did not have a warrant, the Court reversed Kyllo's conviction for growing marijuana.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States'01.. Do you know if that is the most recent? Although being SCOTUS I can't imagine them revisiting so quickly. My cite was from '99, so you win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 '01.. Do you know if that is the most recent? Although being SCOTUS I can't imagine them revisiting so quickly. My cite was from '99, so you win. No, none more recent could I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idodishez Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Thats what they did. Then broke windows to get entry to be sure. Atleast thats what I read.Craig"SEVERAL drivers side windows". How many windows did it have? Was it a school bus?NoBama 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idodishez Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 Speed kills officers. It has happened on more than one occasion that a suspect has hid in a car and waited for officers to let their guard down then shoot them as the walk to the car. As far as the trunk button, my trunk doesn't open if the key isn't in the on position, and the trunk needs to be checked..From the pics it looks like a grand Prix. Electric release button that works anytime (well, w a good battery)NoBama 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.52de5bad1c61eb1eda62855e68043598.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.